A different gospel?

[Eleanor]

Okay. But whether we feel it our not. If you are a believer, you are always in the Almighty’s presence. You’re His child, He loves you and he knows everything about you and will never forsake you. He knows and hears what you think, what you say, what you do. Ect… ect… There is no escaping His presence. Absolutely nowhere to go

And in another vein:

There is no running from God but by running to him,
no fleeing from his justice but by fleeing to his mercy.

Only God could. . .

 

[Eleanor]

The doing? Isn’t it fruit?

Do we not grow in sanctification?

Does God give it to us all at once?
If not, what is the process?

 

[David1701]

The "doing." Man must actually do something--obey.
Not saying it is by his own power, but he still must do something, it's not all totally passive.

When a hand is in a glove, the glove "works", even though it does not contribute anything from itself to the activity.

 

[Eleanor]

When a hand is in a glove, the glove "works", even though it does not contribute anything from itself to the activity.

Nice!

 

[Ladodgers6]

Through obedience in the Holy Spirit, right?

Yes, walking in the Spirit.

 

[Arial]

That depends upon what you mean by living in the presence of God. Just being born again isn't the same thing as experiencing the living actual Presence of God all the time. I experienced that the moment I was born again but not afterwards. I really cannot speak for others on this, but I just don't think people are having experiences of God like that all the time, 24/7. Yes, the Holy Spirit indwells us and convicts us of sin, but that is very different.

Psalm 139:7 Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence?

You are confusing feelings with actuality. Confusing experience with experiences. In doing so, and it is very common thing to do, we find ourselves inadvertently depending on our feelings and experiences to gage whether or not God is with us. We forget that He hears, He sees, He knows. Everything and all the time. We forget some things about Him that we know, and start looking to ourselves to determine "where He is." It fractures our trust in HIm a bit.

 

[Arial]

Okay. But whether we feel it our not. If you are a believer, you are always in the Almighty’s presence. You’re His child, He loves you and he knows everything about you and will never forsake you. He knows and hears what you think, what you say, what you do. Ect… ect… There is no escaping His presence. Absolutely nowhere to go

Hey we are on the same page! I just said the same thing, but you beat me to it. Two or three witnesses and all.

 

[ReverendRV]

One reason I don't say a lot is because I'm a Fundamentalist. I say things in a Lowest Common Denominator way that just gets to the point...

Jesus is LORD!

 

[ReverendRV]

One reason I don't say a lot is because I'm a Fundamentalist. I say things in a Lowest Common Denominator way that just gets to the point...

Jesus is LORD!

The Salvation Equation ~ by ReverendRV * November 9

Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV; For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast

I often find people wondering what the fundamentals of the Gospel are; what is the minimum a person must believe in order to be a Christian? My study on the Gospel of Jesus Christ has led me to believe that ‘like a fraction’, there is a “lowest common denominator” wherein all the Righteous requirements of the Gospel can be rounded down to; this is the ‘Salvation Equation’. The Apostle Paul teaches us that the lowest common denominator is [Grace + Faith – Works = Salvation]. ~ But the main reason that I am writing this Gospel Tract is for those who know that the Apostle James says without Works, Faith is dead. Some use this as a reason not to believe the Bible because it seems to be an apparent contradiction! You ask, “Why would you call it an apparent contradiction, isn’t it self evident that it is a contradiction?” ~ It is not; let me explain…

Paul describes Biblical Works for us in two Verses; one in the negative “not by Works” and the other in the positive “works which we were created for”. Confusion about this is because we commit the Logical Fallacy of making a Category Mistake. Paul draws a distinction between good works and bad Works; those who are confused think there is only one category of Works. We do it all the time, an example of this is that the Bible says our personal righteousness is like a Filthy Rag. We are like a child who dusts his mother’s dining room table with his father’s grease rag; good intentions do not a good work make. Good Works are made from Faith; if they ever have their origins in the ‘not by Works’ factor, then the Bible says that Grace is no longer Grace. The Salvation Equation is irreducibly complex; like a mousetrap, remove its base and all remaining parts are useless to us. ~ Have you ever had an excuse because of a contradiction in the Bible? Then you’ve broken the first Commandment not to have another God first and foremost in your life. Having ‘no God’ puts everything before him in your life. All the good things you’ve done will never outweigh this Sin, the Bible says that our Works will be tested by fire; just how quickly will this greasy rag ignite and alight the rest of your Works?? God sends Sinners to an eternal Hell…

The works we were created for are in the Salvation Equation; but they are in its ‘Faith factor’. Having a lowest common denominator does not mean that there isn’t more to the good news of the Gospel. We are to Repent of our Sins; put God first in your life! This is done by God’s good Graces, through Faith in the risen Jesus Christ as our Savior. Through Faith, confess Christ as LORD, repent and find a Bible believing Church who will help you learn to put your Faith to work. ~ Take your Bible and read from Hebrews 11; make a list of all the verbs and put the word ‘Faith’ in front of them and you will see that indeed, Faith does work. ~ But since Biblically there is a distinction between our ‘Works’, never ever try to merit your Salvation; the Just shall live by Faith! The Prophet Isaiah said that God looks at the Works that Jesus preformed while here on Earth and is Satisfied. Jesus satisfied the Righteous requirements of the Mosaic Law for us and James knew this! That is why James taught that Faith keeps the Royal Law instead; and without those works; Faith is dead. Faith with Works is about doing right; not about being made Right…

James 2:8 KJV; If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

 

[Arial]

Is it that God is moving us to do these things and, therefore, they are monergistic?

It is God through the sanctifier, the Holy Spirit, in the process of transforming us into the image of Christ. We are told what this entails in the scriptures. When we learn from Him, by His power we are inwardly transformed more and more so that what we do "do" is in agreement with what He says. His word, changes our desires.

It is a distinction very difficult to grasp. God's sovereignty and our responsibility. We are created by Him. We are His. He is our Sovereign. The allegiance of everyone is commanded by this very positional truth, God/man, is owed to Him and Him alone. As responsible creatures, in all our being we have the responsibility to do as He says.

The only way we even want to do that or do do that is by His transforming power in us.

 

[Eleanor]

It is God through the sanctifier, the Holy Spirit, in the process of transforming us into the image of Christ. We are told what this entails in the scriptures. When we learn from Him, by His power we are inwardly transformed more and more so that what we do "do" is in agreement with what He says. His word, changes our desires.

Thanks.

So it is in appropriation of his word that we are inwardly transformed?

So we must know his word. Does that require a "doing" on our part?

It is a distinction very difficult to grasp. God's sovereignty and our responsibility.

Or is the "doing" like the glove's "doing" of @David1701 in post #443?

We are created by Him. We are His. He is our Sovereign. The allegiance of everyone is commanded by this very positional truth, God/man, is owed to Him and Him alone. As responsible creatures, in all our being we have the responsibility to do as He says.

The only way we even want to do that or do do that is by His transforming power in us.

 

[Carbon]

When a hand is in a glove, the glove "works", even though it does not contribute anything from itself to the activity.

That’s an awesome analogy!

 

[Eleanor]

That’s an awesome analogy!

Sure "put the hay out there where the goats can get it" for me.
NB: no goat here, just sheep.

 

[Arial]

So it is in appropriation of his word that we are inwardly transformed?

So we must know his word. Does that require a "doing" on our part?

That is why it is the living word---it is active. We require knowledge/information and it acts in us to bring about/produce our actions.

It is a responsibility. Responsibility implies action. Not only hearers, but doers. So you could say yes, but the doing is the result of the first cause. God in us. Our child response to a loving Father.

Or is the "doing" like the glove's "doing" of @David1701 in post #443?

Yes.

 

[Eleanor]

That’s an awesome analogy!

For me it's the difference between being the hand plugging into the power source and
just being being the glove on the hand.

Thanks, guys -- @Arial, @Carbon, @David1701, @ReverendRV.

We got 'er done!

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

That is why it is the living word---it is active. We require knowledge/information and it acts in us to bring about/produce our actions.

It is a responsibility. Responsibility implies action. Not only hearers, but doers. So you could say yes, but the doing is the result of the first cause. God in us. Our child response to a loving Father.

Yes.

When you were born again did you experience the peace of God that passes understanding?

 

[Eleanor]

When you were born again did you experience the peace of God that passes understanding?

How about a joy that made it hard to even breathe?

 

[Carbon]

How about a joy that made it hard to breathe?

Huh?

 

[David1701]

Huh?

The joy of the Lord for Jesus dying for you on the Cross; for sins forgiven; for having the light switched on inside; for deliverance from bondage; for having the best friend anyone could ever have; for mercy to such an undeserving wretch and more...

 

[Arial]

When you were born again did you experience the peace of God that passes understanding?

If knowing that at long last I had come upon the absolute truth counts as peace (and it does) then yes. But you are asking a subjective question and expecting an objective answer imo. You are asking me to use feeling, an experience, to measure a reality.