Which person in the Trinity is the Judge?

[JIM]

Who made that rule?

Where have you read or where do you find otherwise?

If there is only one God, then there is only one divine Being.

Then what did God mean by the plural "Elohim"

Who made that rule?

Just seems reasonable. Abraham appears not to have needed the scriptures.

 

[JIM]

When did the word "forsaken" change its definition to "separation?"

So then Jesus was simply appealing to another manifestation of Himself.

 

[Eleanor]

Where have you read or where do you find otherwise?

1) See post #271, where the NT presents the Holy Spirit as having personal functions.

2) See Jn 16:13-14, where Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit with the personal pronoun:
"but when the one comes, the Spirit of Truth, he will guide you into all truth."

Just seems reasonable.

Which is the major error of your exegesis. . .it is based on what you see as "reasonable," rather than what the text actually states in the context of all the NT.

Abraham appears not to have needed the scriptures.

Neither would we if God spoke everything to us directly.

I don't know how much more work in the Scriptures I am going to do for you when you can do for yourself.

 

[Eleanor]

So then Jesus was simply appealing to another manifestation of Himself.

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not manifestations, they are distinct persons.

 

[JIM]

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not manifestations, they are distinct persons.

I agree. However, as I think I said earlier, I prefer the term being rather than person. They are three separate and distinct Spirit beings. I still think of persons as human beings not spiritual beings. But perhaps that is just me.

 

[JIM]

I have experiential knowledge of the Holy Spirit.

Filling with the Holy Spirit can give experiential knowledge of him.

I don't believe that. All of our knowledge of God, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, is faith based not experience based. Were it otherwise in any sense, then there would be no need for faith. But in all of our relationship with God, faith is key. It is front and center with the whole and why of creation. I believe that seeking people of faith to populate the kingdom of heaven (God) is God's purpose for this entire creation.

 

[JIM]

In other words, the Father is still there with the Son according to the Divine Nature.

Even your statement that "the Father is still there" implies distinct, different and, yes, separate beings for the Father and the Son.

 

[Ritajanice]

Our knowledge of God comes from divine revelation, Faith is also a gift from God, we must be Born Again then we have the faith to know God in our spirit, only Gods Living witness can perform that supernatural act....

Therefore becoming Born Again is a Living supernatural/ spiritual experience...you can’t read yourself into the Kingdom Of God.

After receiving the gift of Faith, when we have been Born Of God’s seed, who is the Holy Spirit..indwelling our heart/ spirit permanently, Spirit gives birth to spirit.....it will start to grow!.....took me many years to understand faith that I was gifted with from God.....even though I can’t see God I know his Spirit is in my heart working everything out according to his purpose and plan for my life......now I know that, it’s set me free from doubt.....over to you Lord I can’t do anything, only you can sort this mess out and he does!!....He has never let me down, my trust and belief is in him and no other....I never go to any other now with a problem...I go straight to the Holy Spirit who indwells my heart.

My opinion/ testimony and belief.

 

[Eleanor]

I agree. However, as I think I said earlier, I prefer the term being rather than person. They are three separate and distinct Spirit beings. I still think of persons as human beings not spiritual beings. But perhaps that is just me.

What you prefer is not ontologically consistent.

 

[Eleanor]

I don't believe that.

It doesn't depend on your belief.

All of our knowledge of God, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, is faith based not experience based.

And if your faith doesn't bring personal experience, you are missing out.

Were it otherwise in any sense, there would be no need for faith.

Other than it comes only through faith.

But in all of our relationship with God, faith is key. It is front and center with the whole and why of creation. I believe that
seeking people of faith to populate the kingdom of heaven (God) is God's purpose for this entire creation.

God is sovereign (Da 4:35). . .he ordains rather than seeks.

Your God is too small.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Agree. But I would put it a little different. The Hebrew word for soul is "nephesh" (Gen 2:7) That is the same word used in Genesis 1:21 which is translated as "creature". This it speaks of both man and animals as living creatures, living souls, living beings. Animals, blooded animals, are spoken of in the OT as being soulish creatures. Thus, animals are souls, living beings. They have bodies. Human beings are souls, living beings, we have bodies and spirits.

Agreed. But also, be aware that "soul" and "spirit" in the OT in places is used interchangeably and because of this more consideration should be offered to correctly understand which/what is being referred.

It is in man's spirit that he has been made in God's image. (Gen 1:26-27; 9:6; Zech 12:1; Eccl 12:7) The single biggest distinction between man and animal is that man has a spirit, animals do not. Man is a soul and has a body and a spirit. Animal is a soul and has a body but no spirit.

Disagree. The image of God the Father is the Son. There is no better image of a Father than a Son. Adam/man is of the earth, earthy, while the Son is the Lord from heaven (1 Cor. 15.) We are not being conformed into Adam; we are being conformed into the image of Christ. It's a thread being stitched that connects us to God's seed which is Christ and Christ in us. God created the man and the woman body, soul, and human spirit - not Holy Spirit - and when they both sinned again, they were told "in the day" that you eat of it (the tree) thou shalt not merely die, but surely die. Their bodies did not die "in the day" they ate of the tree. Their souls did not die "in the day" they ate from the tree. It was their human spirit that died "in the day" they ate from the tree and the result of this was a change in the communication between God and man.

Thus, every child born from Adam and Eve were born body and soul, no human spirit. In this condition they could not pass on to their child a human spirit since spirit is spirit and matter is matter and completely foreign to their DNA. If the Lord does not intervene in a person's life and they die body and soul, they are cast into "hell." But a person who is born again God creates a new human spirit in and for that and all born again person's and man is restored to a trichotomy of body, soul, human spirit and in this are the image of God who is Trinity: Body, Soul, and Spirit. The human spirit God creates for that person, and all born again people can now process spiritual phenomenon and communicate spiritually with God who is Spirit.

Those not born again:
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Mt 10:27–28.

Those that are born again:
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Eph 4:24.

This is the only "thing" saved of our person. Our soul and body have not been impacted by our born-again experience and we remain unchanged. In effect we are "one-third" saved.

Saul's benediction and prayer for those born-again:
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thess. 5:23.

When Christ returns, He is bringing the completion of our redemption. Our body will be changed in the twinkle twinkle of an eye and our soul will be cleansed of all tainting of sin.

When speaking of or about man in both the OT and the NT, particularly the NT, the soul and the spirit are used interchangeably. Not so with animals.

Disagree. When Adam sinned, his spirit was damaged or depraved. That damage is described as being dead. But it is still in existence. That is why it needs to be reborn (John 3:1-15; 5:24-26). That rebirth is variously described as newness of life (Rom 6:4), a new creature in Christ (2 Cor 5:17), putting on Christ (Gal 3:27), a new man (Eph 4:24), a circumcision made without hands (Col 2:11), made alive together with Him having forgiven us all our trespasses (Col 2:13), the washing of regeneration and renewal of(by) the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5).

Christ rules the spirit realm. Adam could not pass on in new life a dead spirit. Being a dead spirit, it was lost to Adam and the woman "in the day" they ate from the tree. God said it died (and a little facetious, but I'm sure God went to the funeral and buried it far, far away into oblivion. In Ephesians 4:24 the word "created" transliterated into Hebrew is the word "bara," which is used of God in Genesis of creating something out of nothing. When we are born again God doesn't resurrect a "dead human spirit" He creates one anew out of nothing.

You're also confusing Scripture that you've posted above. One "circumcision" has nothing to do with a new human spirit but the "heart" which means "the whole being of a person". You are confusing meanings above.

All of that about the soul is purely conjecture. It has no real confirmation in scripture. As I said each of us is a soul, a living being. We each have a body and a spirit.

As born again yes, we do have a NEW human spirit created by God out of thin air. Our soul is comprised of intellect, mind, emotions, senses, conscience, and will. Even after being born again these are still under the effects of sin (and death.)

I do not believe that the body will ever be "glorified".

1Co 15:42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable.
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power.
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Our bodies will not be glorified. We will be raised to a new spiritual "body". We don't really know what that is.


And I will leave it there.

If not glorified, we cannot get into "heaven" which to me is the Person of God. Heaven is not eternal. Our two heavens of sky and space are not eternal, neither is there a "place" or location" that is eternal for eternalness is an Attribute and Nature of God and He gives His glory (eternalness) to NO ONE.

Pay attention:

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1 Co 15:50–56.

Immortality and incorruptibility is glorification.

We will become holy which also is a glory without which we will not see God.

Blessed are the pure in "heart" for they shall see God.

 

[Binyawmene]

So then Jesus was simply appealing to another manifestation of Himself.

Non sequitur.

The Divine Nature is automatically present in the union to the human nature by the logical conjunction of the Son-Person. Which he is in presence of both natures simultaneously without the Divine Nature being physically birth. The Father is in the Son, and the Son is in the human nature. That doesn't mean both the Father and the Holy Spirit are in the human nature too. If that was the case, then the distinction here is Son's person is existing in two distinct ways simultaneously. The Father and the Holy Spirit doesn't exist in two distinct ways with the Son. And that both the Father and the Holy Spirit doesn't have that personal underlying existence in the human nature while the Son does by the Hypostatic Union. Because all three persons are subsisting in the Divine Nature and in each other. The Father would automatically be inseparably present with the Son during his incarnation according to the Divine Nature. And they are functioning or working together through the Divine Nature based on the perichoresis.

Even your statement that "the Father is still there" implies distinct, different and, yes, separate beings for the Father and the Son.

My statement is very clear.

...the Father is still there with the Son according to the Divine Nature.​

Jesus Christ have two inseparable natures, a Divine Nature and a human nature.

The two natures that cannot be separated from one another in the union. This can be understood by the Divine Nature always having 'constant' and 'continuous' inseparable presence with the human nature. The Divine Nature will always undergo any form of circumstances together with the human nature in all aspects without being subjected or under the control to what is occurring in the human nature itself because the Divine Nature is impassible. While the human nature doesn't function independently without the Divine Nature being present. And the Divine Nature itself is never present anywhere in isolation and in separation from the human nature. Because the two natures cannot be disjoined from their union since there is a conjunction between both natures which is an equivalent to the present of both in all circumstances only according to the human nature."

Forsaken doesn't mean separation or a broken union in the Trinity and Hypostatic Union. There is no separation between the Father and the Son. The Father is still there with the Son according to the Divine Nature. The Father did, however, condemn our sins in his human nature (Romans 8:3) and he didn't condemn Son along with our sins. The Persons don’t act independently from one another without the other being present. The Father who sent the Son is always with the Son, “The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him”. (John 8:29) “because whatever the Father does the Son also does”. (John 5:19. Both the Father and the Son are distinct and inseparable from each other. They do not act outside in isolation and in separation from the Divine Nature. God is undivided and indivisible. The Father is always with the Son, even in his incarnate state. Not in a way of incarnation to the human nature, but rather, according to inseparable Divine Nature. Therefore, the Divine Nature is automatically present in union by the logical conjunction of “God the Son,” which is the equivalent and presence of both simultaneously.

 

[jeremiah1five]

And some know more than you. Some, less

That sounds too much like Reformed Theology. I do not want to go there now.

Yes, I know the difference. Mark, Luke and John spoke of the kingdom of God. They did not speak of the Kingdom of heaven. Matthew spoke mostly of the kingdom of heaven but occasionally the kingdom of God. I think they are one and the same.

Yeah. I learned that some know more than you, some less.

There is a difference between kingdom of God and kingdom of heaven.

Kingdom of heaven is the New Jerusalem coming down and remaining above the earth.

The kingdom of God is Christ Himself.

At the time Jesus spoke of the kingdom of God there was no kingdom, no land/realm, no subjects, the twelve tribes were some lost after the Assyrian conquest and exile, some assimilated with the tribe of Judah and Benjamin in Babylon when Judah was conquered, and those two tribes taken back to Babylon and exiled them there. What Babylon took from Assyria was the remaining people of the ten northern tribes and in Babylon is when Judaism began and those in exile in Babylon were also called Ephraim for, they were trying to maintain some semblance of national identity with the ten tribes who were less in population but nevertheless still a cognizant people. I posted Matthew 12:28. Did Jesus' words go past you?

28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Mt 12:28.

What is Jesus doing? He's casting out "devils" by the Spirit of God. In effect He is saying I am the kingdom of God.

The word "kingdom" is defined as "royalty." Properly, according to Strong.
Jesus is saying I am royalty despite the Greek word being translated "kingdom" instead of "king" which Vine's root word is "king." And Jesus is a King. He is royalty to God who sent Him before Pilate nailed His accusation on His cross. Some wanted to take Jesus forcibly and declare/make Him king, but Jesus avoided these people. That wasn't His purpose in coming to Israel. He was Isaiah's "Suffering Servant" and later He will return a "Conquering King."
But Jesus' words are not lost on me. This passage does show that He is the agent through whom God's reign is being realized on earth. Jesus embodies the kingdom in the sense that He brings God's rule and authority into the world through His words and deeds.
Jesus does signify that He is bringing about God's reign, and His actions are evidence of that reality. In this way, I argue that Jesus is indeed demonstrating His kingly authority, but it's an authority tied to the divine rule rather than to a physical kingdom. That's how I see it.

Then there is this:
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Lk 17:20–21.

The kingdom of God is within you. That's exactly what Christ does when one is born again.
Here, Jesus is emphasizing that the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed or located geographically. It's not a political or physical realm that can be pointed to. Instead, the kingdom of God is something deeper, more spiritual, and internal.

My understanding—that Christ indwells the believer through the born-again experience—aligns with this passage. When Jesus says, "the kingdom of God is within you", He is pointing to the spiritual reality that God's reign and presence are manifested within the "hearts" and lives of those who believe in Him.

If we understand the kingdom of God as God's active reign and authority, then it makes sense that this reign is present wherever Christ is acknowledged and received. Since Christ indwells believers through the Holy Spirit, the kingdom of God is present within them because Christ, who is the King, resides within them.

So, while the term "kingdom" typically refers to God's rule rather than to Christ Himself as the kingdom, it's not a stretch to see how the presence of Christ within a believer embodies the presence of the kingdom. Jesus' indwelling brings God's reign into the life of the believer, making the kingdom of God an internal reality rather than an external one and identifying Himself as that kingdom (royalty) within the person.

The passage supports the idea that the kingdom of God is not about a physical location as is the kingdom of heaven, but rather about God's rule through Christ in the lives of believers. While Jesus may not explicitly say "I am the kingdom," He embodies the kingdom because He brings God's rule to the world and to the hearts of those who follow Him.

Just sayin'.

 

[Eleanor]

Even your statement that "the Father is still there" implies distinct, different and, yes, separate beings for the Father and the Son.

Distinct, not separate. . .one Being, one God, not several.

 

[Ladodgers6]

My answer is the person of the Son. I could be wrong about this and the reason why I'm asking the question. Looking for an honest and sincere answer. If someone has the kindness to give one. This is how I've drawn my conclusion. First, the Father is a covenant title of God (1 Peter 1:17). And that "God is a righteous judge" (Psalm 7:11) and "the Lord, the righteous Judge" (2 Timothy 4:8), but yet "There is only one Lawgiver and Judge" (James 4:12). I also read in the Bible that "It is God who judges" (Psalm 75:7) and that "the Father judges no one" (John 5:22), but yet, "God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ" (Romans 2:16, Revelation 2:23). After all, the Son is omniscient and knows all people (Jeremiah 17:10, John 2:24-25, Matthew 9:4, Mark 2:8, Luke 5:22, John 6:64, Revelation 2:23). I would assume that every time I read about, God or Lord being the judge, then it's not in reference to the person of the Father in the Trinity.

- The Son is the Judge

1. Abraham pleads to the LORD for Sodom (John 8:58, Genesis 18:16-33, vs. 25).​

2. The Father is not the judge (John 5:22, Acts 10:42, 17:30-31).​

3. The Son is the universal judge (Revelation 20:11-13, Matthew 25:31-46).​

4. Judge of the living and the dead (2 Timothy 4:1, Acts 10:42).​

5. The Son is God and God's judgment (Romans 2:3, 2 Thessalonians 1:5).​

6. Judgement seat is interlinked with "Christ" and "God" (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 14:10).​

Let's ask you a question, before I give you my honest response. First of all, do you believe in the Trinity? If so, explain it foe me. If not, why not? Thanks in advance.​

 

[Binyawmene]

Let's ask you a question, before I give you my honest response. First of all, do you believe in the Trinity? If so, explain it foe me. If not, why not? Thanks in advance.​

Yes, I believe in the Trinity. In this thread you can also read post 265, and we can go into a deeper discussion about it too. The word "Trinity" is Latin, and it mean "three in one." The Trinity teaches that there is only one God in three distinct persons (of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit), and the persons are co-equal and co-eternal. As for the OP, you can also answer this question on post 25 thank you.

 

[Ladodgers6]

Yes, I believe in the Trinity. In this thread you can also read post 265, and we can go into a deeper discussion about it too. The word "Trinity" is Latin, and it mean "three in one." The Trinity teaches that there is only one God in three distinct persons (of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit), and the persons are co-equal and co-eternal. As for the OP, you can also answer this question on post 25 thank you.

Thanks for clarifying. May I ask another question, why do you seek this question?

 

[Binyawmene]

Thanks for clarifying. May I ask another question, why do you seek this question?

Because I'm looking for Scriptural examples for the Deity of Christ.

Examples,

a). The Son is the Creator
b). The Son is God
c). The Son is the Lord
d). The Son's Divine Attributes
e). The Son's Divine Titles/Names
f). The Son's glory
g). The Son is worshipped
h). The Son is the Savior

And, of course, I want to add to my list
i). The Son is the Judge

Fact checking is always good. It needs to be studied out and discussed out. If you want to challenge "the Son is the Judge," then I'm cool with that too.

 

[Runningman]

I don't believe that. All of our knowledge of God, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, is faith based not experience based. Were it otherwise in any sense, then there would be no need for faith. But in all of our relationship with God, faith is key. It is front and center with the whole and why of creation. I believe that seeking people of faith to populate the kingdom of heaven (God) is God's purpose for this entire creation.

I believe the idea of faith being blind isn't what the writers of the Bible had in mind.

Faith fundamentally means to trust so we need to place our trust in what we already know to be true. Yes, often times what we know to be true may be something only we have experienced and others may not be able to experience themselves, yet. This is why our witness is so important, yet we are witnessing of something we have experienced because it's genuine and not merely done for the sake of appearances.

That being said, I truly hope you get to experience God some day.

 

[Eleanor]

Because I'm looking for Scriptural examples for the Deity of Christ.

Jn 1:1, 14.