What is the doctrine of Eternal Security?

[Mercy_Shown]

No, that is a false analogy. The reason why my analogy is correct is because I couched both the claims made AND the knowledge and efficacy of the "mechanic" in the mechanic. You couched it in the vehicle. Failed analogy. Christians and non-Christians do not work on others; they work on themselves and a person who does not know the basics (like nuts, bolts, wrenches, torque, etc.) cannot work on anything AND that is self-evident to all.

Your analogy had more holes than a sieve. And I told you exactly why. You can cling to it if you like but it’s apples and oranges no matter what way you look at it.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

What's a God?
What's a Christ?
What's a sin?
What's a salvation?


That person has no security, eternal or otherwise. You screwed up. Thrice.

You’ve never taken the time to know what I believe. Because I disagreed with a single theological point you have inserted a whole belief system that you believe I have without ever examining or asking a question. Now that is a major strawman. In fact it could end up being a whole straw army.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

.

Never happened.

Because you say so? I think not. A man’s Waze is always right in his own eyes.

 

[Mr GLee]

Because you say so? I think not. A man’s Waze is always right in his own eyes.

It's easy to see that to a Catholic eternal security is limbo or purgatory a oral law of dying mankind teaching the non-venerable only a queen mother named afTer our sister in the Lord mary received the fullness of Grace the full price of salvation.

The rest of mankind a unknown remnant of saving grace. And after one takes their last breath of oxygen the security begins. . suffer wonder, suffer wonder, as it would seem after the king of lying sign to wonder after the father of lies . God is still sending a strong delusion to the who refuse to get under all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Good example using Nicodemus one that did seek after and wonder after a lying sign having no desires to serve the invisible head Christ, Eternal God. The same as those who made Jesus into a circus seal, work a miracle do a trick then when we see with our own eyes then and only then will we believe. (faithless no faith not litle none). Jesus called that the evil generation they seek after signs to wonder after.Believers have prophecy to the end of time .

He them speaks of the greatest miracle born again God giving a new spirit that will never die and then given words from the Father he lovingly commands him to "marvel not" or wonder not .Wondering is not believing as a anchor to one soul .

It would appear the loving commandment worked in Nicodemus later he is walking with Christ .his born again conversion.

Just like with faithless unbelieving Thomas the loving commandment of the Father be not faithless rather believe with all your heart soul and mind .Then Thomas empowered by the Father confesses with his mouth the the Holy Father is Lord .His born again conversion

John 3;1-7 King James Version3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

John 20:27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

The living abiding word is the spirit of new life .

When Jesus was sought after by those who serve signs to wonder after. He said no signs would be given, the last the sign of Jonah it was fulfilled with the Son of man, Jesus . Believers have prophecy til the end of time

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

I would offer be careful how we hear or say we do .

 

[donadams]

Do me a favor and answer the question.

What does "No participation in God’s grace?" even mean?

"And if by grace, it is no longer from works; otherwise grace no longer would be grace."
That’s your doctrine not the Christian faith,
Paul is not condemning works, but works alone apart from Christ!

Grace must proceed every salutary and meritorious act, we must be in Christ by faith and baptism live by His grace united to our deeds, prayer, penance, fasting, alms, suffering, practice of the virtues of Jesus Christ!

 

[donadams]

We are not responsible for sin that we honestly forgot

 

[donadams]

Does He have flesh or not? You are not going to find a way out of this.

Why do you claim the name of Christ if you refuse to believe Him who is truth itself?

 

[donadams]

And yet Hebrews tells us to come boldly before HIS throne of grace. Not Mary's throne of grace.

It is His grace yes

He is the mediator

But it don’t say his throne!

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

The throne of grace and Mary is full of grace the divine treasury

 

[CrowCross]

More precisely it says, if you believe in Him. Many will come to Christ on that day believing they have eternal life and He will say to them, "Depart from me for I do not know you."

If Christ never knew you...you obviously didn't have saving belief.

So the real question is what comprises believing in him and what happens if you stop believing in Him.

Believing in Jesus is more than believing He was a real historical person...or believing He was just a great prophet....believing in Him is to put your trust into His saving works and not your own as the means for salvation.

If you truly believe in Christ Jesus and are truly saved....nothing can cause the loss of your salvation. Not even becoming a disbeliever as NOTHING can snatch you from His hand.

 

[CrowCross]

Grace must proceed all our salutary actions, we must first be in Christ in his covenant by faith and baptism, it is only his grace that makes our actions meritorious. Jn 1:16-17

You seem to be presenting baptism as a requirement for salvation. Baptism is an action Christians do after salvation which symbolized their death, burial and resurrection with Christ Jesus.

 

[CrowCross]

The life of grace in our souls.

Only the serious sin causes separation from God and His grace.

Until we repent and confess.
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Do you have a biblical example?

 

[CrowCross]

Nonsense! The circular reasoning I described is self evident Within the doctrine. I’ve heard it 1000 times. If you quote Hebrews 6:4-6 To anyone who holds that doctor and they will simply tell you well those people were never saved in the first place. Of course, this is something they cannot know. So if you ask him how they know that’s when the circle starts.

Hebrews 6 isn't about losing salvation.

 

[CrowCross]

The doctrine of Salvation is by faith alone, therefore the first moment one believes that person is saved, but this verse say’s salvation is nearer than when we first believed
Thanks

Our sanctification isn't complete. We haven't been glorified yet...resurrected yet.
Salvation can be seen as one who will obtain those things I've just listed....and fulfilled when we actually obtain those things. Every day we are nearer to the complete fulfillment.

 

[CrowCross]

No it does not say that, you are reading into it, Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

That's what I just posted.

Believes is present tense, you must believe and continue in a state of perpetual belief until death, abiding in Christ and in his grace and righteousness apart from sin, Matt 6:33

Good luck with you doing that. I most certainly don't live in the fear that you live in. I know I'm saved.

Everlasting life is God’s life of grace in us!

And grace is a gift....so why do you keep trying to earn the gift? You can't earn a gift.

Thanks

 

[Arial]

It is His grace yes

He is the mediator

But it don’t say his throne!

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Some translations do say God---but never a one says Mary's throne of grace. Who sits on the throne mediating? Mary? And there is only one mediator between God and man and that is the High Priest Jesus. Where do you get the idea that we can not come to Christ when we hear His voice (John 10) but that we have to have a mediator between Jesus and man, and then Jesus will mediate for us with God? And where is the Catholic priest in this picture usurping what you say belongs to Mary.

The throne of grace and Mary is full of grace the divine treasury

You add to the Bible "the divine treasury." They are not there and they are nowhere else in the Bible.

 

[donadams]

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

Jn 15:1-5 abide in Christ

John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

1 Thessalonians 3:5
For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.

1 Timothy 2:15
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

 

[donadams]

You seem to be presenting baptism as a requirement for salvation. Baptism is an action Christians do after salvation which symbolized their death, burial and resurrection with Christ Jesus.

Mk 16:16 he who believes and is a baptized shall be saved!

 

[Arial]

Why do you claim the name of Christ if you refuse to believe Him who is truth itself?

That deflection won't get you out of it either. But FYI it is the RCC I refuse to believe. I do believe Christ. The RCC does not appear to do so as He claims sufficiency to save all by Himself, and the RCC says He needs their men and their rituals and their traditions in order for Him to save anyone.

 

[donadams]

Do you have a biblical example?

1. 1 John 5:16
   If any man see his brother sin a sinwhich is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sinunto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
2. 1 John 5:17
   All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

 

[donadams]

Do you have a biblical example?

Where does it say it must be in scripture?

Where does it say “all truths revealed by God are in scripture”?

Apostolic church teaches
Light of the world: Matt 5:14
Pillar of truth: 1 Tim 3:15
Lead apostolic church into all truth: Jn 16:12 then they
Teach all men: Matt 28:18
Hear the apostolic church: Matt 18:17