Who and what is the antichrist?

[Mr GLee]

Those were the antichrists John was talking about. However, he speaks of a central figure, a central "antichrist" to come. He will stand in the face of God Himself, and make Himself out to be God. He will seek to subjugate all under himself, against God.

The central figure is the father of lies. He is here from the beginning He has no form. He is the one anti-spirit of error that works in a legion of antichrists false prophets as false apostles ( antichrists plural )

His goal from the beginning (Did this invisible God really you shall not die. .???? Trust my beauty and live forever . Satan through the oral traditions of dying mankind deceiving mankind that eternal God is a Jewish man as King of kings .

A perfect picture as a parable is used to exposé the spirit Satan one that woks in many antichrists'

Mathew 16 showing the father of lies .The one spirt of error called the antichrist (singular ) working in dying mankind antichrists(plural ) The best example of what not to do. Bow down to the oral traditons of mankind rather than all thing written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)

Peter our brother in the lord empowered by the father of lies (false pride) Peter rebuked God and forbid the Son of man Jesus from displaying the work of two

Perter was forgiven of his blasphemy of the Son of man Jesus. That 33year window of opportunity closed when the flesh of the Son of man disappeared and returned to dust

No forgiveness against the unseen Holy Father in whom again Peter empowered by the antichrist Lucifer rebuked our unseen head the Father

Mathew 16: 20-23 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Rather than obeying the loving commandment tell no man. . Peter was deceived as being "the God man " .

The man of sin that many even today look for as some sort of sign. Any of the spirit of lies that he works in bring false gospel oral tradition of dying mankind Just like the one of Peter a antichrists' demonstrated

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Satan the father of lies(the spirit of the antichrist) ,The father of false prophecy that moved false apostles is a murderer from the beginning with Abel the true prophet sent as a apostle the first recorded martyr .. Antichrists'. . false apostles sent with false prophecy

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[Josheb]

Well noticed.

Tnak you.

Satan and the demons that were commanded to depart their captives, knew precisely who Jesus was. They recognised His authority, they responded instantly to His voice, and knew that whatever purpose He came for, was unhealthy for them.

Yep

The word Antichrist does not only mean against. The word actually reveals how it is against... It is through displacing, replacing, the true Christ in the minds of anyone susceptible to deception. The word means instead of, in the room of... Christ. Naturally, replacing Christ and instituting a counterfeit would be an act of attention against Christ. And certainly, Satan would be behind and lending all the support he can for such an enterprise, but Satan Himself, although I believe he will impersonate Christ during the very last days, is not the Antichrist spoken of in scripture.
The Antichrist that the prophecies reveal is a specific entity described metaphorically in different ways, but all sharing the same characteristics. Little horn... Beast... Man of sin...
However, the specific characteristics or criteria we can glean from scripture are succinct, clear, time stamped, and peculiar to just one entity. Although some share some of those criteria, such as described in John and mentioned above revealing many Antichrists who don't believe Jesus came in the flesh etc, there is only one entity who meets all the criteria, and there are over 10. Once those criteria are laid out in order and explained, the identity of the principle Antichrist is obvious.
The question is, because so many people are so entrenched in their chosen hermeneutic, are they willing to open their eyes and hearts to different possibilities? In my experience on various forums going back over 20 years, the answer is generally no. But times are changing. The entity to which I refer is on the move. He's been around for a long time, and is ready to fulfil the last acts of defiance against God's real gospel, and establish his counterfeit and impose it upon the whole world.

Nope.


All of those statements are produced by post-biblical man-made doctrine(s) and not what the scriptures themselves actually state. For example, the Bible never actually states any antichrist is a 21st century phenomenon. It does explicitly state many antichrists existed in the first century and implied the first century Christians were anticipating one specific antichrist. Scripture never states Satan is an antichrist, and Satan does not meet the criteria that is provided in scripture (as we both agree). Scripture never states the antichrist is the beast (or the lawless man, or the AoD). Those are all assumptions made by various end-times points of view, not what scripture itself ever states.

Sadly, scripture says that the whole world will wonder after him.

Well..... some clarification is warranted because Satan is not a leader and he is not the true enemy of God/Christ. Sin is the enemy. Satan is, himself, enslaved to sin. The moment Lucifer/Satan/Adversary/Accuser disobeyed God he instantly became enslaved to sin. The wages of sin is death. Satan is dead in sin, just as is every other creature who sins. Satan is not a free agent. He does not and cannot do as he pleases because all his desires are sinful. Even if he wanted to do a single "good" act, he could not do so, and he could not do so in any way pleasing to God.

So, therefore, when we say, "the whole world will wonder after him," the (inescapable) foundational truth upon which that is built is the whole world wonders after sin - sin to which it is enslaved.

Only a small remnant will oppose him. Joining such opposition will prove to be very uncomfortable, unpopular, open to ridicule and abuse, even from the church.

Tell us about your eschatological point of view. Based on the contents of Post 99, it looks like you might be a subscriber to Dispensational Premillennialism, but I don't want to assume that. I say that because the post is couched in the future, in what will happen, to the exclusion of what has happened, and I don't know whether that is intentional. I also ask this question because while Dispensationalism is very popular, it is also a minority point of view, especially in this forum. You're new to CCAM, so I'd like you to know and understand, for your benefit and ours, the Dispensationalist views is the minority here. Dispensationalists are openly resisted in this forum and asked to exegetically account for their positions.

But looking forward to chatting with everyone.

I genuinely hope that is true. I like to "chat" with everyone but when it comes to chatting about eschatology with Dispensationalists rancor is the standard.

I, personally, am also a poster who likes to stick to the topic specified in an op and not digress far afield of an op and then repeatedly change the subject (moving the goalposts) and thereby ever avoiding the original topic and points in evidence. For example, this op is specifically about identifying the antichrist. Nothing more. It's not about one world governments, or earthly kingdoms, who does or doesn't go through the tribulation, the rapture, or anything other than "who or what is the antichrist." Dispies usually have a difficult time staying on topic. They do not "chat."

I genuinely hope that is not the case with you and look forward to the chatting .

Just sayin'. Welcome to my world.

I do not know what that means.

 

[Brakelite]

All of those statements are produced by post-biblical man-made doctrine(s) and not what the scriptures themselves actually state. For example, the Bible never actually states any antichrist is a 21st century phenomenon. It does explicitly state many antichrists existed in the first century and implied the first century Christians were anticipating one specific antichrist. Scripture never states Satan is an antichrist, and Satan does not meet the criteria that is provided in scripture (as we both agree). Scripture never states the antichrist is the beast (or the lawless man, or the AoD). Those are all assumptions made by various end-times points of view, not what scripture itself ever states.

Those aren't assumptions made from a vacuum. They come from a prophetic understanding that has a logical and biblical symmetry that is inspired by God and has no equal in eschatology studies elsewhere.

Tell us about your eschatological point of view. Based on the contents of Post 99, it looks like you might be a subscriber to Dispensational Premillennialism,

A premillennial second coming, yes. Dispensational. No. I'm not a futurist, nor preterist, but historicist.

 

[Brakelite]

I would like to clarify a couple of things about what I believe are essential to the meaning of 'Antichrist'. But before we look at the antichrist, I want to look at the real Christ. Who is He? Let us go to the scriptures to find out what and Who He claimed to be.

Matthew 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

The temple, the priesthood, and the religious system of the Jewish nation go hand in hand. It was the mainstay and focal point of the life of Israel. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater. Greater even than the very High priest who no doubt would take great interest in hearing a report of these words. Greater even than the very law of God enshrined within. (Or at least it used to be). Only one person can be greater than any law of God, and that is the lawgiver.

38 ¶ Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Jonah was the most powerful and successful of all OT prophets. In all 40 odd chapters of Jeremiah, there is no record of anyone at anytime taking the slightest bit of notice of anything Jeremiah said. Yet Jonah, on the strength of just one or two sermons, converted an entire city of the children of Ishmael totaling maybe 60,000 people. Nineveh. By any standards, that has got to be recorded as a very successful evangelistic campaign. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater than Jonah.

42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

Solomon was the wisest and wealthiest and most successful of any ruler of the ancient world. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater even than Solomon.

In the three startling claims as shown above, we have before us the threefold ministry of Jesus. Priest, prophet, and King.

It has been said, and I think wisely, that the Bible must be understood grammatically before it can be understood theologically. Anti- as in antichrist, according to Strong's concordance, and like other words having the prefix 'anti', means at it's most basic form "in the room of", "instead of", or "in the place of".
In other words, 'antichrist' stands as a substitute. We all know that Satan works by deception. Yet many would claim the 'antichrist' will be one who will charge in on a black horse guns blazing with fury and hatred directed at all things Christian and opposing with great force the church. Pray tell me, how will the world be deceived by such a tactic as this?
In 2 Thess. 2:1 we are told that there was to be a falling away first, which will reveal the antichrist, or as Paul describes him, the man of sin or son of perdition. Now falling away in this instance is a falling into apostasy; divorce.
Any divorce necessitates a prior favourable relationship. The only other example of a 'son of perdition' is Judas Iscariot. Did Judas openly and with force oppose Christ? Did he attack His teachings and disagree with Jesus claims to divinity? Did he argue and debate everything Jesus stood for and seek the destruction of His followers? No. Not by any means. Judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss. He betrayed Him with an act of apparent love, fellowship, and friendship. He undermined and betrayed Jesus at the same time as claiming Him to be his friend!! This squares perfectly with the meaning of antichrist. He is not an opposer, but a subtle imposter. A counterfeit. An imposter of Jesus Christ. A false copy, or forgery of the true.
Antichrist is therefore a person or power who impersonates the offices of Priesthood, the Prophet or spokesmanship, and the Kingly rule of Christ. The office that ministers for God, speaks for God, and rules for God.
Satan has many counterfeits. Now counterfeits are almost identical to the true. You do not get counterfeit 99$ notes. You get counterfeit 100$ notes. And unless you get trained and disciplined to know intimately the true 100$ note, you will not recognise the false. It has been estimated that every person in America who has regularly handled 100$ notes, has had pass through their hands a counterfeit at least 4 times a year! And not known it!!!! Unless you are intimately acquainted with the true Jesus, how will you recognise the counterfeit?
So how does Antichrist counterfeit the threefold ministry of the true Christ, as Priest, Prophet and King? Is there an entity in the world today who claims to do just this? Is there one like Judas who is betraying the Master with a kiss, all the while claiming to be a friend? Is there in the world today a religious system or religious ruler who claims to be the earthly representative of Christ as His priest, claiming to be a mediator between God and man? Claiming to forgive sin even?
Does this entity also claim the prerogatives of a prophet? Does it claim to speak for God in spiritual matters? Does it claim to stand as Gods spokesman on earth and claim that only through it's authority can salvation be found?
And finally, does this entity also claim to be a king? Does it claim authority as a secular power? Does it exercise authority and power within the auspices of a church/state relationship?

I think you all know the answer is yes.There is an entity in the world today who claims all the above Godly prerogatives which belong only to Jesus Christ. Priest, prophet and king.This entity has set itself up as counterfeit and thus can be affirmatively identified as the antichrist, the impostor and impersonator of the true. And this entity can be found in the Roman Catholic church system.

In Roman Catholic theology is also the embedded principle of 'replacement' or 'displacement' of Jesus.The entire sacramental system is based on the premise that only through participation in the sacraments as administered by Rome, can anyone hope for eternal life. Rome does not recognise any path to eternity apart from that which she has ordained through the priesthood under the headship of the Roman bishop. Thus Rome has implemented a system of works that men must do, or tasks that men must accomplish, be it confession to a priest, penance, participation in mass, partaking of the Eucharist, pilgrimages to shrines or basilicas, recitation of the rosary, or prayers to Mary or the saints and many other 'religious' acts, all for the purpose of salvation. The Protestant principle of 'sola fide', faith only, is anathema to Rome.
Of course, no-one of the above is new. It is what all the reformers agreed on. In fact, it is almost the only thing they agreed on, and was what turned the Catholic world upside down, and inspired a reformation within the church, and a counter reformation without.

 

[Mr GLee]

Those aren't assumptions made from a vacuum. They come from a prophetic understanding that has a logical and biblical symmetry that is inspired by God and has no equal in eschatology studies elsewhere.

A premillennial second coming, yes. Dispensational. No. I'm not a futurist, nor preterist, but historicist.

Historicist ? Is that to literally historically translate?

 

[Brakelite]

Historicist ? Is that to literally historically translate?

Not necessarily. It means basically that we view prophecy as following the line of history from the time the prophecy was given. For example. The statue of Daniel 2 and the parallel visions of Daniel 7 and 8, began to unfold in the prophet's lifetime, and continued to unfold through history until the consummation. They weren't completed early in the Christian era, nor were they postponed until the end of time. They follow a timeline. Revelation is similar.

 

[Mr GLee]

Not necessarily. It means basically that we view prophecy as following the line of history from the time the prophecy was given. For example. The statue of Daniel 2 and the parallel visions of Daniel 7 and 8, began to unfold in the prophet's lifetime, and continued to unfold through history until the consummation. They weren't completed early in the Christian era, nor were they postponed until the end of time. They follow a timeline. Revelation is similar.

In that way the lord stopped bringing new prophecies as of the Revaltion the last until the end of time . It would seem Revelation is a summary off the whole using parables the signified understanding according the opening of the book called hidden manna in chapter 2:17
.
Revelation 1King James Version1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

I would think in that way we mix the temporal literal historical with the unseen eternal things of God according to the mixing instructions.

The Amil position , The literal temporal must be mixed with the eternal signified thing of faith, the unseen things of God .

We have the prescription needed in order to rightly divide the parables given from our Father, below .

2 Corinthians 4:18King James Version18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

No mixing of the two no gospel rest .

Hebrews 4:1-3 King James Version4 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

 

[Josheb]

Those aren't assumptions made from a vacuum. They come from a prophetic understanding that has a logical and biblical symmetry that is inspired by God and has no equal in eschatology studies elsewhere.

According to Historicism?

A premillennial second coming, yes. Dispensational. No.

Glad to read that.

I'm not a futurist, nor preterist, but historicist.

Glad to know. I'll make note of that and try to remember it for future exchanges.


None of this changes the fact John was the only NT writer to use the term "antichrist," he provided specific criteria by which anyone could identify such a person, they existed during his day, and nowhere did he say anything about one specific antichrist being eschatological important two millennia after he wrote his letters, and none of the modern futurists here in this thread have stuck to the criteria John provided. For example, the noting the antichrist is Satan is logically impossible. That viewpoint did not, does not, and cannot be said to come from scripture because Satan knows Jesus came from the Father and did so in the flesh. The same is true of the Pope. It was good, correct, and astute for posters to point out a glaring contradiction that should never, ever, be posted (here or in any other forum).

And it is only modern futurism that makes this kind of mistakes. No one else has that problem.

Assuming there is a future antichrist AND one in our future, as opposed to Christians living in the 22nd century, or the 44th century, or the 97th century, then whoever that person is he MUST....

• Be a liar.
• Deny Jesus is the Messiah.
• Deny the Father.
• Deny the Son.
• Deny Jesus is from God.
• Deny Jesus came in the flesh.
• Be a deceiver.

That is the criteria specified in John's epistles. That list is probably not exhaustive but there's no way any speculation about the identity of the antichrist can or should ignore what is explicitly stipulated.

 

[Josheb]

Not necessarily. It means basically that we view prophecy as following the line of history from the time the prophecy was given.

No, that is not what Historicist means.

That might be what it means among your group, but in the context of eschatology, the word "Historicist" or "Historical," as in Historical Premillennialism, simply means it is the historical view of premillennialism, one that is different than the newer version of premillennialism, Dispensational Premillennialism. Simply put, Historical Premillennialism is the more historical version of premillennialism. No one called it "Historical Premillennialism," prior to the introduction of Dispensationalism. It was just premillennialism.

• Premillennialism
• Amillennialism
• Postmillennialism

That was it until modern futurists hit the scene.

Not necessarily. It means basically that we view prophecy as following the line of history from the time the prophecy was given.

All eschatologies do that. We just do it differently. The more a person reads scripture literally and exegetically, the more s/he is preterist. Every single occasion in the NT where an NT writers says, "This is to fulfill what X said......" is one of those occasions where the "line of history from the time the prophecy was given," has come to its end. That prophecy was fulfilled. Unless there is some prophecy or some new revelation stating the prophecy will be fulfilled multiple times that prophecy is done, completed, fulfilled, and there is no need or warrant to look for it to yet happen.


There is no prophecy in Daniel using the word, "antichrist." There's no "line of history." There's no beginning point in Daniel ever stating the word "antichrist." ANY claim to follow a "line of history," MUST first establish the first point in the line. It's not something that should be speculated about or eisegetically created.


As a Historicist, prove to me Daniel prophesied about the antichrist (and not some other bad guy not named the antichrist).

 

[Marty]

No, that is not what Historicist means.

That might be what it means among your group, but in the context of eschatology, the word "Historicist" or "Historical," as in Historical Premillennialism, simply means it is the historical view of premillennialism, one that is different than the newer version of premillennialism, Dispensational Premillennialism. Simply put, Historical Premillennialism is the more historical version of premillennialism. No one called it "Historical Premillennialism," prior to the introduction of Dispensationalism. It was just premillennialism.

• Premillennialism
• Amillennialism
• Postmillennialism

That was it until modern futurists hit the scene.

All eschatologies do that. We just do it differently. The more a person reads scripture literally and exegetically, the more s/he is preterist. Every single occasion in the NT where an NT writers says, "This is to fulfill what X said......" is one of those occasions where the "line of history from the time the prophecy was given," has come to its end. That prophecy was fulfilled. Unless there is some prophecy or some new revelation stating the prophecy will be fulfilled multiple times that prophecy is done, completed, fulfilled, and there is no need or warrant to look for it to yet happen.


There is no prophecy in Daniel using the word, "antichrist." There's no "line of history." There's no beginning point in Daniel ever stating the word "antichrist." ANY claim to follow a "line of history," MUST first establish the first point in the line. It's not something that should be speculated about or eisegetically created.


As a Historicist, prove to me Daniel prophesied about the antichrist (and not some other bad guy not named the antichrist).

Yes and John's description and purpose of the antichrist is nothing like Daniels description on the little horn

 

[Josheb]

Yes and John's description and purpose of the antichrist is nothing like Daniels description on the little horn

It's not rocket surgery, is it?


The op asks "who" and "what". How does John answer the "when"?

 

[Marty]

It's not rocket surgery, is it?


The op asks "who" and "what". How does John answer the "when"?

No its not LOL

1 John 2:18
18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.


1 John 4:3
3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

2 John 1:7
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Well the bible says that it was back in Johns's days

 

[Brakelite]

Time for a Bible study. Let me know when and if you recognise the criteria pertaining to the Antichrist, and then if you might be able to identify him/her/it.

Carefully study the following. They are comparisons revealing the true from the counterfeit.

Dragon/Satan.
His place in heaven (Rev 12:3, 7, 8.)
He has a throne. (Rev 13:2; 2:13)
Gives throne, power, and authority to sea-beast. (13:2,4.)
He is worshipped. (13:4a)
Destroyed forever. (20:9,10)

Now compare:
God the Father
Dwelling in heaven (Rev 4, 5)
He has a throne. (4:5; 7:9-15; 19:4)
Gives throne, power and authority to Jesus. (Math 28:18 Rev 2:27; 3:21; chapters 4,5.)
Is worshipped. (Rev 4:10; 15:4)
Lives and reign forever. (4:9; 5:13; 11:15)

The Land-beast
Called the false prophet because he deceives people with regards to religious matters. (16:13; 19:20; 20:10)
Lamb-like. (13:11)
Exercises all authority of sea-beast. (13:12a)
Directs worship to sea-beast. (13:12b,15)
Performs signs. (13:13; 19:20)
Brings fire down from heaven (13:13)
Gives breath/life to beasts image (13:15)
Applies mark of beast. (13:16)

Now compare:
The Holy Spirit
Called the Spirit of truth guiding people. (Jn 16:13 Rev 22:17)
Christ-like, in fact is the very Spirit of Christ. (Jn 14:26; 16:14; Romans 8:9,10)
Exercises authority of Christ (Jn 16:13, 14)
Directs our attention to Christ (Acts 5:29-32)
Fire from heaven at Pentecost (Acts 2)
Instills life to us, the image of Christ, His character. (Romans8:11,29; 2 Peter 1:3,4.)
Applies seal of God. (2 Cor 1:22 Eph 1:13 4:30 Rev 7:3, 4.)

The sea-beast
Comes from water to begin activity. (13:1)
Resembles dragon. (12:13 13:1)
Ten diadems. (13:1)
Ten horns (13:1)
Receives power throne and authority from dragon/Satan. (13:2,4)
42 months of activity in first phase. (13:5)
Was slain (13:3)
Resurrected (13:3)
Receives worship after healing (13:3,4,8)

Now compare:
Jesus Christ
Comes from water to begin ministry (Luke 3:21-23)
Resembles Father (Jn 14:19)
Many diadems (Rev 19:12)
Lamb has 7 horns (5:6)
Receives power throne and authority from His Father (Math 28:18 Rev 2:27 Chapters 4,5)
42 months of ministry in initial phase. (Gospel of John)
Was slain (Rev 5:6)
Was resurrected (Rev1:18)
Received worship after resurrection (Math 28:17)

If the Antichrist isn't one of the above counterfeit entities, then where is he, and who are those 3 above?

 

[Marty]

Time for a Bible study. Let me know when and if you recognise the criteria pertaining to the Antichrist, and then if you might be able to identify him/her/it.

Carefully study the following. They are comparisons revealing the true from the counterfeit.

Dragon/Satan.
His place in heaven (Rev 12:3, 7, 8.)
He has a throne. (Rev 13:2; 2:13)
Gives throne, power, and authority to sea-beast. (13:2,4.)
He is worshipped. (13:4a)
Destroyed forever. (20:9,10)

Now compare:
God the Father
Dwelling in heaven (Rev 4, 5)
He has a throne. (4:5; 7:9-15; 19:4)
Gives throne, power and authority to Jesus. (Math 28:18 Rev 2:27; 3:21; chapters 4,5.)
Is worshipped. (Rev 4:10; 15:4)
Lives and reign forever. (4:9; 5:13; 11:15)

The Land-beast
Called the false prophet because he deceives people with regards to religious matters. (16:13; 19:20; 20:10)
Lamb-like. (13:11)
Exercises all authority of sea-beast. (13:12a)
Directs worship to sea-beast. (13:12b,15)
Performs signs. (13:13; 19:20)
Brings fire down from heaven (13:13)
Gives breath/life to beasts image (13:15)
Applies mark of beast. (13:16)

Now compare:
The Holy Spirit
Called the Spirit of truth guiding people. (Jn 16:13 Rev 22:17)
Christ-like, in fact is the very Spirit of Christ. (Jn 14:26; 16:14; Romans 8:9,10)
Exercises authority of Christ (Jn 16:13, 14)
Directs our attention to Christ (Acts 5:29-32)
Fire from heaven at Pentecost (Acts 2)
Instills life to us, the image of Christ, His character. (Romans8:11,29; 2 Peter 1:3,4.)
Applies seal of God. (2 Cor 1:22 Eph 1:13 4:30 Rev 7:3, 4.)

The sea-beast
Comes from water to begin activity. (13:1)
Resembles dragon. (12:13 13:1)
Ten diadems. (13:1)
Ten horns (13:1)
Receives power throne and authority from dragon/Satan. (13:2,4)
42 months of activity in first phase. (13:5)
Was slain (13:3)
Resurrected (13:3)
Receives worship after healing (13:3,4,8)

Now compare:
Jesus Christ
Comes from water to begin ministry (Luke 3:21-23)
Resembles Father (Jn 14:19)
Many diadems (Rev 19:12)
Lamb has 7 horns (5:6)
Receives power throne and authority from His Father (Math 28:18 Rev 2:27 Chapters 4,5)
42 months of ministry in initial phase. (Gospel of John)
Was slain (Rev 5:6)
Was resurrected (Rev1:18)
Received worship after resurrection (Math 28:17)

If the Antichrist isn't one of the above counterfeit entities, then where is he, and who are those 3 above?

The antichrist is exactly what the bible and John show us it is.

The antichrist isn’t a counterfeit it’s an opposite it’s anti.

You are confusing the sea beast and the antichrist they are named different and given different names in the bible

1 John 2:18
18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

1 John 2:22
22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3
3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

2 John 1:7
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

In Johns day as shown in Johns gospel the perfect example of the antichrist was the spirit behind apostate Israel who denied that Jesus came from God

 

[Mr GLee]

The antichrist isn’t a counterfeit it’s an opposite it’s anti.

I would offer the counterfeit (false prophecy ) opposes the true teaching authority Christ in us as it is writen in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)

There is a legion of false prophets as false apostles today (antichrists) . The by the traditons of dying mankind take away the understanding of the Potter as if earthly inspired and not heavenly coming down like rain . . .the water of the word, the gospel of salvation

Satan, the Legion, the spirit of false prophets false apostles the "upside down counterfeiter"

Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

 

[Josheb]

No its not LOL

1 John 2:18
18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.


1 John 4:3
3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

2 John 1:7
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Well the bible says that it was back in Johns's days

How does the Bible "say" it was back in John's day? What is stated explicitly declaring the antichrist was an NT era person? What does scripture state implying the antichrist was an NT era person?* Lots of folks say the Bible says things it nowhere states. The Bible does often imply things it does not state but often people infer things never intended, reading implications never justified. The latter gets conflated under the word "say" or "says." You just quoted from the relevant epistolary texts. What do they state? What do they imply? What can they be made to mean? What can the NOT be made to mean?

Thx for indulging this









*indulge me. I know I'm asking these questions of a like-minded poster and therefore "preaching to the choir," but walk with me through the text and I'll affirm it as warranted.
.

 

[Marty]

I would offer the counterfeit (false prophecy ) opposes the true teaching authority Christ in us as it is writen in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)

There is a legion of false prophets as false apostles today (antichrists) . The by the traditons of dying mankind take away the understanding of the Potter as if earthly inspired and not heavenly coming down like rain . . .the water of the word, the gospel of salvation

Satan, the Legion, the spirit of false prophets false apostles the "upside down counterfeiter"

Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

Read the four parts of scripture in post #114 or the OP that are the only places in the entire bible that mention antichrist and you will see that the spirit of antichrist isn’t trying to replace Jesus it’s just denying that Jesus is sent by God.

This is a completely different purpose and spirit of the sea beast in revelation which was trying to replace Jesus.

Keep in mind that the very same John penned those four verses and revelation.

 

[Marty]

How does the Bible "say" it was back in John's day? What is stated explicitly declaring the antichrist was an NT era person? What does scripture state implying the antichrist was an NT era person?* Lots of folks say the Bible says things it nowhere states. The Bible does often imply things it does not state but often people infer things never intended, reading implications never justified. The latter gets conflated under the word "say" or "says." You just quoted from the relevant epistolary texts. What do they state? What do they imply? What can they be made to mean? What can the NOT be made to mean?

Thx for indulging this









*indulge me. I know I'm asking these questions of a like-minded poster and therefore "preaching to the choir," but walk with me through the text and I'll affirm it as warranted.
.

I’m not sure if you are agreeing with me or not but the four verses I quoted do say that the spirit of antichrist was active in Johns day.

Scripture shows that the antichrist is a spirit and not a person and in Johns day according to Johns gospel the person example of the antichrist was apostate Israel

 

[Mr GLee]

Read the four parts of scripture in post #114 or the OP that are the only places in the entire bible that mention antichrist and you will see that the spirit of antichrist isn’t trying to replace Jesus it’s just denying that Jesus is sent by God.

This is a completely different purpose and spirit of the sea beast in revelation which was trying to replace Jesus.

Keep in mind that the very same John penned those four verses and revelation.

Anti = another. Christ = the anointing Holy Spirit, the infalible interpreter Simply false apostles moved by the father of lies the antichrist (singular) who works in many antichrists (plural) false teachers, bringing false prophecy (the oral traditons of dying mankind.

Simply a false teacher Peter one of the many antichrists' the father of lies legion put his words in the mouth of peter just as the serpent in the garden The false prophet Peter he prophecies as below. .



Mathew 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

The god of this world . Rebuking the unseen Lord and forbid the Son of man, Jesus from doing the will of God

Worldly Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man, Jesus. That 33 year window of opportunity closed when Jesus left

The deceivers same goal he has today deceive the whole world eternal God is a Jewish man as King of kings .Satan could no longer deceive all the nations God is a Jewish man as King of kings

When the veil rent that hid the holy of holies There was no Jewish man as King of kings sitting. Satan fell.

Satan would of never tried it pull that off with Jesus . It would appear Peter was jealous of Jesus over and over He wanted to be the greatest He learned who the greatest is. . . the invisible head, Christ the true King of kings and Lord of lords

 

[Josheb]

I’m not sure if you are agreeing with me or not but the four verses I quoted do say that the spirit of antichrist was active in Johns day.

Scripture shows that the antichrist is a spirit and not a person and in Johns day according to Johns gospel the person example of the antichrist was apostate Israel

I do agree with you. I was trying to highlight what scripture actually, literally, explicitly states. Then, after recognizing what is stated, determined what is implied. For example,


1 John 2:18-23
Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth. Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.


John explicitly states he was writing during the "last hour." It's not the last day, the last days, the last time, the last times, the end of the age, or the ends of the ages. Those are the other temporal markers scripture uses. A day, a time, an age can all be a very, very long time and modern futurists make them extremely long lasting (two millennia or more). John is much more specific. The hour has come, and it is the last one. What justification in scripture would there be for making an hour last 2000+ years?

None.

It is the last hour. John did not say, "The last hour will be coming soon," or "The last hour will come." The last hour had arrived. So what? What's so important about the last hour?

The antichrist is coming.

Oh!

That is pretty important.

The last hour had come upon the first century readers of John's epistles; it was there when John wrote the letter. Many antichrist had already appeared. We read the word "have" but that "have is not present-tense to us, it is present-tense to the original author and his original audience. For those of us living 2000 years later, the "have" is past tense. Children in the 21st century, it was the last hour back in the first century, the antichrist was coming and many antichrists had appeared at that time way back then. The reason they knew it was the last hour is because the antichrists had appeared. Antichrists were going to come in the last hour, they had come and, therefore, everyone in John's first century readership knew the last hour had arrived.

These are things the text states. They are not implied by the text, they are stated by the text. No one has to read what is stated and ask, "What can I infer in addition to what is stated?" and no one should be asking themselves about any inferences until and unless what is explicitly stated is accepted and believed.

Where'd these antichrists come from?

According to John the "many antichrists" that had arrived, "went out from us, but they were not really of us," so who is the "us" to which John is referring? In other words, who is John's readership?

1 John 1:5-7
This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

The "us" were those who have fellowship with God, walk in the Light, and whose sins have been cleansed by the blood of Christ. The antichrists were not really of that group. The text explicitly states they were not really of those cleansed by the blood. We can, therefore, infer they were poseurs because they had come from among those thusly cleansed but were not authentically so. Not really. If they had been authentically of those in John's readership who'd been cleansed by Christ's blood then they would have remained with the "us."

So, the antichrists were all former Christians .

Which also means they were humans. The text does not state that but if the antichrist came from those cleansed by the blood and those cleansed by the blood then the antichrists were humans. They weren't demons. If they were humans living in the first century during the last hour, then they have ALL died long ago and not a single one of them is alive today, 2000 years later. That is what the text itself implies. I don't need a doctrine to tell me that. Bare logic is sufficient.

What specifically was it that qualified those that had once been an inauthentic part of the "us," but weren't really, and had left? According to John, they could be recognized because they denied the Father and Son, and denied the Father and Son have each other. What is not explicitly stated but is implied is that they denied Jesus was the Christ (or Messiah or anointed one of prophecy).

• Many antichrists had come way back then in the first century.
• They came from among the Christians.
• They were not really Christians (they hadn't really been cleansed by Christ's blood).
• They were human.
• They denied the Son.
• The denied the Father.
• They denied the Father and Son have each other.
• They denied Jesus is the Christ.
• Because they had appeared, so too had the last hour.

John's first mention of "antichrist," covers all of the above explicitly. There is not warrant, nor any need to read anything more in the scripture. When I say there is not "warrant" in his letter for doing so I mean John says nothing indicating anything should be added. The idea something more is necessary or must be added to what he wrote comes from outside the text. It is extrabiblical, not biblical. For all of the above there is one antichrist in particular that was coming. Many had come. One in particular was coming in the last hour.

Did I miss anything? If so, please fill free to fill it in - just remember to stick to what is stated and what the text itself implies and NOT doctrinal interpretations adding to what the text states.


John goes on to mention the word "antichrist" one more time in this letter (1 Jn. 4:3). He uses the word a third time in his second letter (2 Jn. 1:7).

I'll let you exegete those mentions.