Mr GLee
Well Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2023
- Messages
- 4,768
- Reaction score
- 338
- Points
- 83
- Age
- 76
- Marital status
- married
- Politics
- republican
Yes the shadows became sight .
Where was the Sabbath Abolished?
- Thread starter Hobie
- Start date
eclipseEventSigns
Endeavoring to interpret prophecy correctly.
LOL.
jeremiah1five
BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2023
- Messages
- 2,254
- Reaction score
- 232
- Points
- 63
- Country
- USA
Do you read the Scriptures or are you using the "Force"?
jeremiah1five
BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2023
- Messages
- 2,254
- Reaction score
- 232
- Points
- 63
- Country
- USA
No, it doesn't. The Law is to Israel forever as the Word of God states and the instrument upon which God judges the world. You are infected with Constantine Gentile false beliefs. Come out from among her and be ye separate says the LORD.
If the Law is abolished, then I suppose Israel has no basis for living their lives, nor can God judge the Gentiles. But thanks be to God His Word is Eternal and His Covenants are Eternal as well go and do that for which it is ordained. Add to that I suppose I no longer have to not have other gods before me or take the name of the Lord in vain.
You fail to understand the eternal purpose of the Law of God in His universe. Study UP!
Mr GLee
Well Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2023
- Messages
- 4,768
- Reaction score
- 338
- Points
- 83
- Age
- 76
- Marital status
- married
- Politics
- republican
Do you know the difference between a ceremonial law and a moral law. Or a shad/
jeremiah1five
BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2023
- Messages
- 2,254
- Reaction score
- 232
- Points
- 63
- Country
- USA
Yes. But "shad/" throws me for a spin.
Josheb
Well Known Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2023
- Messages
- 4,775
- Reaction score
- 2,071
- Points
- 113
- Location
- VA, south of DC
- Faith
- Yes
- Marital status
- Married with adult children
- Politics
- Conservative
That is incorrect.
Let me first say the Law has been abolished as a means of obtaining righteousness and justification. Paul and all the other NT writers repeatedly quoted and referenced Tankah (the psalms and the prophets as well as the Law) and applied them to both Jewish and Gentile converts to Christ, BUT never as a means of righteousness or justification. The New Testament does say the Law was abolished.
Ephesians 2:14-16
For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the hostility, which is the Law composed of commandments expressed in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two one new person, in this way establishing peace; and that He might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the hostility.
Hebrews 7:11-19
Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. For it is attested of Him, "You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek." For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
BUT......!
Romans 3:19-31
Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one. Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.
Note Paul said "we" establish the Law. "We," not "they."
As a Jewish Pharisee, a teach of the Law, Paul would NEVER have instructed converts to Christ to ignore the Law when it came to eating meat offered to idols or honoring or not honoring one day over another. Yet that is exactly what he did teach. Paul went to great lengths to repudiate the belief Gentile converts had to be circumcised.
This notion the Law wasn't abrogated is another example among many of you emphasizing the Old over the New and not the other way around. It's also an example of you not reading whole scripture, reading what is written as written and believing it as written. The newer revelation explains the older revelation, not the other way around. The result is a Judaization of Christianity.
Scripture proves otherwise.
And what does the New Testament say about Exodus 31:13-18. You cannot cut out the parts of the Bible you like and ignore the rest.
Constantine is irrelevant. We live in the 21st century where Bibles are mass-produced on computerized printing presses so everyone can one of their own. We're not reliant on men with backwards collars - or Jewish men wearing robes of purples and scarlet.
Legalism kills.
The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
The Sabbath was given for man's rest from work.
It was a prefigure of man's eternal rest in Jesus Christ, from work to save himself and in Christ's work which saves to the uttermost.
eclipseEventSigns
Endeavoring to interpret prophecy correctly.
Still talking a lot of lot of nothing.That is incorrect.
Let me first say the Law has been abolished as a means of obtaining righteousness and justification. Paul and all the other NT writers repeatedly quoted and referenced Tankah (the psalms and the prophets as well as the Law) and applied them to both Jewish and Gentile converts to Christ, BUT never as a means of righteousness or justification. The New Testament does say the Law was abolished.
Ephesians 2:14-16
For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the hostility, which is the Law composed of commandments expressed in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two one new person, in this way establishing peace; and that He might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the hostility.
Hebrews 7:11-19
Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. For it is attested of Him, "You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek." For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
BUT......!
Romans 3:19-31
Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one. Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.
Note Paul said "we" establish the Law. "We," not "they."
As a Jewish Pharisee, a teach of the Law, Paul would NEVER have instructed converts to Christ to ignore the Law when it came to eating meat offered to idols or honoring or not honoring one day over another. Yet that is exactly what he did teach. Paul went to great lengths to repudiate the belief Gentile converts had to be circumcised.
This notion the Law wasn't abrogated is another example among many of you emphasizing the Old over the New and not the other way around. It's also an example of you not reading whole scripture, reading what is written as written and believing it as written. The newer revelation explains the older revelation, not the other way around. The result is a Judaization of Christianity.
Scripture proves otherwise.
And what does the New Testament say about Exodus 31:13-18. You cannot cut out the parts of the Bible you like and ignore the rest.
Constantine is irrelevant. We live in the 21st century where Bibles are mass-produced on computerized printing presses so everyone can one of their own. We're not reliant on men with backwards collars - or Jewish men wearing robes of purples and scarlet.
Legalism kills.
jeremiah1five
BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2023
- Messages
- 2,254
- Reaction score
- 232
- Points
- 63
- Country
- USA
As I said, which you say I am incorrect that Saul continued in the Law of Moses as a practicing Jew and rabbi, a Hebrew of Hebrews and a Pharisee of Pharisees, the Scripture supports my statement:That is incorrect.
Let me first say the Law has been abolished as a means of obtaining righteousness and justification. Paul and all the other NT writers repeatedly quoted and referenced Tankah (the psalms and the prophets as well as the Law) and applied them to both Jewish and Gentile converts to Christ, BUT never as a means of righteousness or justification. The New Testament does say the Law was abolished.
Ephesians 2:14-16
For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the hostility, which is the Law composed of commandments expressed in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two one new person, in this way establishing peace; and that He might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the hostility.
Hebrews 7:11-19
Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. For it is attested of Him, "You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek." For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
BUT......!
Romans 3:19-31
Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one. Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.
Note Paul said "we" establish the Law. "We," not "they."
As a Jewish Pharisee, a teach of the Law, Paul would NEVER have instructed converts to Christ to ignore the Law when it came to eating meat offered to idols or honoring or not honoring one day over another. Yet that is exactly what he did teach. Paul went to great lengths to repudiate the belief Gentile converts had to be circumcised.
This notion the Law wasn't abrogated is another example among many of you emphasizing the Old over the New and not the other way around. It's also an example of you not reading whole scripture, reading what is written as written and believing it as written. The newer revelation explains the older revelation, not the other way around. The result is a Judaization of Christianity.
Scripture proves otherwise.
And what does the New Testament say about Exodus 31:13-18. You cannot cut out the parts of the Bible you like and ignore the rest.
Constantine is irrelevant. We live in the 21st century where Bibles are mass-produced on computerized printing presses so everyone can one of their own. We're not reliant on men with backwards collars - or Jewish men wearing robes of purples and scarlet.
Legalism kills.
17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.
18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
First, if Saul stopped obeying the Law of Moses the elders of the Temple would not hang around with him but he's be judged and excommunicated from the Jews religion. But everyone gladly received him as a fellow, practicing Jew.
19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.
Acts 21:17–26.
As it says in verse 24:
but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
Saul continued to observe the rituals, the Feasts, the dietary, and all the precepts of the Law of Moses.
He followed the Law on purification to enter the Temple, and he walked orderly in the Law.
When Saul taught his fellow Jewish Christians, he quoted extensively from the Law of Moses and taught from out of the Law of Moses.
True Christianity is Completed Judaism.
You stand refuted.
eclipseEventSigns
Endeavoring to interpret prophecy correctly.
Any time modern pharisees like you start trying to put on the yoke of the law, we all just need to point out what Paul said:
[Col 2:16-19 LSB] 16 Therefore, no one is to judge you in food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- 17 things which are [only] a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, going into detail about [visions] he has seen, being puffed up for nothing by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
That is the end of the matter and should put you in your place.
jeremiah1five
BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2023
- Messages
- 2,254
- Reaction score
- 232
- Points
- 63
- Country
- USA
The Law of God is not a yoke. And if it is, it has yoked Covenant Israel to their God. You simply do not know the eternal purpose of the Law of Moses.
7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul:
The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart:
The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever:
The judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold:
Sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Ps 19:7–10.
You need to learn what the Law of God does and what it will do in the future when God sits on His throne at Jerusalem.
The worshiping of angels? Your interpretation has Saul saying to Jewish Christians don't let anyone judge you for worshiping angels? First clue: there is no passage of Scripture or other Hebrew writings of Jews worshiping angels. I think your understanding of the passage above is off.
And verse 17 Saul says, "a shadow of things to come." Jesus said on the cross, "It is finished." He came and departed. The Holy Spirit of Promise has come and there is nothing left "of things to come" except the return of Christ and the restoration of Israel to its place of prominence in the world with their God sitting on His throne and Gentiles cleansed from out of the Promised Land of Israel and the final battle between God and Gentiles (Gog and Magog) who happen to live in the land outside of Israel. Is that what is meant "of things to come?"
In the future God is going to demand in that day Gentiles every year to "go up" to Jerusalem to celebrate a Feast from the Law of Moses, the Feast of Tabernacles. And if they do not "go up" then God will withhold rain from falling on their lands and the punishment will result in an agriculture crash upon this people.
God is also going to use the Law of Moses to judge His people and the Gentiles, and it will be the Law of Moses which all people shall follow when Christ sits on His throne.
Even Saul obeyed the Law of Moses after he met with Yeshua Messiah and was of impeccable character.
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:24.
IF you are true, born-again Christian this should end the matter for you and put YOU in your place. After meeting His Messiah Saul continued to keep the Law of Moses.
Last edited:
Mr GLee
Well Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2023
- Messages
- 4,768
- Reaction score
- 338
- Points
- 83
- Age
- 76
- Marital status
- married
- Politics
- republican
Parables. . Just as they are designed a shadow. They as a vail signify the unseen eternal.
In that way without parables the signified tongue of God, Christ spoke not through Jesus the apostle prophet. Purposely hiding the spiritual or unseen gospel understanding . . in mixed the literal historical temporal dying.They must be mixed or the parables as a shadow remain something to wonder after and cause confusion??
Parable as prophecy teach us how to understand God not seen . faith to faith.
An example I think works to help us take away the shadow or veil is in Luke 9 and Mark 9
There one parable after another hiding the gospel understanding, continuing again with another again and again At one point the apostles had become so confused they took a electoral vote who amongst them is "the greatest" They must of thought Jesus went of his rocker and fell of the deep end . I would think Jesus the most misunderstood person in the whole world .Even his own family would of signed him in for treatment.
Jesus knew they did not receive knowledge just a shadow of it. Then in another parable he took a child to express the kind of faith he works in mankind. The last will be first. Again to show the understanding was hid completely the apostles ignoring the parable John trying to establish who they are that went out from the true believers.Again the apostles wondering walking by sight after the temporal things. John declared we saw (trusting the things seen) one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.. . as if we did walk by sight after the temporal things seen and not the unseen hidden things of the parables
Moving on the apostles still wondering (not believing) Thought that Jesus was playing tricks on them. . looking like he might go to the Jews in Jerusalem he went to the Gentiles. The faithless Apostles they demanded he bring down fire and consume them all. . in order to satisfy their pagan religious foundation ."Out of sight out of mind" as in who believes in a eternal God not seen revealed by his writen spiritual words as Law (not philopshical theory)
Then he rebuked them and revealed to them they knew not what manner of spirit they were of the temporal shadows.
The veil or shadow of a ceremonial law. . . the circumcision of the firstborn of many sons of God (Christian)It was rent from the top to the bottom. There was no jewish man as King of kings,Lord of lords. Satan fell he could no longer deceive the whole world that God is a Jewish nan as King of kIng and Lord of earthly lords
Note . . Amazed wondering is not believing God as a anchor of our new born again faith. Lying wonders the voice of the father of lies causes confusion in unbelf not faith that could please our Holy Father
Luke 9:43 And they were all amazed at the mighty power of God. But while they wondered every one at all things which Jesus did, he said unto his disciples, Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men. But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying. Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest.And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a child, and set him by him,
And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name (power)receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great. And John (not understanding the parable )answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? (No eternal vision beyond what the eyes see. But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
.
eclipseEventSigns
Endeavoring to interpret prophecy correctly.
The Scripture itself has rebuked you. Yet you continue on in your carnal attempts at pride and going against God Himself. Be gone, false talker.
Josheb
Well Known Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2023
- Messages
- 4,775
- Reaction score
- 2,071
- Points
- 113
- Location
- VA, south of DC
- Faith
- Yes
- Marital status
- Married with adult children
- Politics
- Conservative
The problem is one of adultery.
You are mixing in things that adulterate Christianity. You're leaving things out that are important and adding things that are non-existent and things that are not universal. It is all made worse because there is no evidence you are interested in 1) learning otherwise or 2) having a cogent and civil conversation. Why do I say that? I say it because my post was just misrepresented and that's rude. I say it because the op-relevant and very salient points in my post were ignored. That is irrational, invalid, and ineffective. "What did I ignore, Josh?" The fact Paul negated the Law as a means of attaining righteousness and justification.
That is very important.
"Why is it important, Josh?"
It's important because it is NOT Judaism, and that was the whole point of Paul's commentary!
The New Testament read with an Old-Testament mind it is easy to understand why the New Testament would be read as Jewish, but that is the problem to be solved. The Jewish mindset is the problem to be solved.
Saul did not need to go through the purification ritual. He acquiesced to appease the those who wanted to kill him, not to please God. When Jesus converted him, he changed his name from Saul to Paul, just as He had with Abram and others long before. Saul no longer existed. A different man, a man named Paul wrote the epistles bearing that name. The old was left beyond in favor of the new. Judaized Christianity holds on to the old, favoring it over the new. The older revelation is valued above the newer revelation, even though the older was veiled, hidden and contained mysteries - all of which are revealed in the new revelation.
The new revelation restores that which had always been attended. Correctly understood the new does not replace the old; it restores it. Jesus was constantly correcting the Jewish leaders and he did so because they and everything they taught was wrong. Every time Jesus says, "You have heard it said , but I say , he was not just correcting their wretched, misbegotten, ungodly, perverse, Jewish falsehood, he was restoring the original meaning of Tanakh. For example, the Law pertaining to "an eye for an eye" was NEVER about retribution. It was always about restitution and equality of justice. Unblessedly, by the time Jesus arrived in the flesh centuries of disobedience and fleshly intellectualizing had twisted and perverting God's word and the rabbis' teaching were held superior and authoritative. Nearly everything Jesus taught can be found in the Old Testament. Nearly. Nearly everything, not everything. And that "nearly" is very important. The newer revelation reveals things either veiled in the old or things not yet revealed. There'd be no reason for a new revelation if the old were sufficient. We'd all be Jews, not Christians and no one here would every disagree with you.
When you say Christianity is Judaism completed, I am somewhat inclined to agree but the Judaism that is completed is NOT the Judaism you so often post. The seventh day sabbath and the lunar Sabbaths, for example, were NEVER intended to be about a specific period of time in which action was restricted for the sake of physical rest. That is a gross perversion of the day of rest. We would never know or understand that if all we had was Exodus 20ff, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and Numbers. Those three and a third books are critically important but they are a very, very small portion of God's word. It is both unscriptural and irrational to define the entire Bible by just three of the books - especially since the entire thing was written about Jesus!!!
If three or four books of the Bible are going to define the entirety then make them the gospels, NOT the books of the Law.
I have told you many times two critically important facts of scripture and you never discuss them. When I say that I mean you never set an example for the lurkers by engaging me in polite, respectful, and cogent discussion of these matters. You never present a case defending your point against my point and you never present a case I or anyone else might find persuasive. You've been here since June and have to post and repost the same positions and the same arguments over and over and over again and again ad nauseam fruitlessly because all you do is post the same superficial arguments we've all read and heard hundreds of times - you never dive into the deeper aspects. After so many months of ad nauseam it looks like you're not really interested in anything but the ad nauseam.
Christianity being Judaism completed is not Jewish Judaism completed; it is Tanakh completed. There is a difference between Tanakh and Judaism. Tanakh is God's word. Judaism is a man-made religion that had to be corrected every single day of the Messiah's earthly existence and the witness of the gospels is very much about the Jews' Jewish/Judaic hell-bent refusal to listen to the truth so hard-heartedly they murdered the very individual they supposedly awaited. They are ALL going to burn in hell for it.....
.....unless they call upon the name of the one they unjustly murdered.
Judaism got a lot wrong. Judaism got the Sabbath wrong. Judaism got the priesthood wrong. Judaism got the Law wrong. Judaism got the identity of Israel wrong. Judaism got the monarchy wrong. Judaism got the throne wrong. Judaism got the temple wrong. Judaism got the Messiah wrong.
- Sabbath
- Sabbaths
- Priesthood
- Law
- Israel
- Monarchy
- Kingdom
- Throne
- Temple
- Messiah
ALL of that, and more, they got wrong. Why would anyone knowing Jesus want to remain a Jew? The Old Testament is not only a witness to Jesus, the resurrected Lord of All, it is also a record of how perverse Jewish humans could be, and how they serve as an example for all humanity. They were called to be an example to all the nations as a witness to God but were just the opposite according to the Messiah himself!
John 8:39-47
They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you are Abraham's children, do the deeds of Abraham. But as it is, you are seeking to kill me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. You are doing the deeds of your father." They said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God." Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on my own initiative, but He sent me. Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I speak the truth, you do not believe me. Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe me? He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."
They were not of God. Why would any of us want to be like them?
I gave you scripture. I did not give you doctrinal or denominational points of view. It irritates many when I do so because I can never be blamed for asserting sectarianism. It takes away one of the chief weapons so commonly employed by the dissent. Too bad. Two Christians should be able to discuss scripture without their sectarian baggage.
Josheb
Well Known Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2023
- Messages
- 4,775
- Reaction score
- 2,071
- Points
- 113
- Location
- VA, south of DC
- Faith
- Yes
- Marital status
- Married with adult children
- Politics
- Conservative
Only in your imagination and doctrinally-hardened heart.
Put it aside and discuss scripture with me. It is a fact Paul, the former Jewish Pharisee, told his readers - readers you say were Jewish converts to Christ - that it was unnecessary to honor one day above another. It is a fact he told his readers they could consider all significant or one significant as long as they did so unto God and as long as they did not criticize those who did things differently. It is also a fact Paul - not Saul - taught his readers their rest was to be found in Christ, not a day of the week. It is a fact of scripture the apostles did first go to the temple and then the synagogues to preach the way of the Messiah, but it is also a fact the Jews persecuted, prosecuted, and murdered Christians solely for their belief in the Jewish Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth. It is a fact God kicked the Church out of Jerusalem, using that persecution for His purpose to force obedience upon the apostle to take the gospel to a people who were not God's people. It is a fact of scripture God's people have always lived by faith.
It is in the Law.
So you get out of your tiresome, single-themed man-made doctrine and discuss these ops with WHOLE scripture and not just the selected parts of scripture you find useful for the man-made agenda.
I, for one, do not want to be associated with the word of God hating murderers of my Lord and Savior any more than I must due to sin.
If my offer is not taken up in this thread in the next post, then I will continue my half of this nine-month long dance while you continue yours. Do something different for once. Go back to Post #7 and discuss that post's content because that content is very relevant, and very important. Try to do it without creating the false dichotomy posted in Post 13. Calvary can annul the Law AND God can have the Law as His witness to the people of Israel forever. The two are not mutually exclusive conditions. That was a very dumb response. It's lame. It's facile, not just fallacious. Muster some energy and fortitude and engage the fact Calvary changed EVERYTHING, including the Law....
...At least in terms of the Law's ability to attain righteousness and justification in the Jewish mindset.
Engage the fact Post #28 contains scriptures clearly stating the Law was abolished, annulled, and/or abrogated even though both authors of those passages constantly applied Tanakh (which included the Law) to the New Testament converts of Christ. Engage the other New Testament scriptures I have posted in your other Sabbath ops and sto being lazy. This is a discussion board, not an argument board.
Discuss these things.
Otherwise.....
Nothing changes.
eclipseEventSigns
Endeavoring to interpret prophecy correctly.
LOL. LOL. LOL. Look who is talking. You are constantly arguing and picking fights. You are engaging in such hypocritical behaviour.
jeremiah1five
BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2023
- Messages
- 2,254
- Reaction score
- 232
- Points
- 63
- Country
- USA
It still astounds me when professed "Christians" claim Christ but don't accept His Word as written. They do everything possible to twist His Words, re-interpret His Words, and when that fails, they reject His Word outright.
Psalms 19:1 says, "The Law of the Lord is perfect converting the soul"
There is nothing else in Scripture that does that. Even Peter agrees with the purpose of the Law of Moses/God:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 1 Peter 1:23.
When Peter wrote this there was only the Hebrew Scriptures of LAW, Psalms, and Prophets. The NT wasn't bible yet.
So, if the Law of the Lord converts the soul and Gentiles have abolished the Law, then there is nothing to convert the soul.
Let me ask you, do you actually read and study the Scriptures alone of do you rely on commentaries and other works by men because it shows.
jeremiah1five
BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2023
- Messages
- 2,254
- Reaction score
- 232
- Points
- 63
- Country
- USA
This is addressed to Saul:
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:23–24.
Saul kept the Law of Moses. Saul was obedient to the Law of Moses especially after He met Yeshua Messiah.
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:23–24.
Saul kept the Law of Moses. Saul was obedient to the Law of Moses especially after He met Yeshua Messiah.
