Who invented the invitation system?

[Carbon]

Before Charles Finney, I do not believe there was an invitation system.
Finney was credited with winning around 500,000 souls before the Civil War. After him we had Moody and finally Billy Graham. The world's system has really taken over most of the Church.


The Bible does not teach an invitation system. If someone believes it does, then please, show the teaching.


John 3:3 teaches the natural man cannot even see the kingdom of God, so how could he accept an invitation?


If a natural man cannot receive the things of God, how can he receive Jesus? 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2.

Maybe we can go back further than Charles Finney, a lot further actually.
Remember the devil and his words? For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Gen 3:5.

An invitation system presents the same lie. It's telling you, that you are not really dead, you have free will to choose God and life, it's your decision (decisional regeneration), you can choose life.


Thoughts?

 

[fastfredy0]

The Bible does not teach an invitation system. If someone believes it does, then please, show the teaching.

Well, faith cometh by hearing which is an implied invitation. You probably are referring to a more formal invitation.

An invitation system presents the same lie. It's telling you, that you are not really dead, you have free will to choose God and life, it's your decision (decisional regeneration), you can choose life.


Thoughts?

I'm in general agreement. Might be nice to point to exact time you assumed you were saved. Not like it is impossible to be regenerated at moment Billy Graham makes a call .... seemed to work the way when 3,000 suddenly converted shortly after Christ's death (I may have that fact distorted, too lazy to double check... something like that ... Acts 2:1-41 google says)

I took son to see Billy Graham in Dallas .... George Bush Sr. showed up but it wasn't advertised that he would be there

Bedtime...night

 

[Carbon]

Well, faith cometh by hearing which is an implied invitation. You probably are referring to a more formal invitation.

Well sure, after regeneration of course.

 

[Carbon]

Well, faith cometh by hearing which is an implied invitation. You probably are referring to a more formal invitation.


I'm in general agreement. Might be nice to point to exact time you assumed you were saved. Not like it is impossible to be regenerated at moment Billy Graham makes a call .... seemed to work the way when 3,000 suddenly converted shortly after Christ's death (I may have that fact distorted, too lazy to double check... something like that ... Acts 2:1-41 google says)

I took son to see Billy Graham in Dallas .... George Bush Sr. showed up but it wasn't advertised that he would be there

Bedtime...night

Goodnight, talk later. Blessings

 

[Sereni-tea]

Before Charles Finney, I do not believe there was an invitation system.
Finney was credited with winning around 500,000 souls before the Civil War. After him we had Moody and finally Billy Graham. The world's system has really taken over most of the Church.


The Bible does not teach an invitation system. If someone believes it does, then please, show the teaching.


John 3:3 teaches the natural man cannot even see the kingdom of God, so how could he accept an invitation?


If a natural man cannot receive the things of God, how can he receive Jesus? 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2.

Maybe we can go back further than Charles Finney, a lot further actually.
Remember the devil and his words? For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Gen 3:5.

An invitation system presents the same lie. It's telling you, that you are not really dead, you have free will to choose God and life, it's your decision (decisional regeneration), you can choose life.


Thoughts?

I don't think there is anything wrong with the 'invitation' in and of itself as I don't think it necessarily has anything to do with a free will choice. Repentance comes from hearing the Word and can happen at a large evangelistic event as much as any other time - as the Holy Spirit wills.

I would think that Peter's sermon is an example of an invitation, which I wpuld prefer to say a call to action:
Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:37-38

Like anything, the context is important. It is my understanding that these 'invitations' are given at the end of an evangelistic message. If the Gospel is preached faithfully, no matter how imperfectly, there is no reason that some (or many) can be brought to faith by the Holy Spirit. The power to change a person's heart lies with the Holy Spirit and not the person preaching.

What I do think is important is the followup after people respond. If it is a set and forget, that is not helpful. Satan can easily come in and pluck the message out of their heart. There needs to be a well coordinated effort to link people with local churches, provide Bibles, etc.

Billy Graham was here in my country before my time, so I have no experience of his minitry. However a number of leaders in my local denomination have testified that they were converted at a Billy Graham crusade meeting in their teenage years. They are all as Calvinistic as you can get, and have led the church in my city faithfully over many years, although most, if not all, are now retired.

 

[Mr GLee]

If a natural man cannot receive the things of God, how can he receive Jesus? 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2.

Its not the Son of man Jesus our brother in the lord (flesh and blood) that we receive .All of dying mankind must be born again. Marvel not.

Jesus the Son of man received his second birth like all sons of God believers

God is not a Jewish man as King of kings. . A wile of the evil one .

 

[Arial]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the 'invitation' in and of itself as I don't think it necessarily has anything to do with a free will choice. Repentance comes from hearing the Word and can happen at a large evangelistic event as much as any other time - as the Holy Spirit wills.

I would think that Peter's sermon is an example of an invitation, which I wpuld prefer to say a call to action:
Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:37-38

Like anything, the context is important. It is my understanding that these 'invitations' are given at the end of an evangelistic message. If the Gospel is preached faithfully, no matter how imperfectly, there is no reason that some (or many) can be brought to faith by the Holy Spirit. The power to change a person's heart lies with the Holy Spirit and not the person preaching.

What I do think is important is the followup after people respond. If it is a set and forget, that is not helpful. Satan can easily come in and pluck the message out of their heart. There needs to be a well coordinated effort to link people with local churches, provide Bibles, etc.

Billy Graham was here in my country before my time, so I have no experience of his minitry. However a number of leaders in my local denomination have testified that they were converted at a Billy Graham crusade meeting in their teenage years. They are all as Calvinistic as you can get, and have led the church in my city faithfully over many years, although most, if not all, are now retired.

It is the content that is important, I agree. Times have changed, our culture has changed, and as a result, what used to be the norm in families and communities and churches, is no longer the norm. Church used to be the center of a community. God and his word was the foundation of family. The word was taught from the pulpit, the teaching was God centered and the Bible systematically approached. In a situation such as that, children grew up hearing the truths of Scripture, the truths of Christ and him crucified. The doctrines were explored within the Scripture. The teaching was expositional. When a person began to believe is not so easily pin pointed in a situation like that. They either believed what they were hearing or they did not.

The modernization of our world destroyed both a church centered community as people moved from one place to another with ever more ease and speed, towns grew to cities etc. So I fully believe that God uses altar calls as a means. He gathers his people where ever they are.

The danger is if they have been persuaded, not by actual truth or gospel preached, but by the loaves and fishes promised so to speak. And have been told that a prayer inviting the Lord of the universe to be Lord to them, as though the lesser were blessing the greater, is what secures their salvation and the prayer is where their trust lies.

 

[Carbon]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the 'invitation' in and of itself as I don't think it necessarily has anything to do with a free will choice. Repentance comes from hearing the Word and can happen at a large evangelistic event as much as any other time - as the Holy Spirit wills.

Thanks for sharing your understanding. Hope you don't mind me pointing out a few things as to why I disagree with it.
Faith comes by hearing, yes, but after one is regenerated, not before. Eternal life is not an offer, we are not invited to come to accept it.

I would think that Peter's sermon is an example of an invitation, which I wpuld prefer to say a call to action:

I disagree.

Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:37-38

This sermon by Peter is completely different from one of, say Finneys, or Graham's invitations. You will not find where Peter or any of the apostles invite the people to come forward to receive Christ. Faith comes by hearing, yes, but after one is regenerated, not before.

Like anything, the context is important. It is my understanding that these 'invitations' are given at the end of an evangelistic message. If the Gospel is preached faithfully, no matter how imperfectly, there is no reason that some (or many) can be brought to faith by the Holy Spirit. The power to change a person's heart lies with the Holy Spirit and not the person preaching.

But where is this practice of an invitation given at the end of a sermon? Please present scripture or admit it is not taught in scripture but just an assumption.

What I do think is important is the followup after people respond. If it is a set and forget, that is not helpful. Satan can easily come in and pluck the message out of their heart. There needs to be a well coordinated effort to link people with local churches, provide Bibles, etc.

Where is Satan stealing the seed from the prepared ground? Scripture supports no such thing.

Those which landed on parched, rocky, thorns, yes. And those invitation systems teach people that they have the power to make themselves born again, it shows easy believism. Think about all the invitation made christians of today, many hate doctrines and creeds, it's just Jesus, no doctrine, and most of these are a disgrace to religion. It's a corruption of God's word and an unbiblical practice. Very misleading.

Billy Graham was here in my country before my time, so I have no experience of his minitry. However a number of leaders in my local denomination have testified that they were converted at a Billy Graham crusade meeting in their teenage years. They are all as Calvinistic as you can get, and have led the church in my city faithfully over many years, although most, if not all, are now retired.

Okay. Graham is not the main subject of the OP.

 

[Carbon]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the 'invitation' in and of itself as I don't think it necessarily has anything to do with a free will choice. Repentance comes from hearing the Word and can happen at a large evangelistic event as much as any other time - as the Holy Spirit wills.

I would think that Peter's sermon is an example of an invitation, which I wpuld prefer to say a call to action:
Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:37-38

Like anything, the context is important. It is my understanding that these 'invitations' are given at the end of an evangelistic message. If the Gospel is preached faithfully, no matter how imperfectly, there is no reason that some (or many) can be brought to faith by the Holy Spirit. The power to change a person's heart lies with the Holy Spirit and not the person preaching.

What I do think is important is the followup after people respond. If it is a set and forget, that is not helpful. Satan can easily come in and pluck the message out of their heart. There needs to be a well coordinated effort to link people with local churches, provide Bibles, etc.

Billy Graham was here in my country before my time, so I have no experience of his minitry. However a number of leaders in my local denomination have testified that they were converted at a Billy Graham crusade meeting in their teenage years. They are all as Calvinistic as you can get, and have led the church in my city faithfully over many years, although most, if not all, are now retired.

Don't you agree that the natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit no matter how you may present them?


But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2:14.

 

[Red Baker]

Who invented the invitation system?​

The devil........ using men like Charles Finney, Billy Sunday, Billy Graham. Jimmy Swaggart.

Reasons why it is false system/practice.

Jesus never gave one. The apostles never gave one. Eternal life life is not at risk. Under this point consider:

God promised eternal life to His elect, and not a single one shall perish (John 10:26-29). Jesus came to do God’s will and not lose a single one of the elect (John 6:39; 17:2). All that is at risk is our knowledge and assurance of salvation (Ist Cor 15:2; Gal 5:1-4). Everyone foreknown shall be glorified, without any loss whatsoever (Romans 8:29-39)! No one has been added to the Book of Life by an invitation, and no one has been lost from the Book of Life by rejecting an invitation. Much ado about nothing!

Eternal life is an unconditional gift. Under this point consider:

There are bible proofs that eternal life is unconditional. It is a pure gift of grace.

Man is unable to do anything pleasing to God in his state of death and depravity. The Bible denies man’s will or works to have anything to do with salvation. Faith and good works are the result of salvation, not the condition or means of it. The gospel was never designed to bring eternal life to anyone, but to reveal it. Jesus Christ saved all the elect by Himself without any human instrumentality. There are examples throughout the Bible of salvation without human conditions. This is the only doctrine of salvation that gives God and Christ all the glory.

Eternal life is a gift, not an offer. Consider:

Again~It is a gift: the wages of sin are death, but the gift of God is eternal life (Romans 6:23). God gave the elect to Jesus Christ to save before the world began (John 6:39) Jesus Christ gave Himself in life and death to accomplish this gift (Eph 5:25). And then Jesus gave eternal life as a gift to those given to Him (John 17:2).

It is not offered to men: for it was offered to God only, as man would not receive it. Jesus offered His sacrifice to God once by the eternal Spirit (Heb 9:14,28). Gospel blessings of fellowship are offered, but not eternal life (Revelation 3:20). And we offer our obedience as thanksgiving for what He has done (Rom 15:16).

Man does not accept eternal life: the acceptance that counts is God’s acceptance of us. God was satisfied and accepted Jesus Christ’s offering of Himself (Is 53:10-12). God made us accepted in His beloved (Eph 1:6). By invitation? By His choice! We then accept the most worthy news of these accomplished facts (I Tim 1:15). And our obedience to God is acceptable through Jesus Christ (I Peter 2:5).

There are no names written down in glory! ​

The song by C. Austin Miles, “A New Name in Glory,” is absolutely and totally false. The names in the Book of Life were written there from eternity past (Rev 13:8; 17:8), when the elect were chosen by God for salvation (Matt 25:34; Eph 1:4; 2nd Tim 1:9). Yet pianists and organists all over Christian America pick up the beat and play this ridiculous song, as if the Book of Life should be named after them! We should rejoice that our names are written in heaven, but they were written long ago!

We have many more, but enough...

 

[Sereni-tea]

Don't you agree that the natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit no matter how you may present them?


But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2:14.

Yes of course I agree. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. But that is a different question to the one about an invitation. An invitation is just that, an invitation, a call to action. It can be done well, or done poorly. The invitation itself does not regenerate anyone. It is the work of the Holy Spirit that regenerates. And the Holy Spirit can regenerate the elect during a large evangelistic event as much as a one-on-one discussion.

There is of course a lot of misuse of this sort of thing - televangelists come to mind. But misuse does not mean it shouldn't be done.

 

[Sereni-tea]

Thanks for sharing your understanding. Hope you don't mind me pointing out a few things as to why I disagree with it.
Faith comes by hearing, yes, but after one is regenerated, not before.

Yes, but it is not up to any of us to say the moment in time when God regenerates a person. He can, and does, regenerate people when they hear the Gospel. Many were regenerated when hearing Peter's sermon, or they would not have responded how they did.

Eternal life is not an offer, we are not invited to come to accept it.

As I said, it can be done well, or poorly. But that is a different question to the general one you were asking about.

I disagree.

This sermon by Peter is completely different from one of, say Finneys, or Graham's invitations. You will not find where Peter or any of the apostles invite the people to come forward to receive Christ. Faith comes by hearing, yes, but after one is regenerated, not before.

I agree with you that the language of 'receiving Christ', which has become so entrenched in today's Christianity, is not what the Bible teaches. But a poorly worded call doesn not negate the message that was preached or the possibility of the elect being regenerated. It is God who works and can do so no matter how poorly we present the message.

But where is this practice of an invitation given at the end of a sermon? Please present scripture or admit it is not taught in scripture but just an assumption.

When the people asked 'what should we do' Peter responded with a call to action: 'Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'

Where is Satan stealing the seed from the prepared ground? Scripture supports no such thing.

Those which landed on parched, rocky, thorns, yes. And those invitation systems teach people that they have the power to make themselves born again, it shows easy believism. Think about all the invitation made christians of today, many hate doctrines and creeds, it's just Jesus, no doctrine, and most of these are a disgrace to religion. It's a corruption of God's word and an unbiblical practice. Very misleading.

Yes, it can be done very badly, no question about that. And the examples you have given I completely agree with you are very unbiblical. However it can, and has been, done well and blessed by God as evidenced by the fruit that it bears.

Okay. Graham is not the main subject of the OP.

Agreed.

 

[Sereni-tea]

It is the content that is important, I agree. Times have changed, our culture has changed, and as a result, what used to be the norm in families and communities and churches, is no longer the norm. Church used to be the center of a community. God and his word was the foundation of family. The word was taught from the pulpit, the teaching was God centered and the Bible systematically approached. In a situation such as that, children grew up hearing the truths of Scripture, the truths of Christ and him crucified. The doctrines were explored within the Scripture. The teaching was expositional. When a person began to believe is not so easily pin pointed in a situation like that. They either believed what they were hearing or they did not.

The modernization of our world destroyed both a church centered community as people moved from one place to another with ever more ease and speed, towns grew to cities etc. So I fully believe that God uses altar calls as a means. He gathers his people where ever they are.

Yes, times have changed. And perhaps in the western world this sort of evangelism no longer has a place. However that is not the same everywhere in the world and God can work through whatever means He wills.

The danger is if they have been persuaded, not by actual truth or gospel preached, but by the loaves and fishes promised so to speak. And have been told that a prayer inviting the Lord of the universe to be Lord to them, as though the lesser were blessing the greater, is what secures their salvation and the prayer is where their trust lies.

Agreed. A single prayer will not save anyone. The Gospel is a call to repentance and giving your life to Jesus. It is not a one off deal.

 

[David Lamb]

Its not the Son of man Jesus our brother in the lord (flesh and blood) that we receive .All of dying mankind must be born again. Marvel not.

Jesus the Son of man received his second birth like all sons of God believers

God is not a Jewish man as King of kings. . A wile of the evil one .

What biblical evidence do you have that Jesus had to be born again? Hew is the Son of God, not a "Son of God believer."

 

[Red Baker]

And the Holy Spirit can regenerate the elect during a large evangelistic event as much as a one-on-one discussion.

About a scriptural truth that God does regenerate his elect by himself without any means, including: the will of the flesh; the will of another man; the written word of God, none of these play any part in the quickening of a man dead in trespasses and sin, only the same power that resurrected Jesus from the dead can do the same for sinners.

Ephesians 1:18-20~ "The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,”

 

[Mr GLee]

What biblical evidence do you have that Jesus had to be born again? Hew is the Son of God, not a "Son of God believer."

Hi thanks

I would offer many look to the dying flesh of Jesus the Son of man in false hope as if God was a dying mankind and not eternal Spirit not seen .

When the father gave the words to his apostle Jesus "you must be born again" . . ."marvel or wonder not" it included the Son of man Jesus who became as Son of God . jesu the Son of man the first born of all born again from above. According to the born again doctrine.

Beginning with the prophet Abel the "second born" the first reckoned as born again .

Cain the first born under the influence of Satan the father of lies murdered the second born seed in Abel . Christ reinstated "a man must be born again" and gave another second born to replace Abel ,

The second born again seed was passed down and fulfilled over a thousand of years later at the birth of the Son of Man Jesus ,our brother in the Lord

It was then and not before that God appointed another to develop his doctrine "mankind must be born again" . T hen empowed by the Holy Spirt born again believers began to call . Not before they born from above

Genesis 4: 25-26 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.

Cain seeing no value in the spiritual invisible things destroyed the spiritual born again seed.(Christ)

Onan, another seeing no value in faith (the unseen things of God) spilled it out. He was killed.

Esau having no values in things of faith sold it to Jacob for a cup of hairy goat soup .

Abram another second born. His name was changed to the Father of all nations (Abraham) represent a person must born again from the father in heaven . Eventually the shadows of the second born became sight .The birth of the Son of man Jesus the true first born .

Not Cain used to represent the evil lone

Jesus was not ashamed to call us brothers and sister. . bond sufferers for the gospel

Satan the lying sign and wonders King . Causing "wonderment" and not belief faith coming from Christ .

Wondering as if the lying signs were prophecy ???????

Many sign seekers to wonder after today. No wonder things are be turned upside down by the chief identity thief Satan. Just imgaine identify to whatever, whoever your imagination can produce .And behold reincarnation will get you there.

Image a man does not need to be born again the extreme left . Or sound the Trump and make a man must be born again , great again .

The goal of Satan to seduce mankind to believe God is a Jewish man as King of kings.

Jesus prophesied

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother

Call no man on earth Abba Father (pope)

 

[Red Baker]

He can, and does, regenerate people when they hear the Gospel. Many were regenerated when hearing Peter's sermon, or they would not have responded how they did.

Impossible~the gospel is not the means of our regeneration, it is only the source of information of God's revealing himself to his elect concerning his eternal purposes through Jesus Christ his only begotten Son~only a regenerate child of God can understand God's testimony from his word which he was pleased to give unto us.

Those in Acts two proved that God had regenerated them by their faith and desire to do what they had to do to pleased him~neither Peter's sermon, nor their baptism, had one thing to do with them being born again.

If you desire to discuss this farther we can.

 

[David Lamb]

Hi thanks

I would offer many look to the dying flesh of Jesus the Son of man in false hope as if God was a dying mankind and not eternal Spirit not seen .

When the father gave the words to his apostle Jesus "you must be born again" . . ."marvel or wonder not" it included the Son of man Jesus who became as Son of God . jesu the Son of man the first born of all born again from above. According to the born again doctrine.

Beginning with the prophet Abel the "second born" the first reckoned as born again .

Cain the first born under the influence of Satan the father of lies murdered the second born seed in Abel . Christ reinstated "a man must be born again" and gave another second born to replace Abel ,

The second born again seed was passed down and fulfilled over a thousand of years later at the birth of the Son of Man Jesus ,our brother in the Lord

It was then and not before that God appointed another to develop his doctrine "mankind must be born again" . T hen empowed by the Holy Spirt born again believers began to call . Not before they born from above

Genesis 4: 25-26 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.

Cain seeing no value in the spiritual invisible things destroyed the spiritual born again seed.(Christ)

Onan, another seeing no value in faith (the unseen things of God) spilled it out. He was killed.

Esau having no values in things of faith sold it to Jacob for a cup of hairy goat soup .

Abram another second born. His name was changed to the Father of all nations (Abraham) represent a person must born again from the father in heaven . Eventually the shadows of the second born became sight .The birth of the Son of man Jesus the true first born .

Not Cain used to represent the evil lone

Jesus was not ashamed to call us brothers and sister. . bond sufferers for the gospel

Satan the lying sign and wonders King . Causing "wonderment" and not belief faith coming from Christ .

Wondering as if the lying signs were prophecy ???????

Many sign seekers to wonder after today. No wonder things are be turned upside down by the chief identity thief Satan. Just imgaine identify to whatever, whoever your imagination can produce .And behold reincarnation will get you there.

Image a man does not need to be born again the extreme left . Or sound the Trump and make a man must be born again , great again .

The goal of Satan to seduce mankind to believe God is a Jewish man as King of kings.

Jesus prophesied

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother

Call no man on earth Abba Father (pope)

I realise that we are getting away from the invitation system, but I must say that so much of what you wrote seems to be directly opposite what the bible says. Just two examples. You said: "many look to the dying flesh of Jesus the Son of man in false hope as if God was a dying mankind and not eternal Spirit not seen." The bible says:

“who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness — by whose stripes you were healed.” (1Pe 2:24 NKJV)

You say: "....Jesus who became as Son of God.." The bible makes it clear that He was eternally with God, and that He Himself is God. Jesus Himself said:

“"I and [My] Father are one."” (Joh 10:30 NKJV)

John writes of this same Jesus Christ:

“1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.” (Joh 1:1-3 NKJV)

I know I have not answered all the points you make, but I'm being brief because I know we are off topic.

 

[Arial]

Impossible~the gospel is not the means of our regeneration, it is only the source of information of God's revealing himself to his elect concerning his eternal purposes through Jesus Christ his only begotten Son~only a regenerate child of God can understand God's testimony from his word which he was pleased to give unto us.

I do not believe that is what was said. Remember, we cannot believe what we do not hear and we cannot hear unless someone preaches----.

God does not regenerate all those he regenerates in the same way or through the same means. In the example given in Acts the Holy Spirit fell on 3,000, which was an act of regeneration, and they believed what they heard.

If someone is raised in a church that teaches Bible truths, knowing when they were regenerated may not be something that can be identified. But to those of us who came to Christ in adulthood, having no experience with Christianity, and not a speck of understanding or even interest in it, we can know. I know looking back, though at the time I had no idea it was called regeneration and had never heard of such a thing. Yes, I had heard the expression, "born again Christian" but it was being used to present two classes of Christians. The Charismatics and the traditional denominational. The first were the superior born again Christians. (I began my walk with the Charismatics, thinking that was the right way.)

I began believing that the change in me was do to a prayer I had said, though it was not in an altar call but in my own living room. The internal changes did not come then or that day, but in the night as I slept. I awoke a new person, turned a 180 from who I was when I went to sleep. I spent the first 23 years believing that the prayer in and of itself was the reason. And yet I was truly saved all those years. I was not satisfied, praise be to God. I needed something those churches did not offer. The knowledge of God. The rest is history as they say.

So it is incorrect and contradictory to say that God will save all the elect and at the same time say he will not do it in the midst of an altar call. Not all those who respond to altar calls are regenerated. But some of them are.

 

[Red Baker]

Remember, we cannot believe what we do not hear and we cannot hear unless someone preaches----.

Sister, this will be short, since I'm heading to vote with my bride~of fifty seven years plus.

You are 100% correct~yet regeneration doe snot come by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Maybe It would serve me to do a thread on regeneration so all would know exactly my understanding. The gospel is for our conversion to the truth. Regeneration and conversion are not the same, even though many connect them as one.

I began believing that the change in me was do to a prayer I had said, though it was not in an altar call but in my own living room. The internal changes did not come then or that day, but in the night as I slept.

Great confession! Actually I would say that was the first step of your conversion to the truth, seeking God/truth with your new nature God had given to you at some point unknow to you.

And yet I was truly saved all those years. I was not satisfied, praise be to God.

AMEN!

So it is incorrect and contradictory to say that God will save all the elect

Are you speaking of conversion, our practical salvation from error, etc.

I must run~I skipped over some, but may come back to this.