A different gospel?

[Eleanor]

I must go edit my post and caution myself to always do that before I post as what I said is exactly the opposite of what I believe. When I used the word synergistic I meant monergystic!!!

Good luck changing your post!

 

[David1701]

Nuthin' to be sorry for.

I'm asking about the "to do" in Php 2:13, which sounds synergistic rather than monergistic, as you propose.

Where is man's input in "God works in you to will and to work, for his good pleasure."? It sounds more like a hand in a glove to me.

 

[Carbon]

Nuthin' to be sorry for.

I'm asking about the "to do" in Php 2:13, which sounds synergistic rather than monergistic, as you propose.

And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. John 17:19.

The covenant of grace enforces the sanctification of the believer. "It is the eternal and immutable purpose of God," observes Dr. John Owen, "that all who are His in a peculiar manner, all whom He designs to bring unto blessedness in the everlasting enjoyment of Himself, shall, antecedently there unto, be made holy." For the security and attainment of this, all provision has been made in the everlasting covenant of grace. The very election of the believer to eternal life provides for and secures his holiness. There could not possibly be any holiness without election, because election provides the means of its attainment. Thus clearly does the Spirit of truth unfold it. 2 Thess. 2. 13: "We are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth." Again, Eph. 1. 4: "According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love." Let this be clearly understood. On the ground of no foreseen holiness in the creature, did God thus purpose to save him; but seeing the indispensable necessity of sanctification in order to eternal glory- the impossibility of the one without the other- He chose us in Christ "that we should be holy."

 

[Carbon]

Nuthin' to be sorry for.

I'm asking about the "to do" in Php 2:13, which sounds synergistic rather than monergistic, as you propose.

Through regeneration, when the Holy Spirit awakens us with a desire for holiness (Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man) because of what Christ did, aren't we sanctified by the indwelling Spirit? By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Heb 10:10.

The work the Spirit is conforming us to the image of Christ.
Christ has done a great work, salvation is of the Lord, all of it, which includes sanctification. The Spirit leads us to see sin in ourselves, the power of indwelling sin, and by doing so, the saved person is stirred unto holiness. So, through afflictions, the Spirit sanctifies the soul, deepening grace in our souls. By the power of God, we mortify the flesh.

Consider when the Spirit shows us our sins, what does it do? For the believer, it humbles us and therefore leads us to pray, to examine ourselves, drawing us closer to Christ, and by this, we advance in holiness through sanctification. The Spirit awakens us with a desire for holiness. And the more a believer is growing in Christ, the more he is growing in holiness.

This is not something we are doing, working with God synergistically for sanctification. this is God working in us conforming us to the image of Christ.

 

[Arial]

Good luck changing your post!

I got it changed.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

Through regeneration, when the Holy Spirit awakens us with a desire for holiness (Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man) because of what Christ did, aren't we sanctified by the indwelling Spirit? By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Heb 10:10.

The work the Spirit is conforming us to the image of Christ.
Christ has done a great work, salvation is of the Lord, all of it, which includes sanctification. The Spirit leads us to see sin in ourselves, the power of indwelling sin, and by doing so, the saved person is stirred unto holiness. So, through afflictions, the Spirit sanctifies the soul, deepening grace in our souls. By the power of God, we mortify the flesh.

Consider when the Spirit shows us our sins, what does it do? For the believer, it humbles us and therefore leads us to pray, to examine ourselves, drawing us closer to Christ, and by this, we advance in holiness through sanctification. The Spirit awakens us with a desire for holiness. And the more a believer is growing in Christ, the more he is growing in holiness.

This is not something we are doing, working with God synergistically for sanctification. this is God working in us conforming us to the image of Christ.

I don't believe salvation is synergistic, nor do I believe we can lose salvation. However, it says, "work out your salvation with fear and trembling. It is God that works it in you" seems to offer a picture of sanctification that is synergistic. And even though we are saved, we can still choose to sin. It's a choice. We may not want to sin, but we can.

 

[Ladodgers6]

Nuthin' to be sorry for.

I'm asking about the "to do" in Php 2:13, which sounds synergistic rather than monergistic, as you propose.

Justification & Sanctification are distinct but not separate, like two links in a chain. A sinner cannot build or perform any piety toward God, until the sinner is redeemed from sins and imputed with the righteousness of Christ, which restores and reconciliates the severed relationship between God and the sinner. Upon being Justified in Christ alone through Faith Alone apart from works. The sinner is free from the bondage of sin, buried and baptized in Christ, unto good works. The disposition of the mind and heart has changed, by the renewing of their mind in God's word and Spirit. Now we can live to God, because of Christ, doing good works is our new nature. Our relationship with God has changed with a new heart, mind, and Spirit. The gift of the Holy Spirit is conforming us everyday into the image of his Son! Which flows from our justification in Christ, which produce the fruits of the Spirit. One cannot build any piety toward God without being Justified and restored and the relationship being reconciled first. Then we can walk and do as God's children in total freedom in Christ Alone! No more curse hanging over us; no sin, death, condemnation, nor can Satan point a finger to accuse us.​

 

[Ladodgers6]

I don't believe salvation is synergistic, nor do I believe we can lose salvation. However, it says, "work out your salvation with fear and trembling. It is God that works it in you" seems to offer a picture of sanctification that is synergistic. And even though we are saved, we can still choose to sin. It's a choice. We may not want to sin, but we can.

This will clear it up. We are active in our Sanctification, because we are now alive in Christ, new creations that walk according to the Spirit, and can produce good fruits, because of our new nature. But it is the Spirit also that is conforming us to the image of his Son.

 

[Carbon]

I don't believe salvation is synergistic,

Okay.

nor do I believe we can lose salvation.

I agree

However, it says, "work out your salvation with fear and trembling. It is God that works it in you" seems to offer a picture of sanctification that is synergistic. And even though we are saved, we can still choose to sin. It's a choice. We may not want to sin, but we can.

I disagree it is synergistic. I believe it is monergistic. But let me explain.

Because we are believers, through faith we actually live in the presence of God. Don’t we?

You say above, “we may not want to sin, but we can,” And you’re right, think about the “fear and trembling”now. Living in the presence of God if we fear Him we want to submit to Him, and trembling shows how serious we should take it. Realizing God is working in you. for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. Phil 2:13.

It does not teach we should be trying so hard and trembling while trying in our own strength, or as God is working with us.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge;
fools despise wisdom and instruction. Pro 1:7.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

Okay.

I agree

I disagree it is synergistic. I believe it is monergistic. But let me explain.

Because we are believers, through faith we actually live in the presence of God. Don’t we?

You say above, “we may not want to sin, but we can,” And you’re right, think about the “fear and trembling”now. Living in the presence of God if we fear Him we want to submit to Him, and trembling shows how serious we should take it. Realizing God is working in you. for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. Phil 2:13.

It does not teach we should be trying so hard and trembling while trying in our own strength, or as God is working with us.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge;
fools despise wisdom and instruction. Pro 1:7.

That depends upon what you mean by living in the presence of God. Just being born again isn't the same thing as experiencing the living actual Presence of God all the time. I experienced that the moment I was born again but not afterwards. I really cannot speak for others on this, but I just don't think people are having experiences of God like that all the time, 24/7. Yes, the Holy Spirit indwells us and convicts us of sin, but that is very different.

 

[Carbon]

That depends upon what you mean by living in the presence of God. Just being born again isn't the same thing as experiencing the living actual Presence of God all the time. I experienced that the moment I was born again but not afterwards. I really cannot speak for others on this, but I just don't think people are having experiences of God like that all the time, 24/7. Yes, the Holy Spirit indwells us and convicts us of sin, but that is very different.

Okay. But whether we feel it our not. If you are a believer, you are always in the Almighty’s presence. You’re His child, He loves you and he knows everything about you and will never forsake you. He knows and hears what you think, what you say, what you do. Ect… ect… There is no escaping His presence. Absolutely nowhere to go

 

[Eleanor]

Justification & Sanctification are distinct but not separate, like two links in a chain.​

Thanks.

But keep in mind that justification is a forensic righteousness, a legal finding of right standing with the court; i.e., time served, free to go.
It does not impart a personal righteousness. That impartation is in the process of sanctification through obedience in the Holy Spirit
which leads to righteousness, leading to holiness (Ro 6:16, 19).

The NT presents two kinds of righteousness:
1) imputed - at justification
2) imparted - in the obedience of sanctification.

A sinner cannot build or perform any piety toward God, until the sinner is redeemed from sins and imputed with the righteousness of Christ, which restores and reconciliates the severed relationship between God and the sinner. Upon being Justified in Christ alone through Faith Alone apart from works. The sinner is free from the bondage of sin, buried and baptized in Christ, unto good works. The disposition of the mind and heart has changed, by the renewing of their mind in God's word and Spirit. Now we can live to God, because of Christ, doing good works is our new nature. Our relationship with God has changed with a new heart, mind, and Spirit. The gift of the Holy Spirit is conforming us everyday into the image of his Son! Which flows from our justification in Christ, which produce the fruits of the Spirit. One cannot build any piety toward God without being Justified and restored and the relationship being reconciled first. Then we can walk and do as God's children in total freedom in Christ Alone! No more curse hanging over us; no sin, death, condemnation, nor can Satan point a finger to accuse us.

 

[Eleanor]

Where is man's input in "God works in you to will and to work, for his good pleasure."? It sounds more like a hand in a glove to me.

The "doing." Man must actually do something--obey.
Not saying it is by his own power, but he still must do something, it's not all totally passive.

 

[Carbon]

The "doing." Man must actually do something--obey.
Not saying it is by his own power, but he still must do something, it's not all totally passive.

If a believer has no desire to live a holy life his profession would be questionable.

 

[Eleanor]

Through regeneration, when the Holy Spirit awakens us with a desire for holiness (Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man) because of what Christ did, aren't we sanctified by the indwelling Spirit? By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Heb 10:10.

Keeping in mind that sanctified = set apart (from sin, and to God).

The work the Spirit is conforming us to the image of Christ.
Christ has done a great work, salvation is of the Lord, all of it, which includes sanctification. The Spirit leads us to see sin in ourselves, the power of indwelling sin, and by doing so, the saved person is stirred unto holiness. So, through afflictions, the Spirit sanctifies the soul, deepening grace in our souls. By the power of God, we mortify the flesh.

Consider when the Spirit shows us our sins, what does it do? For the believer, it humbles us and therefore leads us to pray, to examine ourselves,

And leads us to mortification of the flesh (Ro 8:13).
And all these are doings, right?

What am I missing here?

drawing us closer to Christ, and by this, we advance in holiness through sanctification. The Spirit awakens us with a desire for holiness. And the more a believer is growing in Christ, the more he is growing in holiness.

And all of that that is "doing," right?

This is not something we are doing, working with God synergistically for sanctification. this is God working in us conforming us to the image of Christ.

Is it that God is moving us to do these things and, therefore, they are monergistic?

That synergism means without God's influence and on our own power?

Is it about the cause of our action, rather than the action itself?

 

[Ladodgers6]

Thanks.

But keep in mind that justification is a forensic righteousness, a legal finding of right standing with the court; i.e., time served, free to go.
It does not impart a personal righteousness. That impartation is in the process of sanctification through obedience in the Holy Spirit
which leads to righteousness, leading to holiness (Ro 6:16, 19).

The NT presents two kinds of righteousness:
1) imputed - at justification
2) imparted - in the obedience of sanctification.
​

Yes, exactly.

In Justification: we are declared righteous

In sanctification: we are being made righteous

 

[Eleanor]

If a believer has no desire to live a holy life his profession would be questionable.

So the doing is simply the necessary outcome of rebirth?

He doesn't ever choose not to "do"?

 

[Eleanor]

Yes, exactly.

In Justification: we are declared righteous

In sanctification: we are being made righteous

Through obedience in the Holy Spirit, right?

 

[Carbon]

So the doing is simply the necessary outcome of rebirth?

He doesn't ever choose not to "do"?

The doing? Isn’t it fruit?

 

[Eleanor]

The doing? Isn’t it fruit?

There we go!

Let me assimilate that for a while.

Thanks.