Young Earth/Old Earth

[TB2]

It's just a distraction from the Gospel and focussing on supernatural phenomena instead of God. And it is used by the Catholic church to prove that the Roman Catholic Church is true. All of which, as an answer to your question, has nothing to do with the points I made about the burial cloth showing a discrepancy with the Biblical account of them. Would you like to deal with that?

I find it odd that you would argue so ardently for God's supernatural work in the here and now but then reject the possibility of the Shroud evidence. Again, don't let anti Catholic sentiment deter you. And regarding the alleged discrepancy see Post 980 above. Best

 

[GeneZ]

It would still be the glorified resurrection body

No....

Read what the Bible tells us about his ascension and then glorification.

For He was not yet glorified! Its the reason He told Mary to stop clinging to Him.
He did not want her clinging to his old way of being.

Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; ​

but go to My brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your ​

Father, and My God and your God.’” John 20:17​

In John 20:17, Jesus was still speaking from His humanity!

When glorified? When He now speaks? Its now God speaking!

grace and peace ...................

 

[TB2]

No....

Read what the Bible tells us about his ascension and then glorification.

For He was not yet glorified! Its the reason He told Mary to stop clinging to Him.
He did not want her clinging to his old way of being.

Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; ​

but go to My brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your ​

Father, and My God and your God.’” John 20:17​

In John 20:17, Jesus was still speaking from His humanity!

When glorified? When He now speaks? Its now God speaking!

grace and peace ...................

That verse is one of the most perplexing and I've seen so many different opinions on it including that Jesus is saying don't worry you don't have to hold on to me so tight I'm not leaving/ascending yet. So it's unclear what is meant. But what we do know from the gospel of Luke is that Jesus had a real body but it was supernaturally transformed and he could appear and disappear. There's also a fundamental problem with trying to say Jesus did not get a glorified resurrection body at his resurrection. When else would he get his resurrection body if not at the resurrection? Paul makes it clear in 1 Cor 15 that it is Jesus's resurrection body that is glorified and that we will receive the same. PTL

 

[GeneZ]

That verse is one of the most perplexing and I've seen so many different opinions on it including that Jesus is saying don't worry you don't have to hold on to me so tight I'm not leaving/ascending yet. So it's unclear what is meant. But what we do know from the gospel of Luke is that Jesus had a real body but it was supernaturally transformed and he could appear and disappear. There's also a fundamental problem with trying to say Jesus did not get a glorified resurrection body at his resurrection. When else would he get his resurrection body if not at the resurrection? Paul makes it clear in 1 Cor 15 that it is Jesus's resurrection body that is glorified and that we will receive the same. PTL

You are going to get different opinions.... ++

 

[CrowCross]

It's just a distraction from the Gospel and focussing on supernatural phenomena instead of God. And it is used by the Catholic church to prove that the Roman Catholic Church is true. All of which, as an answer to your question, has nothing to do with the points I made about the burial cloth showing a discrepancy with the Biblical account of them. Would you like to deal with that?

It was a serious question....sorry you didn't like it.

As for the shroud...I always thought the biblical discription of being wrapped in the burial cloth didn't mach the shroud.

 

[CrowCross]

That verse is one of the most perplexing and I've seen so many different opinions on it including that Jesus is saying don't worry you don't have to hold on to me so tight I'm not leaving/ascending yet. So it's unclear what is meant. But what we do know from the gospel of Luke is that Jesus had a real body but it was supernaturally transformed and he could appear and disappear. There's also a fundamental problem with trying to say Jesus did not get a glorified resurrection body at his resurrection. When else would he get his resurrection body if not at the resurrection? Paul makes it clear in 1 Cor 15 that it is Jesus's resurrection body that is glorified and that we will receive the same. PTL

I would tend to think Christ Jesus body was re-glorified at the resurrection...sort of.

Did Jesus have a glorified body prior to the resurrection? Something happened on the Mt. of transfiguration....if only for a short moment.

 

[TB2]

You are going to get different opinions.... ++

Yes, very true

 

[TB2]

I would tend to think Christ Jesus body was re-glorified at the resurrection...sort of.

Did Jesus have a glorified body prior to the resurrection? Something happened on the Mt. of transfiguration....if only for a short moment.

Interesting question. Thought provoking

 

[GeneZ]

Yes, very true

This is when He was glorified..

​

The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being,
sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins,
he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. So he became as much
superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs." Hebrews 1:3-4​

That was His coronation!
Then, He was glorified!

After, came Pentecost!

​

Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” ​

By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that ​

time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified." John 7:38-39​

grace and peace ..................................

 

[JIM]

That verse is one of the most perplexing and I've seen so many different opinions on it including that Jesus is saying don't worry you don't have to hold on to me so tight I'm not leaving/ascending yet. So it's unclear what is meant. But what we do know from the gospel of Luke is that Jesus had a real body but it was supernaturally transformed and he could appear and disappear. There's also a fundamental problem with trying to say Jesus did not get a glorified resurrection body at his resurrection. When else would he get his resurrection body if not at the resurrection? Paul makes it clear in 1 Cor 15 that it is Jesus's resurrection body that is glorified and that we will receive the same. PTL

There is nothing in the NT that says that Jesus' body was supernaturally transformed when He was raised from the dead after His crucifixion. His appearing and disappearing were simply more of the many, many signs wonders and miracles that He performed throughout His ministry on earth.

Also, John 17 strongly suggests that the glorification of Jesus occurred when He ascended into the presence of God (see vs 1-5). And that was to His spiritual state as He existed before His becoming a person of the earth.

There is much more to be said about this subject but all of it is surely out of place in this topic.

 

[TB2]

There is nothing in the NT that says that Jesus' body was supernaturally transformed when He was raised from the dead after His crucifixion

1 Corinthians 15 does

 

[JIM]

1 Corinthians 15 does

Please provide the passage in 1 Corinthians that you think says it does.

 

[TB2]

Please provide the passage in 1 Corinthians that you think says it does.

Read through the whole last half from about v 35 on. The whole last half is Paul answering the question what is the nature of the resurrection body.

 

[JIM]

Read through the whole last half from about v 35 on. The whole last half is Paul answering the question what is the nature of the resurrection body.

That is a discussion about us at the resurrection. Nothing there about the condition of the body of Jesus following His being raised from the tomb. And even there, our resurrection body is described as not being physical, but rather spiritual.

Notice that verse 48 distinguishes between the earthly and the heavenly, the physical and the spiritual. You should not try to mix or intermingle the two,

 

[TB2]

That is a discussion about us at the resurrection. Nothing there about the condition of the body of Jesus following His being raised from the tomb. And even there, our resurrection body is described as not being physical, but rather spiritual.

Notice that verse 48 distinguishes between the earthly and the heavenly, the physical and the spiritual. You should not try to mix or intermingle the two,

It is all patterned after Christ's resurrection body as the firstfruit (see earlier in the chapter, read in the context of the whole chapter). Paul is making an amazing claim and saying that the end time resurrection that will happen at the end of the world has already begun with the resurrection of Jesus and our bodies will be transformed from mortal to immortal like Christ's. Jesus's resurrection was not a simple reanimation or resuscitation of the mortal body like Lazarus who still died

 

[CrowCross]

It is all patterned after Christ's resurrection body as the firstfruit (see earlier in the chapter, read in the context of the whole chapter). Paul is making an amazing claim and saying that the end time resurrection that will happen at the end of the world has already begun with the resurrection of Jesus and our bodies will be transformed from mortal to immortal like Christ's. Jesus's resurrection was not a simple reanimation or resuscitation of the mortal body like Lazarus who still died

Thomas said to Jesus....HA!, you're not real.
Jesus said to Thomas...oh yeah???? Touch my scar Tommy.

 

[ReverendRV]

There is nothing in the NT that says that Jesus' body was supernaturally transformed when He was raised from the dead after His crucifixion. His appearing and disappearing were simply more of the many, many signs wonders and miracles that He performed throughout His ministry on earth.

Also, John 17 strongly suggests that the glorification of Jesus occurred when He ascended into the presence of God (see vs 1-5). And that was to His spiritual state as He existed before His becoming a person of the earth.

There is much more to be said about this subject but all of it is surely out of place in this topic.

Seth?

 

[JIM]

It is all patterned after Christ's resurrection body as the firstfruit (see earlier in the chapter, read in the context of the whole chapter). Paul is making an amazing claim and saying that the end time resurrection that will happen at the end of the world has already begun with the resurrection of Jesus and our bodies will be transformed from mortal to immortal like Christ's. Jesus's resurrection was not a simple reanimation or resuscitation of the mortal body like Lazarus who still died

I find it very interesting that in the description of Jesus "resurrection" from His tomb in Matthew 27, the Greek word used there was ἔγερσις [egersis]. Throughout the NT, when speaking of the resurrection at the end of the age when Christ returns, the Greek word use is always
ἀνάστασις [anastasis] and not ἔγερσις [egersis]. You can dismiss this difference if you like, but I think that it was intentional and significant. And while you claim that "Jesus's resurrection was not a simple reanimation or resuscitation of the mortal body like Lazarus who still died", the Greek word used in 1 Corinthians 15 discussing Jesus' "resurrection" is ἐγείρω [egeirō], which is related to ἔγερσις [egersis] and is the same word used to describe the raising of Lasarus. And in fact the word "resurrection" is never used concerning Jesus in the discussion in 1 Corinthians. Now the fact that Jesus did not die was not because He had a different kind of body, but because he was translated or ascended into heaven. It is likely that in that ascension Jesus' physical body was translated into the spiritual body He now possesses in heaven with God and which He had before He came to earth in the body of man.

But perhaps that is all just me.

 

[JIM]

Seth?

?????????

 

[TB2]

And in fact the word "resurrection" is never used concerning Jesus in the discussion in 1 Corinthians

It is the same root word "raised" throughout and Paul is clearly referring to Jesus's bodily resurrection when he cites the early Christian creed in 1 Cor 15.3-5.

Now the fact that Jesus did not die was not because He had a different kind of body, but because he was translated or ascended into heaven. It is likely that in that ascension Jesus' physical body was translated into the spiritual body He now possesses in heaven with God and which He had before He came to earth in the body of man.

What I'm saying is not meant to be controversial and is well accepted among NT scholars. Perhaps "glorification" and "exaltation" related to ascension is what you're referring to. But Jesus's resurrected body indeed a physical corporeal body and the 'same' body, but a supernaturally transformed immortal body that will never decay. The same will happen to us. Jesus is the firstfruits of the end time resurrection. We will follow suit. Our "natural" perishable mortal body will be supernaturally transformed as a "spiritual" resurrection body. "Spiritual" body does not mean soul, but literally of the Spirit--reconstituted by the Spirit. And what a day that will be Blessings