A different gospel?

[Binyawmene]

Well, Arial is praying for me here, so I'm sure I'll end up in the right place.

*Sheesh, just when I thought us Scottish people stick together.*

 

[Binyawmene]

Let me just ramble with this:

Go for it.

The remission of our sin in itself, which sin is unrighteousness, would be a moral change, as well as the change of our disposition from enemy of God to son of God.​

No actual sanctification implied.​

Atonement:

1 Peter 1:2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

Hebrews 13:12 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood[/b].

Hebrews 9:14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!

Hebrews 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Washing = cleansing of unrighteousness by the remission of our sin in its atonement.​

Washing:

Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

1 Corinthians 6:11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Ephesians 5:25-27 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

Renewal = re-impartation of God's divine eternal life within our immortal human spirit (which Adam lost in the rebellion).​

No actual sanctification implied.​

Total Depravity to Sanctification:

2 Corinthians 7:1 Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends,let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.

Ephesians 4:22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;

Colossians 3:5-9 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

So, none of the phrases above indicate an actual sanctification at regeneration.

I won't be quick to rule out Titus 3:5, but there is another verse that implies at conversion.

1 Corinthians 1:2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:

 

[Binyawmene]

Biny let me know if I am stating it as you mean here.

The initial stage is sanctified----in the sense that we are set apart to God as holy. We are holy vessels unto Him. The moment we are placed in Christ through faith. We belong to Christ, therefore are holy. Though I have to say that having been predestined to salvation there is a sense that we were always holy to God. In salvation then it is the position (yes) in God in which He begins through the Holy Spirit to conform us more and more to the image of Christ, which is God's image in which we were created. Sanctification.

Then comes truly sanctified made truly righteous at the restoration of all things. Our fallen nature is gone then and all the wicked and all wickedness including the evil one are gone.

Interesting. But that is not what is meant by initial stage.

Three stages in sanctification --

Past: a. Initial Stage (or positionally holy).​

Present: b. Progressive Stage (continuously increasing in holiness).​

Future: c. Final Stage (completion, at the coming of Christ).​

Actually, Scripture does not use the term “initial” and "positional" for sanctification. It's just soteriology terminologies. So, think of positional sanctification as standing before God: which you were already washed, cleansed, and already set apart, then God set you aside for a special purpose. Positional is referring to the past tense like "you were sanctified" that already occurred in your salvation. Sanctification goes to that particular time when you were justified by faith and saved. It is also known as "initial stage" and "past tense" equal to "we have been saved."

1 Corinthians 6:11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.​

​

1 Corinthians 1:2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:​

There is a lot of Scriptural reference, but those two verses get the idea across. While some people suggest sanctification first occurs simultaneously with justification. That is, the moment you surrender your life to Christ. Logically, justification precedes sanctification. Temporally, they occur simultaneously. After you was saved and received impartation or supernaturally created sanctification by the Holy Spirit. Then the first act of obedience is when a person decides to turn away from their sin and follow God. This decision is usually accompanied by a desire to receive God’s forgiveness from committing sin after you was recently saved. This turning away from sin is the Present: b. Progressive Stage (continuously increasing in holiness) because it is a recognition that we are sinners who need God’s forgiveness.

 

[Arial]

Interesting. But that is not what is meant by initial stage.

How is not being set apart as holy to God not a position?

Actually, Scripture does not use the term “initial” and "positional" for sanctification. It's just soteriology terminologies. So, think of positional sanctification as standing before God: which you were already washed, cleansed, and already set apart, then God set you aside for a special purpose. Positional is referring to the past tense like "you were sanctified" that already occurred in your salvation. Sanctification goes to that particular time when you were justified by faith and saved. It is also known as "initial stage" and "past tense" equal to "we have been saved."

That is of necessity a part of being a holy vessel unto God.

 

[Binyawmene]

How is not being set apart as holy to God not a position?

Sure. But the ideal is what already has taken place or that particular state that previously happen. What occurred at the beginning when the Holy Spirit sanctified and purified you, like the purification of metals, in which impurities are removed so that the metal is left pure. In the same way, your body, soul and spirit is purged of all sin in order to be made pure. And like you've said: "set apart as holy to God" is obviously positional. For example, the Ephesus and Colossae, they were already sanctified, which Paul addressed them as such is positional.

Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To God’s holy people in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Colossians 1:2 To God’s holy people in Colossae, the faithful brothers and sisters in Christ: Grace and peace to you from God our Father.​

That is of necessity a part of being a holy vessel unto God.

Yes.