Revelation 17:8

[Josheb]

Why would it be about the Trinity though?

I do not think it is the Trinity. Perhaps I misread the prior post. I thought you were somehow tying the earthquake to Jesus' crucifixion and then the beast and then the Vatican and DC. That would be very problematic as far as the text itself goes, so I am pleased to have misread the post and better understand it now.

I thought it was about the apostate church...

How often do you find the word "church" in Revelation? While there may be allusions to Christians, Revelation is not predominantly about the Church. The letter was written to Christ's bondservants (Christians) to "show" them what would soon/quickly take place, but the Church is not explicitly mentioned after chapter 3, AND there's a LOT of content in that book that's not about the Church. Revelation 2:22 would be an example of the apostasy within the Church you mention but what ensues after the seven letters is not about problems within the body of Christ.

Jesus revealed what was coming to his bondservants so they would get out and get out of the way and not be killed by God. Any deaths among the ecclesia occurred as a product of persecution at the hands of Jerusalem first, and then Rome.

Revelation 7:9-15
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands................ Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?" I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. "For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.

Christians go through the great tribulation. ALL end times views asserting a pre-tribulational removal of Christians are wrong. The harlot of Rev. 17 is drunk on the saints' blood. The beast that supports her was about to come out of the abyss..... and go to its destruction (presumably for supporting the drunken slaughter of Christians ).

But you're correct. I went off topic now, so we can close this. I'll give what you said some thoughts and reconsider my thoughts on this.

 

[Tambora]

I believe the beast is a fallen angel. The angel of the abyss. The false prophet who acts in behalf of the beast is a man. Satan is given the keys of the abyss in the days of the sounding of the 5th trump of God and the beast that comes out of the abyss overpowers and kills Gods two witnesses as spoken of in Rev 11.

I am of the opinion that all 3 (dragon, beast, false prophet) could all be demonic entities of the spirit realm because of:

Revelation 16 ESV​

(13) And I saw, coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs.​

(14) For they are demonic spirits, performing signs, who go abroad to the kings of the whole world, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty.​

Ephesians 6
(12) For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

 

[Marty]

“The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come. Rev 17:8.


Who, or what, is this beast?

Personally, I believe it is the antichrist system.

Hello Carbon, did you get a chance to check out post #4 yet? You were asking for scripture back up.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

“The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come. Rev 17:8.


Who, or what, is this beast?

Personally, I believe it is the antichrist system.

The final beast of Daniels gentile kingdoms

He was (rome at the time of Christ)
He was not (rome has no real power today)
he is about to come to power again.
he will be defeated at the return of Christ.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

A few reasons are

Nero Cesar comes out to 666 (rev 13)

Rome almost collapsed before it was revived just before 70AD (the fatal wound that healed rev 17)

Daniel chapter 10 shows us that demonic beings are kings and princes over nations and their leaders

A single person can’t be “once was now is not and yet will come out of the abyss” (rev 17)

People aren’t cast into hell alive all people will be judged (rev 19)

A single person can’t be 7 hills, 8 kings and 7 heads (rev 17)

Nero was the 6th king and Galba was the 7th who reigned for a short time (rev 17)

Rome destroyed Jerusalem for Gods purpose, I believe Jerusalem to be Babylon the great (rev 17)

Nero had a 3 1/2 year persecution against the church (rev 13)

Nero demanded to be worshipped as god (rev 13)

The false prophet who I believe to be apostate Israel convinced the unbelieving Jews claim Cesar as their king (rev 13)

Nero was the people of the prince who is to Come.

He would have been the legs of Iron. not the feet of Iron and Clay.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I believe this has not only a historical reference but also a symbolic one.

could it be a future reference?

 

[Carbon]

Hello Carbon, did you get a chance to check out post #4 yet? You were asking for scripture back up.

So, if I understand correctly, you also believe it is antchristian nations?

 

[Carbon]

The final beast of Daniels gentile kingdoms

He was (rome at the time of Christ)
He was not (rome has no real power today)
he is about to come to power again.
he will be defeated at the return of Christ.

Okay??

 

[Carbon]

Nero was the people of the prince who is to Come.

He would have been the legs of Iron. not the feet of Iron and Clay.

Are you referencing to Daniel 9?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Okay??

what is the question.. anything in particular?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Are you referencing to Daniel 9?

no. Dan 2:

40 And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron, inasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and shatters everything; and like iron that crushes, that kingdom will break in pieces and crush all the others. 41 Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. 43 As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay.

This can not be Nero's kingdom of Rome. or rome at the time of Christ.it does not fit


44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. 45 inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold—the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”

that fourth kingdom. of whom the beast you saw in revelation will come out of. (the antichrist) will be defeated by the rock or christ himself. and he will set up his kingdom at that time,

 

[Marty]

Nero was the people of the prince who is to Come.

He would have been the legs of Iron. not the feet of Iron and Clay.

Actually I don't believe Rome to be any part of the statue in Daniel chapter 2 and Nero was dead before 70AD.

 

[Marty]

So, if I understand correctly, you also believe it is antchristian nations?

First I do see the antichrist and the sea beast to be separate demonic beings but as I stated in my previous post #2, I believe the sea beast to be a demonic being influencing Rome and it’s leaders mainly Nero if the first century

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Actually I don't believe Rome to be any part of the statue in Daniel chapter 2 and Nero was dead before 70AD.

so who was the legs of Iron, and the feet of Iron and clay.

They defeated greece and came to be the next kingdom. who was it, if not for Rome?

 

[Marty]

so who was the legs of Iron, and the feet of Iron and clay.

They defeated greece and came to be the next kingdom. who was it, if not for Rome?

I see them as Greece

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I see them as Greece

greece was the third empire. or the belly and thighs of bronze.

It is also the third beast of Daniel 7, or the leopard with 4 wings, the leopard represented alexander the great. and his kingdom was split into 4 parts after he died.

 

[Marty]

greece was the third empire. or the belly and thighs of bronze.

It is also the third beast of Daniel 7, or the leopard with 4 wings, the leopard represented alexander the great. and his kingdom was split into 4 parts after he died.

I see it differently but the Goat in chapter 8 is Alexander the great not the leopard

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I see it differently but the Goat in chapter 8 is Alexander the great not the leopard

I am talking about Dan 2 and Dan 7

4 kingdoms

We see from histroy there were four

1st was babylon, who destroyed jerusalem.
2nd was media Persian who took over Jerusalem from babylon
3rd. Was greece, who defeated the Medes and Persians.
And finally was rome, who defeated grace and was in power when Jesus was born

 

[Marty]

I am talking about Dan 2 and Dan 7

4 kingdoms

We see from histroy there were four

1st was babylon, who destroyed jerusalem.
2nd was media Persian who took over Jerusalem from babylon
3rd. Was greece, who defeated the Medes and Persians.
And finally was rome, who defeated grace and was in power when Jesus was born

Yes but Daniel only shows Babylon, Media and then Persia then in chapter 10 Daniel is told that Greece will come.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Yes but Daniel only shows Babylon, Media and then Persia then in chapter 10 Daniel is told that Greece will come.

No he shows 4 kingdoms in chapter 2 and chapter 7, (actually he shows 5) in chapter 8 he focuses more on two of these kingdoms..