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Young Earth/Old Earth

Young Earth or Old Earth

  • Young

    Votes: 19 59.4%
  • Old

    Votes: 11 34.4%
  • Never thought about it

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I dont know

    Votes: 1 3.1%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 1 3.1%

  • Total voters
    32
Old earth. ~Younger life. ~ Eve as the youngest created life.

But by no means 13.8 billion years. IMO

Evolutionists need to come up with some incomprehensible number of years in order to confound you.
 

Agreed. The context would seem to make a regular, normal day the only possible understanding ("And there was evening and there was morning the first 'long period of time'" doesn't even make sense)
I think we can all agree that if it had been His purpose that God could have blinked and all would have come innto being without pause.

Genesis 1 has told us that in 6 days (or as I prefer creation periods) All came into existence as created. 144 hours.

But where in Genesis have we been told that this 144 hours ran consecutively? The only suggestion of this has nothing to do with the actual creation but when we get into Gen2 and the author brought up about the Sabbath.

If Genesis 2 had not been written?????????

If you look at the translation from

NASB 1995 Gen 1:5
God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
then
NASB 1995 Gen 1:8
God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

This does not say 48 hours. IT DOES SAY 2 separate days... but there is no notice that these were even in the same week. (Except if you want to add in Gen 2 Sabbath )

Even Young's Litereal Translation says about day 2 this way

Young's Literal Translation
And God calleth to the expanse 'Heavens;' and there is an evening, and there is a morning -- day second.

But not to belabor how long creation week was or may have been there is something that has bugged me for a very long time that no one... old earth or young believers has answered satisfactorily.

In Gen 1:3 Then God said, “Let there be light” on day 1. In gen 1:14 Then God said, “Let there be lights on day 4.

Light was created on day 1 then 72 hours later light again ((albeit for a different purpose) light was created again.

I...( but I am not God) , would have assumed that when creation started He knew what He wanted to accomplish by creation... or am I off base thinking this??? That it was not decision made as He went.

Why then not do the day 4 lighting on day one and then proceed with everything else?

I cannot prove this... yet... but it would make sense to me if God created light on that day one that served the purposes to light things through day 3 to be available for however long it took for these 3 days/periods to be completed with potential time between each and then as creation was advancing He then


14Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; 15and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.
and the rest of creation was completed.

Any thoughts?
 
You can deduct that because of what it says here...


“How you have fallen from heaven,
O star of the morning, son of the dawn!
You have been cut down to the earth,
You who have weakened the nations!


Prophesy goes back in time, as well as the future.
Prophets could report on what was prehistoric to the hearers.

If you don't think so? Look ate Genesis One. Moses was there?

The concept of nations did not begin with our creation....

At the fall of Adam Satan became the prince of our world.
He took right over like it was something he knew how it was to be done.
Would you be in the camp that the fossil record was a result of the destruction of a pre-Adamic world?
 
Correct. Creation International still has a negative take, but advise against saying there are no transitional fossils. It's one thing to say there are fewer transitional forms than Darwin predicted (true statement), it's quite another to say there are no transitional fossils at all (false statement). The latter statement can no longer be maintained, because we literally have fossils intermediate between that have been discovered that were unknown before; like Tiktaalik, which has *both* fish and tetrapod traits.
They do not say that there are fewer transitional fossils than predicted, they say that there is only a handful of disputed examples. In other words, no clear examples at all.

Here is a link to numerous articles debunking Tiktaalik as an alleged "transitional fossil".

 
I think we can all agree that if it had been His purpose that God could have blinked and all would have come innto being without pause.

Genesis 1 has told us that in 6 days (or as I prefer creation periods) All came into existence as created. 144 hours.

But where in Genesis have we been told that this 144 hours ran consecutively? The only suggestion of this has nothing to do with the actual creation but when we get into Gen2 and the author brought up about the Sabbath.

If Genesis 2 had not been written?????????

If you look at the translation from

NASB 1995 Gen 1:5
God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

then
NASB 1995 Gen 1:8
God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

This does not say 48 hours. IT DOES SAY 2 separate days... but there is no notice that these were even in the same week. (Except if you want to add in Gen 2 Sabbath )

Even Young's Litereal Translation says about day 2 this way

Young's Literal Translation
And God calleth to the expanse 'Heavens;' and there is an evening, and there is a morning -- day second.

But not to belabor how long creation week was or may have been there is something that has bugged me for a very long time that no one... old earth or young believers has answered satisfactorily.

In Gen 1:3 Then God said, “Let there be light” on day 1. In gen 1:14 Then God said, “Let there be lights on day 4.

Light was created on day 1 then 72 hours later light again ((albeit for a different purpose) light was created again.

I...( but I am not God) , would have assumed that when creation started He knew what He wanted to accomplish by creation... or am I off base thinking this??? That it was not decision made as He went.

Why then not do the day 4 lighting on day one and then proceed with everything else?

I cannot prove this... yet... but it would make sense to me if God created light on that day one that served the purposes to light things through day 3 to be available for however long it took for these 3 days/periods to be completed with potential time between each and then as creation was advancing He then


and the rest of creation was completed.

Any thoughts?
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth and the sea and all that is in them, but on the seventh day He rested. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy.
 
Would you be in the camp that the fossil record was a result of the destruction of a pre-Adamic world?


It only makes sense that way.....
 
Do you believe that Adam and Eve evolved from ape like creatures that preceded them or do you believe they were a special creation?
I believe all attempts to try to harmonize modern science and Scripture commit the error of anachronism by reading back a foreign understanding into the Bible. I believe we must always try to follow standard principles of biblical hermeneutics, meaning interpreting in the proper historical context (which for Genesis 1 is the Ancient Near East).

In short, "what would this verse/passage have meant to them at the time?" If it is an interpretation that the original intended audience would not have come up with, then that can't be the correct interpretation. For example, Jeremiah 10 can't be referring to Christmas trees before there was such a thing as Christmas (that's anachronistic), nor would the intended audience have understood it that way. "Let there be light" can't be a reference to modern cosmology's 'Big Bang Theory." The original intended audience would never think that's what Gen 1.3 is trying to communicate, so that can't be the correct interpretation.

Modern science is a relatively recent development, and our society puts great value in science, so naturally we would like Genesis to answer and accord with modern science, but we can't read Genesis 1 through that lens (that's anachronistic). We must first seek to understand what it would have meant back then, and then we can see how it applies to today.

When we do this we find Genesis 1-3 has little to none to do with modern science. Genesis 1 has more in common with Egyptian pagan creation myths, and indeed reads like a point-to-point refutation of Egyptian pagan beliefs (See, "Scientific Concordism vs Divine Accommodation").

We also see that Genesis presents a prescientific view of the cosmos. The 'sky' is a solid structure that the sun, moon, and stars are afixed to/embedded "in" below the "waters above" that were the source of rain for Noah's Flood (Genesis 1 effectively locates the sun, moon, and stars in Earth's 'atmosphere'.). The only way I see to maintain the doctrine of inspiration (which I certainly do believe) is some form of Divine Accommodation (since Scientific Concordism doesn't work) (Again, see, "Scientific Concordism vs Divine Accommodation").

So as a scientist, I actually have a strict keep-science-out-of-Scripture policy, because that is anachronistic and results in interpretive errors. We have to interpret Scripture on Scripture's terms. So, I always compartmentalize and separate the two: what does science say, what does Scripture say, independent of one another? I try to be as fair and honest as I can when answering that question.

Having said that I can now answer your question as follows:

(1) Scientific evidence indicates beyond a reasonable doubt that humans-primates share a common ancestor.

(2) Scripture does not teach that Adam & Eve evolved from primate ancestors.

(3) I don't know how to harmonize science and Scripture, but if Genesis never intended to give us a modern scientific account (which seems it doesn't, because a prescientific view is presented), then any apparent 'conflict' should not concern us. Importantly, it doesn't change the theological truth (and reality of fact) of the Fall one way or the other. It is also worth noting that Genesis 2-3 combines elements of *both* poetry and prose, and both 'historical' and symbolic elements (it is not either or, but both that we see).

That doesn't mean it's not true. It simply means that common Ancient Near East symbols and motifs and even priestly language are used to represent and communicate a real, historical Fall of humanity. There is much symbolism related to the Tabernacle/Temple. The Hebrew words used to describe Adam's garden tending function are the same used of the Levitical priests, and the gemstones include those on the priest's breastplate. The genealogy in Genesis 5 tells us that Adam and Eve are meant to be seen as real, historical people. But Adam and Eve are also uniquely Hebrew names and so that can't be their actual names (Hebrew didn't exist until after the flood), and their names are symbolic, representative of all humanity. It's like if we were talking about two literal, real, historical people and said "His name is Man, and her name is Woman." That is what we see with the names Adam and Eve. So Genesis is clearly talking about real people, but at the same time also presenting Adam and Eve as representative of all humanity.

I think where we err (today) is in our rigid modern age literal fact OR nonliteral fiction conditioning of the modern age. That false dichotomy overlooks the fact that 'historical narrative' can include exaggerated figures of speech (like we see in Joshua's Conquests), or how poetry can be about literal history (like we see with the biblical songs about the Exodus). Genesis 1 has elements of both poetry and prose, too.

I wish I could articulate it better (and feel like I'm starting to ramble and go far afield of your question), but for what it's worth, all the science vs Scripture talk seems to "miss the point" of what Scripture is really trying to say. We could harmonize science and Scripture and still miss the point of Genesis 1-3 entirely. God just doesn't seem to share our modern concerns (about having factual knowledge), but seems more concerned about communicating who He is and where we stand in relation to Him personally. Whether you agree or disagree, hopefully I still at least made sense with what I'm trying to convey. If not I will attempt to clarify.
 
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The asteroid impact is still the leading theory with the most supporting evidence

Agreed. The context would seem to make a regular, normal day the only possible understanding ("And there was evening and there was morning the first 'long period of time'" doesn't even make sense)

Only if Genesis 1 was meant to give us scientific information on the subject, which I don’t think it was. (See, "Scientific Concordism vs Divine Accommodation")

The last NOVA I saw on the asteroid impact theory was nonsense. They showed some naturally-exposed bank out in the West US with one black line layer across it and said 'see the nice little impact moment? Nothing happened before or after that for millions of years!' The same people see no coalescence of hydrologic activity that is known in cultures all over the world as the cataclysm. They splinter and fragment everything they see into small local cataclysms, and then write books that give them 50% margins of error ('this event took place 150-300K ago'). I don't even know of one asteroid theory that results in major hydrologic activity, but maybe TB2 does. How does that happen? It's all about fragmenting and minimizing so that nothing sounds like Genesis or Psalm 104 or Christ or 2 Peter 3. Like NASA, when it was upset with Velikovsky for referencing ancient accounts that might support 'worlds in collision,' they had to eat crow when he was right about Jupiter being 'hot.' So they just dismissed him as a kook. (Even though he didn't connect his collision with global hydrologic activity, which was his flaw, I think).

On YEC, the title is a bit obsolete. There should be a RCW (Recent Creation Week) position. This means the materials (the water, the molten or stone mass) might have been there a while, but the creation week of Genesis is still recent and that all life forms are thriving and complete from the first moment mentioned. The duration of time of the materials is not as important as what was going on: Tohu wa-bohu refers to a place after it has undergone the wrath of God, Jer. 4:23. We must accept that there has been other activity going on in the universe, before we were created. The pre-cataclysm world of artefacts is full of things far beyond today's human powers, similar to Hobbits humble position relative to Elves.
 
The last NOVA I saw on the asteroid impact theory was nonsense
The evidence is strong for the asteroid impact and established beyond a reasonable doubt. Even the impact crater location has been identified.
 
Evolutionists need to come up with some incomprehensible number of years in order to confound you
Evolutionists don't actually come up with the dates. Geochronology is an entirely separate field from evolutionary biology
 
I believe all attempts to try to harmonize modern science and Scripture commit the error of anachronism by reading back a foreign understanding into the Bible. I believe we must always try to follow standard principles of biblical hermeneutics, meaning interpreting in the proper historical context (which for Genesis 1 is the Ancient Near East).

In short, "what would this verse/passage have meant to them at the time?" If it is an interpretation that the original intended audience would not have come up with, then that can't be the correct interpretation. For example, Jeremiah 10 can't be referring to Christmas trees before there was such a thing as Christmas (that's anachronistic), nor would the intended audience have understood it that way. "Let there be light" can't be a reference to modern cosmology's 'Big Bang Theory." The original intended audience would never think that's what Gen 1.3 is trying to communicate, so that can't be the correct interpretation.

Modern science is a relatively recent development, and our society puts great value in science, so naturally we would like Genesis to answer and accord with modern science, but we can't read Genesis 1 through that lens (that's anachronistic). We must first seek to understand what it would have meant back then, and then we can see how it applies to today.

When we do this we find Genesis 1-3 has little to none to do with modern science. Genesis 1 has more in common with Egyptian pagan creation myths, and indeed reads like a point-to-point refutation of Egyptian pagan beliefs (See, "Scientific Concordism vs Divine Accommodation").

We also see that Genesis presents a prescientific view of the cosmos. The 'sky' is a solid structure that the sun, moon, and stars are afixed to/embedded "in" below the "waters above" that were the source of rain for Noah's Flood (Genesis 1 effectively locates the sun, moon, and stars in Earth's 'atmosphere'.). The only way I see to maintain the doctrine of inspiration (which I certainly do believe) is some form of Divine Accommodation (since Scientific Concordism doesn't work) (Again, see, "Scientific Concordism vs Divine Accommodation").

I do not see Genesis in any passage saying anything anti-scientific. When it refers to the circle of the earth, for example, or pillars at the edges of the compass, this is not literal language but it isn't science either. The point is that it isn't non-scientific, which is what Atheists try to make it. Christians shouldn't do that.

So as a scientist, I actually have a strict keep-science-out-of-Scripture policy, because that is anachronistic and results in interpretive errors. We have to interpret Scripture on Scripture's terms. So, I always compartmentalize and separate the two: what does science say, what does Scripture say, independent of one another? I try to be as fair and honest as I can when answering that question.

Having said that I can now answer your question as follows:

(1) Scientific evidence indicates beyond a reasonable doubt that humans-primates share a common ancestor.

In my studies so far, I have not seen any evidence for your point (1). I have seen interpretations of DNA where similarity in the varieties of life on the earth have been correlated to make it look like it supports the theory of evolution. But that's all.


(2) Scripture does not teach that Adam & Eve evolved from primate ancestors.

(3) I don't know how to harmonize science and Scripture, but if Genesis never intended to give us a modern scientific account (which seems it doesn't, because a prescientific view is presented), then any apparent 'conflict' should not concern us. Importantly, it doesn't change the theological truth (and reality of fact) of the Fall one way or the other. It is also worth noting that Genesis 2-3 combines elements of *both* poetry and prose, and both 'historical' and symbolic elements (it is not either or, but both that we see).

I think you just contradicted yourself. You are saying that science says Genesis is scientifically WRONG, that humans have pre-Adam ape like ancestors, and that this doesn't bear on the Fall at all. You cannot reconcile these things because they are contradictions. They only way it is possible is to consider that Adam and Eve are special creations of God ex nihilo. God has obviously patterned all the plants, vegetables, creatures in sea and land with lots of similarity. But correlation is not causation. Just because you are 50% genetical with a banana does not mean the human body comes from a banana. That's just a failure of basic logic.
That doesn't mean it's not true. It simply means that common Ancient Near East symbols and motifs and even priestly language are used to represent and communicate a real, historical Fall of humanity. There is much symbolism related to the Tabernacle/Temple. The Hebrew words used to describe Adam's garden tending function are the same used of the Levitical priests, and the gemstones include those on the priest's breastplate. The genealogy in Genesis 5 tells us that Adam and Eve are meant to be seen as real, historical people. But Adam and Eve are also uniquely Hebrew names and so that can't be their actual names (Hebrew didn't exist until after the flood), and their names are symbolic, representative of all humanity. It's like if we were talking about two literal, real, historical people and said "His name is Man, and her name is Woman." That is what we see with the names Adam and Eve. So Genesis is clearly talking about real people, but at the same time also presenting Adam and Eve as representative of all humanity.

I think where we err (today) is in our rigid modern age literal fact OR nonliteral fiction conditioning of the modern age. That false dichotomy overlooks the fact that 'historical narrative' can include exaggerated figures of speech (like we see in Joshua's Conquests), or how poetry can be about literal history (like we see with the biblical songs about the Exodus). Genesis 1 has elements of both poetry and prose, too.

I wish I could articulate it better (and feel like I'm starting to ramble and go far afield of your question), but for what it's worth, all the science vs Scripture talk seems to "miss the point" of what Scripture is really trying to say. We could harmonize science and Scripture and still miss the point if Genesis 1-3 entirely. God just doesn't seem to share our modern concerns (about having factual knowledge), but seems more concerned about communicating who He is and where we stand in relation to Him personally. Whether you agree or disagree, hopefully I still at least made sense with what I'm trying to convey. If not I will attempt to clarify.
 
The evidence is strong for the asteroid impact and established beyond a reasonable doubt. Even the impact crater location has been identified.

Yes I have seen that, and then they proceed to explain almost no effect on animal life. IOW, the whole process that they just celebrated now (spontaneous naturalistic evolutionary orgins) has to be rethought in brand new chemical/radiological conditions (if the thing was as big as the Caribbean basin).

God to the scientists: 'show me what you mean; make life'
The scientists: 'well, we'd need a stone in space, water, some materials.'
God: 'I don't think you've quite got the idea; you have to come up with all those, too.'


Well, in the asteroid theory, you would have 'make-life-2.0.' When Krakatoa blew, there were 2 years of red sunsets in London. People closed windows rather than have layers of dust to clean each day. Why would a Carribbean-sized asteroid impact that ended dinosaurs have less than that ? If dinos continued elsewhere, then there is no real issue and they should be here today. I get the feeling these people live in a lab and have very little contact with real life, instincts, intuitions.

So this 'beyond doubt' stuff cracks me up as intellectual dishonesty.
 
I do not see Genesis in any passage saying anything anti-scientific. When it refers to the circle of the earth, for example, or pillars at the edges of the compass, this is not literal language but it isn't science either. The point is that it isn't non-scientific, which is what Atheists try to make it. Christians shouldn't do that.
It is not atheist but actual long time historical views the church held (based on Genesis) that today we recognize as scientifically inaccurate. See here for an example from Martin Luther.
In my studies so far, I have not seen any evidence for your point (1). I have seen interpretations of DNA where similarity in the varieties of life on the earth have been correlated to make it look like it supports the theory of evolution. But that's all
See the link I gave: Scientific evidence indicates beyond a reasonable doubt that humans-primates share a common ancestor.
I think you just contradicted yourself. You are saying that science says Genesis is scientifically WRONG, that humans have pre-Adam ape like ancestors, and that this doesn't bear on the Fall at all. You cannot reconcile these things because they are contradictions
I am saying modern science and Scripture are apples and oranges that have little to do with each other and speak to different questions; questions that Genesis is not actually concerned with or concerned in answering to satisfy our modern interests and curiosities. By trying to make Genesis about science, we completely misunderstanding what it teaches.
 
Yes I have seen that, and then they proceed to explain almost no effect on animal life. IOW, the whole process that they just celebrated now (spontaneous naturalistic evolutionary orgins) has to be rethought in brand new chemical/radiological conditions (if the thing was as big as the Caribbean basin).

God to the scientists: 'show me what you mean; make life'
The scientists: 'well, we'd need a stone in space, water, some materials.'
God: 'I don't think you've quite got the idea; you have to come up with all those, too.'


Well, in the asteroid theory, you would have 'make-life-2.0.' When Krakatoa blew, there were 2 years of red sunsets in London. People closed windows rather than have layers of dust to clean each day. Why would a Carribbean-sized asteroid impact that ended dinosaurs have less than that ? If dinos continued elsewhere, then there is no real issue and they should be here today. I get the feeling these people live in a lab and have very little contact with real life, instincts, intuitions.

So this 'beyond doubt' stuff cracks me up as intellectual dishonesty.
You seem unaware of the evidence. The impact crater has been located. The iridium rich layer produced worldwide as a result of the that impact varies in thickness concentrically with distance from the impact crater. Non-avian dinosaurs did not survive. Other animals did.

The origin of life is a separate problem (and remains the weak link NOT in 'evolutionary biology' but in metaphysical naturalism/atheism).
 
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It is not atheist but actual long time historical views the church held (based on Genesis) that today we recognize as scientifically inaccurate. See here for an example from Martin Luther.
I didn't say it was atheist though. I said they use the same arguments. At least, that is what I meant. As for your post on Luther, it's riddled with inaccuracies all the way through. Luther did not define the Firmament, he simply said the heavenly bodies reside in water outside of it and warned people not to read more into it than it needed to be. Next is shown a picture made in the middle ages of a cover to one of Luther's books that probably has nothing to do with him. And so on for the rest of the articles and dictionary definitions that were given.
See the link I gave: Scientific evidence indicates beyond a reasonable doubt that humans-primates share a common ancestor.

I am saying modern science and Scripture are apples and oranges that have little to do with each other and speak to different questions; questions that Genesis is not actually concerned with or concerned in answering to satisfy our modern interests and curiosities. By trying to make Genesis about science, we completely misunderstanding what it teaches.
I do not see any extensive scientific evidence for common ancestors in your presentation. I see a few pictures with explanations that claim to be true, but not any actual real science that explains the origin of life or how it developed beyond all life forms having similarity. Correlation is not causation, as I said before.

I know you are saying you cannot reconcile your scientific understanding with Genesis. I don't so much care for that in a debate about evolution. (I know that sounds callous and icy, but I'm trying not to go beyond the bounds of this discussion).
 
I do not see Genesis in any passage saying anything anti-scientific. When it refers to the circle of the earth, for example, or pillars at the edges of the compass, this is not literal language but it isn't science either. The point is that it isn't non-scientific, which is what Atheists try to make it. Christians shouldn't do that.



In my studies so far, I have not seen any evidence for your point (1). I have seen interpretations of DNA where similarity in the varieties of life on the earth have been correlated to make it look like it supports the theory of evolution. But that's all.




I think you just contradicted yourself. You are saying that science says Genesis is scientifically WRONG, that humans have pre-Adam ape like ancestors, and that this doesn't bear on the Fall at all. You cannot reconcile these things because they are contradictions. They only way it is possible is to consider that Adam and Eve are special creations of God ex nihilo. God has obviously patterned all the plants, vegetables, creatures in sea and land with lots of similarity. But correlation is not causation. Just because you are 50% genetical with a banana does not mean the human body comes from a banana. That's just a failure of basic logic.

I have heard the similarity of design argument many times, but this is not applied to other things like trees. Humans resemble trees more than bears in some ways. "I see men like trees walking" the just-healed blind person uttered.

Also I have yet to hear why the evolve-thinking of biological life would go in the useless direction of humans. Top-heaviness? Failure to have 4 limbs for running? Even kangaroos have another level of uselessness in the upper body: the forearms do nothing all life long, but help the joey pull himself out of the mother's pouch.

Lyell compartmentalized and said pastors should not be physico-theologians--those finding links between God's revelation and nature. But it is OK to be a physico-pantheist where there are links between nature and evolve-thinking. (In an extensive exchange with a European biologist, I realized this is what he was saying all through--that 'nature' can think of ways to add limbs, muscles, tools by 'thinking/willing' them into existence. It was how he escaped the problem of divine design.)

Dr. Schaeffer spoke of this in HE IS THERE AND HE IS NOT SILENT in ch 1 I think, "The Problem of Being" (existence) when referring to pan-everything-ism, where the person/thinker avoids the necessity of clarifying whether God is person and infinite by the illusion of removing the "theo-" (Greek for God) part of the word, and deriving personhood and significance from Natural processes. (I'm capitalizing the N because of Lewis' comments on this about naturalism; that there is a point at which it starts supplying what Christian doctrine and understanding once did, yet says it is only about little n nature.)
 
I have heard the similarity of design argument many times, but this is not applied to other things like trees. Humans resemble trees more than bears in some ways. "I see men like trees walking" the just-healed blind person uttered.

Also I have yet to hear why the evolve-thinking of biological life would go in the useless direction of humans. Top-heaviness? Failure to have 4 limbs for running? Even kangaroos have another level of uselessness in the upper body: the forearms do nothing all life long, but help the joey pull himself out of the mother's pouch.

Lyell compartmentalized and said pastors should not be physico-theologians--those finding links between God's revelation and nature. But it is OK to be a physico-pantheist where there are links between nature and evolve-thinking. (In an extensive exchange with a European biologist, I realized this is what he was saying all through--that 'nature' can think of ways to add limbs, muscles, tools by 'thinking/willing' them into existence. It was how he escaped the problem of divine design.)

Dr. Schaeffer spoke of this in HE IS THERE AND HE IS NOT SILENT in ch 1 I think, "The Problem of Being" (existence) when referring to pan-everything-ism, where the person/thinker avoids the necessity of clarifying whether God is person and infinite by the illusion of removing the "theo-" (Greek for God) part of the word, and deriving personhood and significance from Natural processes. (I'm capitalizing the N because of Lewis' comments on this about naturalism; that there is a point at which it starts supplying what Christian doctrine and understanding once did, yet says it is only about little n nature.)
The similarity of design is applied to trees too.
 
I do not see any extensive scientific evidence for common ancestors in your presentation. I see a few pictures with explanations that claim to be true
Sounds like you didn't read in depth (much less rebut). The same probability arguments we use against a naturalistic origin of life support human-primate common ancestry. If we recognize one we must recognize the other to avoid special pleading
but not any actual real science that explains the origin of life or how it developed beyond all life forms having similarity
That's a different topic than humans-primates common ancestry. Our current scientific evidence suggests that life can NOT emerge naturally from nonlife (See, 'Paradoxes in the Origin of Life).
And so on for the rest of the articles and dictionary definitions that were given.
I'm afraid we can't hand wave the lexical definitions away. Regardless of Martin Luther's views, the Masoretic and Septuagint teach that on Day 2 God created some type of solid support structure 'firmament' (raqia/stereoma) in the midst of the waters to separate the waters and then on Day 4 set the sun, moon, and stars "in" this firmament *below* the rainwater source for Noah's Flood.
 
If the Greek cosmology referred to the Chasm before the earth, why should we disconnect the great deep of Genesis from the other comparative references to 'the deep' as in the Enuma Elish etc. (The Chasm seems to have meant simply that we are alone and a vast distance from the next nearest object). I don't think that any of the 'big' terms of these accounts are arbitrary or fantasy; that they are onto a true question, though mistaken answer. The NW native accounts that refer to the Creator speaking things into existence have a logic to them: that there are no lesser forms to these things to develop from; they were instantly at the completed, thriving level that we see today and see reproduced today. Other options are unthinkable. This is what Lewis referred to as 'natural' miracles--the wonder that anything has instinct and sense and equipment (working body parts) that are a working form of life instead of a train wreck. The protective quills of a porcupine would natural; they would have been created by God for the duration of the species; they could not be 'evolve-thought' into existence. A 'supernatural' miracle would be to abridge the same laws and have a virgin conceive.
 
Other options are unthinkable. This is what Lewis referred to as 'natural' miracles--the wonder that anything has instinct and sense and equipment (working body parts) that are a working form of life instead of a train wreck. The protective quills of a porcupine would natural; they would have been created by God for the duration of the species; they could not be 'evolve-thought' into existence
But see, these are all modern philosophical questions and concerns (arguments from design, teleology, etc) that are foreign to the Ancient Near East context of Genesis 1, which hermeneutically is the proper way to interpret Genesis. As much as we want it to, Genesis doesn't speak to these questions. In fact, there was no conception of naturalism vs supernaturalism. Even as believers we recognize a difference between natural vs supernatural. That is a completely foreign understanding of Genesis 1 in ancient Bible times when *everything* was supernatural. There was no such thing as the modern naturalist-supernaturalist dichotomy that we have today.
 
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