Where was the Sabbath Abolished?

[Mr GLee]

With all due respect, none of that explains why Christ would've taught the 10 Commandments. His followers were the "first Christians." There's no debating that.

Christian = follower of Christ.

I would offer. of the ten commandments , nine represent moral law judgeble. the other one tithe sabbath is a cerimolaw; law as sign to the unbelieving world the purpose of the ceremonies.

The sabbath is a ceremonial law as shadow of the unseen . Moral laws do not have or need reasoning.

there is a difference between the two witnesses to the same law . One from the standpoint of creation to indicate the rest of God the other to indicate his rest working in his people.

Exodus 20:10-11 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it

Deuteronomy 5 14-15 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou. And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Two kinds of memories to represent one ceremonial; law as a shadow

 

[STAND]

Because it was still Law.

On Luke they didn't even know that He was risen or would rise. And they did not really understand the implications of His rising until they remembered things that He had said, and as to the eleven, not until He had explained all things in the forty days with them before His ascension. Not only that the Law had not yet become obsolete.

I never said Gentiles or Gentile believers ever observed it. You are conflating a bit.

They ended as Law. I have already addressed that.

I can see this discussion isn't going to track because you're dodging my questions.

I asked you at what specific point in time, recorded in Scripture, are you claiming the Law/Commandments ended. I also showed with Scripture where the Bible says that a portion of them ended.

Tell me, why do Christians obey 9 of the 10 Commandments? Where do they get that from? Why do they observe Commandments that so many claim were only for the Jews and are now done away with?

Who is the individual that they are obeying, who are they following by obeying them?

 

[STAND]

Ceremonial laws as a parable are shadows that point to substrance the 24/7 rest or called the sabbath .Hebrew 4
When the first century reformation came the shadows disappeared.

Hebrew 8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Those that did not mix the temporal dying seen with the unseen eternal thing of God in that parable . They did not rest No rest in shadows a fast

Hebrew 4:4 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Anytime we hear his word and do not hardened our heart we have entered resting with him. Yoked with him ,he makes our hearts soft.

Why worship the shadow of it ?

This is the conventional explanation, yes. But you're not showing any specific verses that teach that Christians are not to observe the Sabbath Commandment. That teaching comes only from man. It is found nowhere in the Bible.

If the Commandments were given to all mankind, as Dt. 29:11, 14-15 declares, then we need to ask when all mankind was commanded in Scripture to do away with them.

To date, nobody has shown that teaching from the Bible.

 

[STAND]

I would offer. of the ten commandments , nine represent moral law judgeble. the other one tithe sabbath is a cerimolaw; law as sign to the unbelieving world the purpose of the ceremonies.

The sabbath is a ceremonial law as shadow of the unseen . Moral laws do not have or need reasoning.

there is a difference between the two witnesses to the same law . One from the standpoint of creation to indicate the rest of God the other to indicate his rest working in his people.

Exodus 20:10-11 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it

Deuteronomy 5 14-15 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou. And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Two kinds of memories to represent one ceremonial; law as a shadow

None of the Ceremonial laws were carved into the stone tablets.

The Stone Decalogue consists of laws to govern how we revere God and how we revere our fellow man.

There are no indications of ordinance in the 4th Commandment to Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.

 

[Arial]

Let's talk about the passage in Hebrews that so many misinterpret. Tell me the verses that are included in the part you believe teach that the Sabbath is no longer necessary for Christians.

To begin with there is a distinction between the Sabbath laws given to the Israelites and the intent and meaning of Sabbath.
Hebrews 3 and 4
Sabbath means rest from labor and is a part of creation. God rested on the seventh day. And of course this does not mean he was tired but that He stopped what He was doing. His work of creation was complete. The principle is one day out of every seven. God did not name the days of the week---that came later.

Here is the fourth commandment given before the Mosaic Covenant Law in Deut 5 verses 12-15 Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you. Six days shall you labor and do all your wor, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant, or your ox or your donkey or any of your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates,that your male servant and our female servant may rest as well as you. You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

Before I begin relating this with the Hebrews chapters 3 nd 4, take note of a couple of things. There is no way of knowing that at that time, our Saturday was the seventh day. Or that God created the first day on what is now our Sunday or our Monday. It was only number of days, and every seventh day was to be kept holy. Second it is serving a specific purpose; to remember God's delivering them out of bondage in Egypt. Third, as commemorating a particular event, it was applied to those who were participants in the even.

It is important to keep these things in mind as we look at Hebrews because in chapter 3, when the author of the book begins to talk about the rest for God's people, he directly makes mention of Moses, the one who led them out of Egypt, and in verses 7-11 references the failure and the reason for the failure of some in the exodus to fail to enter His rest. So it is His rest being spoken of---back to Gen. The land to which they were being taken to, and that they did not enter, was the same land promised to Abraham. And in that promise ran two covenants. One for the land to belong to Abraham's natural descendents through obedience to the Law not yet given. The other the New covenant of salvation by grace through faith, not of works. And this deliverance, mediated and fulfilled by Christ is much superior to that of Moses, for everything about the Mosaic Covenant was temporary, and merely a shadow of the One who was to come. They pointed towards Christ as types and shadows.

In verses 12-19 the author begins a stern warning that continues through the majority of the book, about falling into disobedience as those did in the wilderness through unbelief, and did not enter His rest. A quick note. Hebrews is a letter and the author is dealing with specific believers who are dealing with specific issues. It is important to keep this in mind rather than separating it into isolated sections. They had been persecuted and were being persecuted, even tempted because of it to resort back to the old covenant laws, and many had become discouraged waiting for what was promised, and confused. The letter is written for encouragement to stand fast and is heavily reinforced through Christology and interpretation and revalaltory explanation of those things that were in the old covenant and how they pertained to Christ and came to fruition in Him.

In chapter 4:1-3 he reiterates that the promise of entering His rest still stands, therefore it is not a rest of Law, but rest from the works of the Sabbath Laws and the striving of work to obey all the Law. 3. We who have believed enter that rest, as He has said, "As I swore in my wrath, 'They shall not enter my rest," although His works were finished from the foundation of the world. 8-10 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from His.

Jesus, having fulfilled all the Mosaic Covenant Law, having died on the cross as our substitute, having risen to life, defeating the power of sin and death over His people, having ascended to Heaven, He sat down (rested from all His work)at the right hand of the Father. And through faith in Him, we are justified (declared righteous)before God. Jesus is our righteousness. Jesus is our Sabbath rest.

 

[Arial]

I asked you at what specific point in time, recorded in Scripture, are you claiming the Law/Commandments ended. I also showed with Scripture where the Bible says that a portion of them ended.

A specific point in time? Really? And I never said they ended but that the MOsaic Covenant Law became obsolete as it was no longer needed. Jesus had fulfilled it. I suppose that went into effect when He ascended to the Father and sat down at His right hand---rested from all His work of providing the way of salvation.

All the Law passed away as LAW. The old covenant had LAWS. A written legal document. The New Covenant has no LAWS. His law---righteousness---is written on our hearts. And we bear the fruit of the Vine in which we have been engrafted. We obey our Father as His children adopted into His household. Jesus is our Sabbath rest and there is no Sabbath LAW.

Tell me, why do Christians obey 9 of the 10 Commandments? Where do they get that from? Why do they observe Commandments that so many claim were only for the Jews and are now done away with?

I am guessing the great majority of Christians keep one in seven days holy to the Lord. But not as Law with ordinances required by LAW. What exactly are the Sabbath Laws given in the Mosaic Covenant Law that you keep? Be explicit here, just as the OC Sabbath laws are explicit. And then we can talk.

Who is the individual that they are obeying, who are they following by obeying them?

Careful there with the judgmental implications.

 

[STAND]

To begin with there is a distinction between the Sabbath laws given to the Israelites and the intent and meaning of Sabbath.

The Sabbath Law wasn't just given to the Israelites.

That's the first mistake of most who believe today that the Sabbath isn't for Christians.

"Ye stand this day ... before the LORD your God; ... your little ones, your wives and thy stranger (non-Jews) that is in thy camp, ..."
Dt. 29:11

"Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath; but with him that standeth here with us this day (the stranger - non-Jews) before the LORD our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day."
Dt. 29:14-15

We know for a fact that those not present were not referring to other Jews who "had stayed home sick" because the commandment is given, multiple times, to pass this Law onto all generations to come. So those people had been accounted for.

Moses was undeniably speaking of all mankind that were not present that day. And even if someone refuses to accept that fact, they cannot deny the stranger that was present that was most certainly non-Jews.

 

[STAND]

A specific point in time? Really? And I never said they ended but that the MOsaic Covenant Law became obsolete as it was no longer needed. Jesus had fulfilled it. I suppose that went into effect when He ascended to the Father and sat down at His right hand---rested from all His work of providing the way of salvation.

All the Law passed away as LAW. The old covenant had LAWS. A written legal document. The New Covenant has no LAWS. His law---righteousness---is written on our hearts. And we bear the fruit of the Vine in which we have been engrafted. We obey our Father as His children adopted into His household. Jesus is our Sabbath rest and there is no Sabbath LAW.

I am guessing the great majority of Christians keep one in seven days holy to the Lord. But not as Law with ordinances required by LAW. What exactly are the Sabbath Laws given in the Mosaic Covenant Law that you keep? Be explicit here, just as the OC Sabbath laws are explicit. And then we can talk.

You don't think the 10 Commandments written in stone are a legally binding document?

Really?

Careful there with the judgmental implications.

Careful there with the false accusations.

If you're going to accuse me of anything, you better make very clear exactly what I've done.

Judgmental implications?

Can you be a little more vague?

 

[Mr GLee]

None of the Ceremonial laws were carved into the stone tablets.

The Stone Decalogue consists of laws to govern how we revere God and how we revere our fellow man.

There are no indications of ordinance in the 4th Commandment to Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.

The 4th is a ceremonial law. God does not give two different reasons as a ordinance for moral laws. Exodus from Deuteronomy . A ceremonial sign to the world. Believers have prophecy

 

[Fred]

"Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath; but with him that standeth here with us this day (the stranger - non-Jews) before the LORD our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day."
Dt. 29:14-15

Future generations of the Israelites.

 

[Fred]

There are no indications of ordinance in the 4th Commandment to Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.

Deuteronomy 5:1 describes the Decalogue as "ordinances."

 

[Mr GLee]

This is the conventional explanation, yes. But you're not showing any specific verses that teach that Christians are not to observe the Sabbath Commandment. That teaching comes only from man. It is found nowhere in the Bible.

The ceremonial fast as shadows can be used as sign to the world , not to those who perform it as shadow of the substances found in Hebrew 4 the 24 /7 rest (sabbath)

It is not a moral law ,even though as a example one person waited till the day they were to commemorate the fast (proclaim the gospel) one picked up stick to make a fire to process the manna he was stoned agin as a example not a moral law .same kind of example when one fell asleep during the sermon.

Acts 20:9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.

 

[Arial]

You don't think the 10 Commandments written in stone are a legally binding document?

It wasn't even part of a legally binding document when given Sinai Covenant.We see the legally binding document of law in Ex and Lev and potions of Deut. And it is no longer written on stone but in our hearts. (2 Cor 3:3) What would be appreciated is if instead of just making statements like that, you actually addressed what was in my post. And answer the question I asked about how you keep the Mosaic Sabbath.

Careful there with the false accusations.

If you're going to accuse me of anything, you better make very clear exactly what I've done.

Judgmental implications?

Can you be a little more vague?

Why so hostile? Not a good way to begin.

 

[Arial]

The Sabbath Law wasn't just given to the Israelites.

That's the first mistake of most who believe today that the Sabbath isn't for Christians.

"Ye stand this day ... before the LORD your God; ... your little ones, your wives and thy stranger (non-Jews) that is in thy camp, ..."
Dt. 29:11

"Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath; but with him that standeth here with us this day (the stranger - non-Jews) before the LORD our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day."
Dt. 29:14-15

That is beside the point of my post. It was given to Israel and no other nation.

We know for a fact that those not present were not referring to other Jews who "had stayed home sick" because the commandment is given, multiple times, to pass this Law onto all generations to come. So those people had been accounted for.

Moses was undeniably speaking of all mankind that were not present that day. And even if someone refuses to accept that fact, they cannot deny the stranger that was present that was most certainly non-Jews.

Was it given to Canaan or Edom or any other nation other than Israel?

Since this is in response to my exegesis of Hebrews 3 and 4 concerning the Sabbath and whether or not Christians must keep it---the exegesis you asked that we do together---I assume you consider all the above your exegesis of Heb 3 and 4. (Point out to me where it is as I don't seem be able to find it.)

 

[STAND]

The 4th is a ceremonial law. God does not give two different reasons as a ordinance for moral laws. Exodus from Deuteronomy . A ceremonial sign to the world. Believers have prophecy

There are no ceremonial laws written in stone, silly.

That's a clear contradiction of the Decalogue.

 

[STAND]

That is beside the point of my post. It was given to Israel and no other nation.

Was it given to Canaan or Edom or any other nation other than Israel?

Since this is in response to my exegesis of Hebrews 3 and 4 concerning the Sabbath and whether or not Christians must keep it---the exegesis you asked that we do together---I assume you consider all the above your exegesis of Heb 3 and 4. (Point out to me where it is as I don't seem be able to find it.)

The Covenant was made with anyone who ever came to desire to follow the God of the Israelites.

The "strangers" were welcomed into the Faith just as all who were not present were.

If you obeyed the God of the Israelites' Commandments, you could become a follower of that God.

That is what that God, among the many gods, required for membership.

Rev. 3:10; 14:12, and all that I've repeated about Jesus' creating them, teaching them and obeying them, indicates that it is still what is required.

In John 14:21, Jesus says obedience to the Commandments is prereq. for receiving Him as the Holy Spirit.

The modern diminishing of the Commandments is a man-made doctrine that the Bible just doesn't teach. A number of members here have pointed out that Christians still obey 9 of the 10 Commandments so it's obvious that there is misalignment with what Scripture teaches and what man teaches and does today.

 

[Mr GLee]

There are no ceremonial laws written in stone, silly.

That's a clear contradiction of the Decalogue.

Thanks, Silly my new name ?. It's why I was put at the back of the class LOL

We I would I belive be careful how we hear his understanding of his power faith The word sabbath is clearly a non -time sensitive word.it I believe should of been translated in english as "rest" .less confusion coming from the father of confusion the spirit or error .

Just like the word apostle (sent messenger) The english translation of Greek angeleos .And not a new word "angel" and not the true meaning messenger .

Angel coined by the translators needed to generate a venerable government of men that follow the oral traditions of dying mankind rather than God's written tradition as it is writen . His interptation .

Angel .A fake word. A word that looks simular but has a different meaning altogether. It would seem those two fake words are false interpretations. They were both needed to give some sort of earthly advantage in things like patron saint a legion of disembodied workers familiar spirit gods. Worshiping the unseen adding a face . no such thing as unseen unheard of creation of spirit gods we worship one manner our Holy Father in heaven. Again not a legion of spirit gods as if they make up the one Holy Father not seen

Making the apostles into gods in the likeness of men beginning with Peter the serial denier who rebuked God and forbid the Son of man Jesus from doing the will of the Holy Father in heaven.. That kind of spirt was passed on from the Pharisees with Sadducees same spirit, inspired earthly

The first century reformation put end to law of the legion of fathers. . oral traditions of dying mankind . It would seem to have been picked up by Roman Catholic with Eastern Orthodox same spirit of error as Pharisees with Sadducees. Venerable puffed up ones reigning over the faith as a understanding of the non-venerable .

Change the meaning of words violates the loving commandment. . . . . not to change the meaning of even one word by adding another understanding .

It as a wile of the evil one spiritual plagiarism. It can change all the commandments by giving them over to the commandments of men oral traditions of dying mankind

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word(singular) which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it,(singular ) that ye may keep the commandments (plural) of the Lord your God which I command you.

In Revelation 22 simular do not add or subtract it speaks of the whole the perfect or complete .

Both loving warning working as one to protect the integrity of the one author and perfecter, Christ our Holy Father

Did you search the parables (10 commandments) using the temporal things seen to give the spiritual eternal understanding as searching silver or gold or just raked the leaves on surface. Looking to the historical temporal .

I think we must be careful how we hear. He has given us a what I would call a 20/20 prescription needed to rightly divide the parables mixing the things seen the historical with the unseen things of eternal God . The valuable recipe for rest. . as in yoked with him our daily burdens can be lighter if we do not harden our hearts we have entered that eternal rest . The ceremonial shadow disappears and one new to cover all the shadows. 1 Corinthian 11 a parable of the upcoming wedding supper in the new order. Again a gospel sign to the world. in a hope of drawing them into the born again believers source of faith as it writen Believers have prophecy to the end of time

2 Corinthians 4:18King James Version While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

They must be mixed or again no rest .The mystery of the parable remains the same

Why add reasoning to the rest (sabbath) from two different (Exodus and Deuteronomy) two time periods creation i and resduing his people as one statement?

If it is a moral law, why the reasoning?.

Who said God cannot include ceremonial laws a sign to the unbelieving world as shadow in the ten commandments that represent all of the law written in the book of law. . no oral tradition as theories of dying mankind?

 

[Arial]

The Covenant was made with anyone who ever came to desire to follow the God of the Israelites.

The "strangers" were welcomed into the Faith just as all who were not present were.

If you obeyed the God of the Israelites' Commandments, you could become a follower of that God.

That is what that God, among the many gods, required for membership.

Rev. 3:10; 14:12, and all that I've repeated about Jesus' creating them, teaching them and obeying them, indicates that it is still what is required.

In John 14:21, Jesus says obedience to the Commandments is prereq. for receiving Him as the Holy Spirit.

What is being presented by myself and others is that Christians do not have to observe the Saturday Sabbath according to the Sabbath laws of the Mosaic Covenant. In the Ten Commandments it says "observe the Sabbath day. Six days shall you labor and do all your work---". Sabbath does not mean Saturday---it means rest. It is not specifying a particular day of the week. The idea put forth that says the fourth commandment is fulfilled in Christ and therefore no longer is required to be kept in the same way as Israel was commanded to keep it, but that it reverts back to its true principle and meaning---is that according to Hebrews, Jesus is that Sabbath rest.

We are always obligated to be obedient to God's law. In stating this, if refers to the moral character of God. We are His image bearers. As such we are to live and relate to what He has given us, what He has made, and our fellow humans, according to His design. Everyone is under that obligation and command. That is not the same thing as Laws.

If you will notice with the Ten Commandments, the first four are how we are to relate to God, the next six cover our relating to each other---personal and civil. And if those pertaining to God are kept perfectly, the others will automatically be kept. And they are presenting principles rather that relate to all aspects and areas, rather than touching on every single detail. In the Mosaic Covenant Law, the details are given as Law. A penal code.

The first, the Ten, never go away, existed before they were ever given, and were required of us from our creation, simply because God made us in His image and likeness, and charged us with dominion over that creation---not apart from Him, but under Him. The second known as the Mosaic covenant Law was made with the nation Israel, was serving a temporary purpose, the purpose was completed in Christ, and is therefore no longer in force.

So far, even though I did as you asked----gave an exegesis of the scriptures that are used in part in Hebrews ----where Christians find Jesus being our Sabbath rest, and that you would do the same, you have not done so. You have only put forth the reasons you think we are still under Law. And even that is spurious and never actually addresses the issue.

The modern diminishing of the Commandments is a man-made doctrine that the Bible just doesn't teach. A number of members here have pointed out that Christians still obey 9 of the 10 Commandments so it's obvious that there is misalignment with what Scripture teaches and what man teaches and does today.

"The modern diminishing of the Commandments is a man-made doctrine that the Bible doesn't teach" is a straw man. The misalignment is with your view of what the fourth commandment means and is to be applied to, and how it is to be kept. You have not even given what you consider to be keeping it, even though I have asked you twice. Since the Bible clearly lays for Israel how they are to keep the Sabbath---how do you keep it? How closely do you follow the Bible in keeping it?

 

[Hobie]

There is an old covenant but I can't find an "old law" mentioned in the bible. Perhaps you are thinking of the covenant laws made with Israel concerning the ceremonies pointing to Christ and the civil laws governing everyday life for the children of Israel. Those laws came into being at the formation of Israel. However, God's eternal law predates the covenant laws and can be found before the Sinai Covenant occurred.

Keeping a sabbath is not the issue, making it salvific is. No one is to judge another about sabbath days whether one keeps such a period or whether or keeps no sabbath at all. To pearl clutch over a person keeping the sabbath is as much a focus on it as those that tie it to the salvation of others.

This does not refer to the eternal law of God which is to love God with all your heart and your neighbor a yourself. This will never change. The Ten Commandments were a simplified version of this eternal law with the first 4 giving instruction on loving God and the last 6 on loving your neighbor.

The Ten Commandments were not part of the mosaic law. They preexisted the mosaic law. However, they were simplified intructions of the eternal law of God.

Which is part of the character of who God is, thus the Law of Love...