Young Earth/Old Earth

[Carbon]

Well, they didn't. All insects came after the fall. There ain't no way them pesky little jerks lived in the garden!

Oh, and fly swatters are proof of a fallen world.

Darn fly swatter, I was hoping you wouldn't mention that.

If I eat a tomato did I murder it, or just kill it?

Depends. Do you like tomatoes?

Oh, and Romans 5 teaches death came due to or via sin.

Yes, it does.

I think you all are missing something but, go ahead.

 

[civic]

Darn fly swatter, I was hoping you wouldn't mention that.

Depends. Do you like tomatoes?

Yes, it does.

I think you all are missing something but, go ahead.

we think you are missing something

 

[Carbon]

No YEC have death after sin / the fall with animals not before.

Your saying YEC doesn't have death after sin?

 

[Carbon]

we think you are missing something

I'm sure youse doos

 

[Deleted member 6]

I disagree. I find it hard to believe that Adam or Eve didn't step on an insect and obviously they ate plants. And if you were to see the microscopic life on a plant, wow.

But you’re speculating here. The Bible says death came by sin.

 

[Carbon]

While you are being undecided you might consider pondering these things

Luke 3:23-38
Acts 17:26
Romans 5:12-21
1 Timothy 2:11-14

Hope you don't mind if I steal just one of your verses for now? No? Okay, thank you.

12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men[a] because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

18 Therefore, as one trespass[b] led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness[c] leads to justification and life for all men. 19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. 20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 5:12-19.

Just so you all don't think I am denying the truth. . 12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—
This verse addresses death through sin, not death in general. God created all sorts of life on planet Earth, but there is only one kind that was capable of sin, - humans.
Verse 12 tells us when death came to humans, not of plants and animals. Look for yourself - death spread to all men because all sinned—

So, if this be the case, why so much against dinosaurs millions of years ago?

 

[civic]

Your saying YEC doesn't have death after sin?

yes its after sin just the opposite of old earth having the death of animals before sin.

 

[Carbon]

But you’re speculating here. The Bible says death came by sin.

And it did. Human death.

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

 

[civic]

Except for the fact that the creation itself was cursed as well as mankind, so it wasn't limited only to man. Romans 8:20 &c.

bingo !

 

[Deleted member 6]

And it did. Human death.

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

But we don’t know that status of animals pre-fall, nor how long Adam and Eve lived in the Garden pre-fall. Personally, and I’m speculating here as well, I don’t think it was a real long time. How long, I have no clue.

 

[Carbon]

Except for the fact that the creation itself was cursed as well as mankind, so it wasn't limited only to man. Romans 8:20 &c.

So, when Adam and Eve ate plants, the plant did not die.

This another extra-biblical thingy?

 

[Carbon]

bingo !

Golly Gee, were playing Bingo? Now you tell me.

 

[Carbon]

But we don’t know that status of animals pre-fall, nor how long Adam and Eve lived in the Garden pre-fall. Personally, and I’m speculating here as well, I don’t think it was a real long time. How long, I have no clue.

Well, he named all the animals, his rib was removed, ect... And you claim it was a 24-hour period on day six. I'd say that's quite long enough to kill many insects and a plant or two. Even murder a couple of tomatoes.

 

[Carbon]

I hear Rod Serling, he's heading in.

 

[civic]

 

[Carbon]

Just so you all know. I would really appreciate it if you all would get me off this OEC thing, I would like to believe an YEC as I have for the first 20 or so years as a believer. I'm not debating you all as your wrong. I'm telling you what I believe and why. and no opffence, but so far none of you all are doing very good. Sorry.

 

[civic]

Just so you all know. I would really appreciate it if you all would get me off this OEC thing, I would like to believe an YEC as I have for the first 20 or so years as a believer. I'm not debating you all as your wrong. I'm telling you what I believe and why. and no opffence, but so far none of you all are doing very good. Sorry.

You are quite the comedian brother

 

[civic]

Just so you all know. I would really appreciate it if you all would get me off this OEC thing, I would like to believe an YEC as I have for the first 20 or so years as a believer. I'm not debating you all as your wrong. I'm telling you what I believe and why. and no opffence, but so far none of you all are doing very good. Sorry.

This should help let me know if you need more scriptures saying the same thing that thet are literal 24 hour days just like our work week.

Exodus 20:11
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.


Exodus 31:12-17
12 Then the Lord said to Moses, 13 "Say to the Israelites, 'You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.14 "'Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people. 15 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. 16 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. 17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.'"

Exodus 16:26
Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the sabbath, there will be none.”

Exodus 34:21
“You shall work six days, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during plowing time and harvest you shall rest.

Exodus 24:16
The glory of the Lord rested on Mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it for six days; and on the seventh day He called to Moses from the midst of the cloud.

Leviticus 23:3
‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.

Luke 13:14
But the synagogue official, indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, began saying to the crowd in response, “There are six days in which work should be done; so come during them and get healed, and not on the Sabbath day.”

Hebrews 4:4
For somewhere He has spoken about the seventh day in this manner: "And on the seventh day God rested from all His works."


In Genesis 1 the word for day which is qualified by a number and the phrase “evening and morning” and for Day 1 the words light and darkness it means an ordinary day (a 24 hour period of time). It’s the same meaning today for a 24 hour period of time. Every time we read in Scripture the word day followed by a number, day and night or evening and morning in means a literal 24 hour period.

 

[Carbon]

You are quite the comedian brother

Thanks. I know you're being nice.

But honestly, you guys are unable to prove anything. Been there. That's why I am undecided. But I do lean towards an OEC

 

[Carbon]

I disagree on Biblical terms, and we can argue hypotheses til kingdom come. But I won't, I'm Sola Scriptura.

Death and corruption for all creation came via Adams sin, which entailed the curse not only upon mankind, but on all that God made in creation. That's Romans 5 and Romans 8.

Consuming vegetation isn't murder of plants, nor is it death.

If plants are meant for food, of course, it's not murder. Death isn't always murder.

Guess we are just going to have to (oh I hate this saying from Wesley) agree to disagree, for now.

For the record. I am not telling you your wrong brother.