Where was the Sabbath Abolished?

[STAND]

Yes. Matthew 23:2-3.

Sorry, Jesus never once taught anything about sacrificial ordinances.

He taught the 10 Commandments and Matt. 23:1-3 is referring to the 10 Commandments that Christ taught repeatedly and that His followers obeyed after His death.

Biblical facts.

 

[STAND]

No proof for this.

Prove your ridiculous claim that there were Israelites home with the sniffles during the Mt. Sinai event.

Moses later told them all to distribute the Covenant to their families for all generations to come so he obviously wasn't referencing their family members that were at home under the weather. That was addressed.

He spoke of the strangers (non-Israelites) and then specified all those not present.

I've presented plain Scripture. Now produce some to support your desperate unbiblical version.

 

[STAND]

See the epistles; e.g., Ro 13:8-10, and related passages.

What is your theory as to why Christ taught the 10 Commandments, made a point of obeying them all, and why His followers obeyed them after His death?

Because they were completely insignificant?

Why did God speak them aloud from a mountain top, (which almost resulted in the death by heart attack of many of the Israelites) and carve them IN STONE with His own finger ... twice?

Because they were temporary?

 

[Fred]

Prove your ridiculous claim that there were Israelites home with the sniffles during the Mt. Sinai event.

See the first part of post 71 which you left out.



Furthermore, this from the bottom of the page in post 75:

Go ahead and explain why 9 of the Ten Commandments are repeated in the New Covenant, but the 7th day Sabbath Old Covenant command is not repeated.

 

[Fred]

Sorry, Jesus never once taught anything about sacrificial ordinances.

You should be sorry, because you ignored Mark 1:44.

 

[Eleanor]

You're very clearly implying that Christ's entire ministry became obsolete upon His death.

That significantly contradicts the Bible.

You must Biblically demonstrate your assertion for it to have any Biblical merit.

 

[Eleanor]

What is your theory as to why Christ taught the 10 Commandments, made a point of obeying them all, and why His followers obeyed them after His death?

See post #63, #77 and Mt 23:37-40, Ro 13:8-10, 1 Co 9:20.

 

[STAND]

See the first part of post 71 which you left out.



Furthermore, this from the bottom of the page in post 75:

Go ahead and explain why 9 of the Ten Commandments are repeated in the New Covenant, but the 7th day Sabbath Old Covenant command is not repeated.

I already addressed that and I'm not obligated to interact with anybody here.

I plainly don't like you or the way you interact.

God bless.

 

[STAND]

You must Biblically demonstrate your assertion for it to have any Biblical merit.

I'm not seeking "merit" with you, Fred.

See post #63, #77 and Mt 23:37-40, Ro 13:8-10, 1 Co 9:20.

So you have no answer.

Gotcha.

 

[Fred]

I already addressed that

If that's your excuse for a response then I feel sorry for anyone that you happen to teach.

and I'm not obligated to interact with anybody here.

The same with anyone else.

I plainly don't like you

I don't care.

or the way you interact.

Because your false teaching is not supported by the Bible.

 

[Eleanor]

I'm not seeking "merit" with you.

So you have no answer.

Gotcha.

Regrettable that Scripture does not qualify as an answer for you. . .

 

[Arial]

Uh no. That wouldn't account for the fact that Jesus created the 10 Commandments (Jn. 1:1,3, 14) ...

...taught them (Matt. 5:19-20; 23:1-3) ...

...obeyed them all (John 15:10) ...

...and His closest followers (the first CHRISTIANS) obeyed them after His death (Lk. 23:54-56).

None of that has anything at all to do with anybody's race or pre-Christian religion.

Jesus was a Jew born under the Law, therefore subject to it, as completion of perfect righteousness.
His closest followers were also under the Law.

Jesus fulfilled all of the Law and became our Sabbath rest. (Hebrews)

There is confusion within the Christian community and in our conversations, as to what it means that the Law became obsolete without it's being abolished. It was not abolished, it was fulfilled, and is not longer needed. This relates to the Mosaic Covenant Law. When it says we are no longer under law, it means that there are no written, legal, requirements in the New Covenant as there were in the old. It does not mean that we are not to be obedient to God.

The Sabbath had laws in the old covenant. And Sabbath merely means rest. It was given to man as a day to remember God as Creator and Ruler over all, and our labor ceased as His was at creation. We find that spiritual rest in the person and work of Christ. But it is not written as law, and Gal tells us that some honor one day and some another---there is no Law. And where there is no Law concerning a matter, there is no breaking of Law.

 

[Eleanor]

Jesus was a Jew born under the Law, therefore subject to it, as completion of perfect righteousness.
His closest followers were also under the Law.
Jesus fulfilled all of the Law and became our Sabbath rest. (Hebrews)
There is confusion within the Christian community and in our conversations, as to what it means that the Law became obsolete without it's being abolished. It was not abolished, it was fulfilled, and is not longer needed. This relates to the Mosaic Covenant Law. When it says we are no longer under law, it means that there are no written, legal, requirements in the New Covenant as there were in the old. It does not mean that we are not to be obedient to God.
The Sabbath had laws in the old covenant. And Sabbath merely means rest. It was given to man as a day to remember God as Creator and Ruler over all, and our labor ceased as His was at creation. We find that spiritual rest in the person and work of Christ. But it is not written as law, and Gal tells us that some honor one day and some another---there is no Law. And where there is no Law concerning a matter, there is no breaking of Law.

We are no longer under the curse of the law.
We have the fulfillment of the law living in us, our subordination is to him.

 

[STAND]

Jesus was a Jew born under the Law, therefore subject to it, as completion of perfect righteousness.
His closest followers were also under the Law.

Jesus fulfilled all of the Law and became our Sabbath rest. (Hebrews)

There is confusion within the Christian community and in our conversations, as to what it means that the Law became obsolete without it's being abolished. It was not abolished, it was fulfilled, and is not longer needed. This relates to the Mosaic Covenant Law. When it says we are no longer under law, it means that there are no written, legal, requirements in the New Covenant as there were in the old. It does not mean that we are not to be obedient to God.

The Sabbath had laws in the old covenant. And Sabbath merely means rest. It was given to man as a day to remember God as Creator and Ruler over all, and our labor ceased as His was at creation. We find that spiritual rest in the person and work of Christ. But it is not written as law, and Gal tells us that some honor one day and some another---there is no Law. And where there is no Law concerning a matter, there is no breaking of Law.

With all due respect, none of that explains why Christ would've taught the 10 Commandments. His followers were the "first Christians." There's no debating that.

Christian = follower of Christ.

That's what a Christian is, that's what a Christian is supposed to do. 1 Jn. 2:6 supports that.

Jesus taught them specifically, made a point of the fact that He followed them all and His followers obeyed them after His Crucifixion because they were Christians.

Let's talk about the passage in Hebrews that so many misinterpret. Tell me the verses that are included in the part you believe teach that the Sabbath is no longer necessary for Christians.

We'll exegete it together, in depth, for all to see.

Rev. 3:10 & 14:12 speak of what it takes for God to consider one a saint, and they are most certainly not referring to loving everyone as so many today have been falsely led to believe.

 

[Arial]

With all due respect, none of that explains why Christ would've taught the 10 Commandments. His followers were the "first Christians." There's no debating that.

Christian = follower of Christ.

They were not called Christians until after Pentecost---post crucifixion, resurrection, ascension. Those who followed Him during His lifetime on earth, His mission on earth, were under the law and the law was still in effect.

Jesus taught them specifically, made a point of the fact that He followed them all and His followers obeyed them after His Crucifixion because they were Christians.

They obeyed them after the crucifixion because they were Jewish---if they did---and there is no evidence that all of them did. It was one of the things that plagued the apostolic church. Judaizers insisting that Gentile believers had to obey the Mosaic Law. A Council was held to settle the matter, and it did not just involve circumcision. Acts 15:5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses." 8-10 ANd God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, having cleanses their hearts by faith, Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers no we have been able to bear."
And this was the judgement at the Council. Verses 20-21 but should write the them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.
There is no mention of Sabbath keeping in there and what is mentioned is not given as Law within the New Covenant. Romans 14: 4-6 it says Who are you to pass judgement on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord, The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

Let's talk about the passage in Hebrews that so many misinterpret. Tell me the verses that are included in the part you believe teach that the Sabbath is no longer necessary for Christians.

We'll exegete it together, in depth, for all to see.

I will do this in a separate post due to length, and it will have to wait until I have the time to devote proper attention to it. If you may be thinking that I will back away from this challenge, think again. I embrace it.

 

[Eleanor]

With all due respect, none of that explains why Christ would've taught the 10 Commandments.

Christ was born, lived, preached and died under the Old Covenant.
That explains why Christ taught OC law.

His followers were the "first Christians." There's no debating that.
Christian = follower of Christ.

That's what a Christian is, that's what a Christian is supposed to do. 1 Jn. 2:6 supports that.

There were no "NT Christians" (those saved by faith in and trust on the atoning work--blood, Ro 3:25--and person of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sin) until after the resurrection.

Jesus taught them specifically, made a point of the fact that He followed them all and His followers obeyed them after His Crucifixion because they were Christians.

Let's talk about the passage in Hebrews that so many misinterpret. Tell me the verses that are included in the part you believe teach that the Sabbath is no longer necessary for Christians.

It is not "no longer necessary for Christians," it is changed from rest from physical works to rest from spiritual works for salvation.

Heb 3:7-4:11 presents "another" Sabbath rest for the people of God (Heb 4:8-10), where they rest from their own work to save and in Christ's work which saves (Heb 4:11).

OT Sabbath rest was a figure/type of NT Sabbath rest from works to save.
The OT type is now fulfilled, and we no longer live under the OT type/figure, but in the type's NT spiritual reality, Jesus Christ, who has completed the work of atonement for us.

 

[STAND]

They were not called Christians until after Pentecost---post crucifixion, resurrection, ascension. Those who followed Him during His lifetime on earth, His mission on earth, were under the law and the law was still in effect.

They obeyed them after the crucifixion because they were Jewish---if they did---and there is no evidence that all of them did. It was one of the things that plagued the apostolic church. Judaizers insisting that Gentile believers had to obey the Mosaic Law. A Council was held to settle the matter, and it did not just involve circumcision. Acts 15:5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses." 8-10 ANd God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, having cleanses their hearts by faith, Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers no we have been able to bear."
And this was the judgement at the Council. Verses 20-21 but should write the them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.
There is no mention of Sabbath keeping in there and what is mentioned is not given as Law within the New Covenant. Romans 14: 4-6 it says Who are you to pass judgement on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord, The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

I will do this in a separate post due to length, and it will have to wait until I have the time to devote proper attention to it. If you may be thinking that I will back away from this challenge, think again. I embrace it.

That's great. Looking forward to it.

Whether they had been 'coined' Christians yet, or not, is beside the point. They were followers of Christ. Christianity is very different from Judaism. The people preparing Christ's body for burial were His closest followers, there is no question. Lk. 23:54-56 plainly declares that these people observed the Sabbath in the middle of that process, there is no question.

To claim that they were doing this out of some hard-to-break old Jewish habits is to step away from sincerity and from the Biblical evidence.

You say Hebrews declares that the Sabbath is now changed for Christians and we are no longer to observe it. Do you realize you are then implying that there was a time when Christians were to observe it? If so, when did that time begin and end?

Hebrews also supports the fact that the Bible says that portions of the Law were done away with at the Cross.
Eph. 2:15
Col. 2:14
Heb. 9:10

If the Commandments ended at the Cross, then why do we see Jesus' followers observing Sabbath AFTER that fact?

If the Commandments did NOT end at the Cross, then where exactly do you contend that they ended?

All very important points to this discussion.

 

[Fred]

Whether they had been 'coined' Christians yet, or not, is beside the point. They were followers of Christ. Christianity is very different from Judaism. The people preparing Christ's body for burial were His closest followers, there is no question. Lk. 23:54-56 plainly declares that these people observed the Sabbath in the middle of that process, there is no question.

To claim that they were doing this out of some hard-to-break old Jewish habits is to step away from sincerity and from the Biblical evidence.

The NT Church did not yet begin (Acts 2:4).

This is also why the Old Covenant practice of casting lots was never seen again by believers after Acts 1:26.

 

[Arial]

The people preparing Christ's body for burial were His closest followers, there is no question. Lk. 23:54-56 plainly declares that these people observed the Sabbath in the middle of that process, there is no question.

Because it was still Law.

To claim that they were doing this out of some hard-to-break old Jewish habits is to step away from sincerity and from the Biblical evidence.

On Luke they didn't even know that He was risen or would rise. And they did not really understand the implications of His rising until they remembered things that He had said, and as to the eleven, not until He had explained all things in the forty days with them before His ascension. Not only that the Law had not yet become obsolete.

You say Hebrews declares that the Sabbath is now changed for Christians and we are no longer to observe it. Do you realize you are then implying that there was a time when Christians were to observe it? If so, when did that time begin and end?

I never said Gentiles or Gentile believers ever observed it. You are conflating a bit.

If the Commandments ended at the Cross, then why do we see Jesus' followers observing Sabbath AFTER that fact?

If the Commandments did NOT end at the Cross, then where exactly do you contend that they ended?

They ended as Law. I have already addressed that.

 

[Mr GLee]

Let's talk about the passage in Hebrews that so many misinterpret. Tell me the verses that are included in the part you believe teach that the Sabbath is no longer necessary for Christians.

Ceremonial laws as a parable are shadows that point to substrance the 24/7 rest or called the sabbath .Hebrew 4
When the first century reformation came the shadows disappeared.

Hebrew 8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Those that did not mix the temporal dying seen with the unseen eternal thing of God in that parable . They did not rest No rest in shadows a fast

Hebrew 4:4 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Anytime we hear his word and do not hardened our heart we have entered resting with him. Yoked with him ,he makes our hearts soft.

Why worship the shadow of it ?