What is the doctrine of Eternal Security?

[donadams]

Our sanctification isn't complete. We haven't been glorified yet...resurrected yet.
Salvation can be seen as one who will obtain those things I've just listed....and fulfilled when we actually obtain those things. Every day we are nearer to the complete fulfillment.

Then you agree your not saved

 

[donadams]

That's what I just posted.

Good luck with you doing that. I most certainly don't live in the fear that you live in. I know I'm saved.

And grace is a gift....so why do you keep trying to earn the gift? You can't earn a gift.

Then you pervert the gospel and scripture

 

[Mercy_Shown]

Hebrews 6 isn't about losing salvation.

It would do violence to the scriptures for me to believe that. Repentance is part and parcel of salvation. No one is redeemed who has not repented. These individuals have made repentance impossible for themselves.

The circle is unavoidable at this point. Either you have unrepentant people who will be saved or you will have to claim they were never saved in the first place. The proof of that is that they fell away. And with that the circle is complete.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

If Christ never knew you...you obviously didn't have saving belief.

The point is, like a good Calvinist, they were sure that they did.

Believing in Jesus is more than believing He was a real historical person...or believing He was just a great prophet....believing in Him is to put your trust into His saving works and not your own as the means for salvation.

Yes, but there are tangible results of being saved. There are good works that come from a saved person. When the prison doors are opened one doesn't stay in his cell. Even John says that we can know we are saved if "we love the brethren." Salvation brings forth a different fruit than the flesh.

If you truly believe in Christ Jesus and are truly saved....nothing can cause the loss of your salvation. Not even becoming a disbeliever as NOTHING can snatch you from His hand.

When you disbelieve, you are leaving Christ's hand, you are not being snatched. Judas left Christ, he was not snatched away. If you can be saved as a disbeliever then all will be saved.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

It's easy to see that to a Catholic eternal security is limbo or purgatory a oral law of dying mankind teaching the non-venerable only a queen mother named afTer our sister in the Lord mary received the fullness of Grace the full price of salvation.

The rest of mankind a unknown remnant of saving grace. And after one takes their last breath of oxygen the security begins. . suffer wonder, suffer wonder, as it would seem after the king of lying sign to wonder after the father of lies . God is still sending a strong delusion to the who refuse to get under all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Good example using Nicodemus one that did seek after and wonder after a lying sign having no desires to serve the invisible head Christ, Eternal God. The same as those who made Jesus into a circus seal, work a miracle do a trick then when we see with our own eyes then and only then will we believe. (faithless no faith not litle none). Jesus called that the evil generation they seek after signs to wonder after.Believers have prophecy to the end of time .

He them speaks of the greatest miracle born again God giving a new spirit that will never die and then given words from the Father he lovingly commands him to "marvel not" or wonder not .Wondering is not believing as a anchor to one soul .

It would appear the loving commandment worked in Nicodemus later he is walking with Christ .his born again conversion.

Just like with faithless unbelieving Thomas the loving commandment of the Father be not faithless rather believe with all your heart soul and mind .Then Thomas empowered by the Father confesses with his mouth the the Holy Father is Lord .His born again conversion

John 3;1-7 King James Version3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

John 20:27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

The living abiding word is the spirit of new life .

When Jesus was sought after by those who serve signs to wonder after. He said no signs would be given, the last the sign of Jonah it was fulfilled with the Son of man, Jesus . Believers have prophecy til the end of time

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

I would offer be careful how we hear or say we do .

I just can't understand much of your post, so I really can't respond. Perhaps writing it out in your native tongue and having AI translate it into English might work better.

 

[donadams]

Some translations do say God---but never a one says Mary's throne of grace. Who sits on the throne mediating? Mary? And there is only one mediator between God and man and that is the High Priest Jesus. Where do you get the idea that we can not come to Christ when we hear His voice (John 10) but that we have to have a mediator between Jesus and man, and then Jesus will mediate for us with God? And where is the Catholic priest in this picture usurping what you say belongs to Mary.

You add to the Bible "the divine treasury." They are not there and they are nowhere else in the Bible.

Where does it say it must be in scripture?

Where does it say “all truths revealed by God are in scripture”?

Apostolic church teaches
Light of the world: Matt 5:14
Pillar of truth: 1 Tim 3:15
Lead apostolic church into all truth: Jn 16:12 then they
Teach all men: Matt 28:18
Hear the apostolic church: Matt 18:17

 

[donadams]

That deflection won't get you out of it either. But FYI it is the RCC I refuse to believe. I do believe Christ. The RCC does not appear to do so as He claims sufficiency to save all by Himself, and the RCC says He needs their men and their rituals and their traditions in order for Him to save anyone.

Then you believe you must eat his body and drink his blood?

Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
Jn 17:22 / rom 2:10 / 1 pet 1:7 Christ shares His glory with His saints!
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
Must hear church Matt 18:18
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

 

[Mr GLee]

The throne of grace and Mary is full of grace the divine treasury

Why does the rest of dying mankind receive a unknown remnant of grace then begins their eternal security in limbo or purgatory suffer ,wonder ,wonder ,wonder ,wonder ,wonder ,wonder ,wonder ,wonder ,wonder ,wonder ,wonder ,wonder ,wonder ,wonder ,wonder ,wonder .

According to 1 Peter1 those born again of the incorruptible seed the living word they receive the omerga from the alpha a different kind of eternal security no wonder, wonder, wonder. suffer.

1 Peter18 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

 

[Mr GLee]

Where does it say “all truths revealed by God are in scripture”?

Where does it say all truth revealed by God. in the scripture it is written some revealed truth by dying hands of mankind .I heard it through the legion of father grape vine ?

Define the word "dead" as in die according to the scripture.

Was it like what Peter the liar offered . . you shall not really die.

John 21:23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

Why did Peter lie?

Does the oral traditions of the dying fathers provide some sort of challenge using mortal and venial needed to shirt the commandment

 

[CrowCross]

Mk 16:16 he who believes and is a baptized shall be saved!

What does the rest of the verse say????

 

[CrowCross]

1. 1 John 5:16
   If any man see his brother sin a sinwhich is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sinunto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
2. 1 John 5:17
   All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

As humans we are already dead in our sins and trespasses. You need to address that.

By the use of the word "brother" it indicates a fellow believer. If you see a fellow believer fall into drug use..that sin can physically kill them. It can be said to be a sin unto death. On the other hand we sin everyday...commit acts of unrighteousness that don't kill us.

 

[CrowCross]

Where does it say it must be in scripture?

Where does it say “all truths revealed by God are in scripture”?

Apostolic church teaches
Light of the world: Matt 5:14
Pillar of truth: 1 Tim 3:15
Lead apostolic church into all truth: Jn 16:12 then they
Teach all men: Matt 28:18
Hear the apostolic church: Matt 18:17

How do I know our "truth" is the truth? I compare it to scripture.

If your "truth" isn't in scripture...can I trust your truth?

 

[CrowCross]

Then you agree your not saved

I never said that. Because we are saved we will be fully sanctified.

 

[CrowCross]

Then you pervert the gospel and scripture

How is believing Jesus died for my sins and I don't have to "work them off" is perverting the gospel?

Is your motto....Jesus equals salvation or Jesus plus your works equal salvation?

Answer me this...how much "works" do we need to do?

 

[CrowCross]

It would do violence to the scriptures for me to believe that. Repentance is part and parcel of salvation. No one is redeemed who has not repented. These individuals have made repentance impossible for themselves.

The circle is unavoidable at this point. Either you have unrepentant people who will be saved or you will have to claim they were never saved in the first place. The proof of that is that they fell away. And with that the circle is complete.

What you need to do is read around Heb. 6....How does Hebrews 6 start?
Why does Hebrews 6 start with "Therefore"....How do the preceding chapters apply to Heb. 6?

The verse in question is about the blessing...the verse should be looked at in conjunction with the Jews who didn't enter into the promised land. How they missed the blessing.

 

[CrowCross]

When you disbelieve, you are leaving Christ's hand, you are not being snatched. Judas left Christ, he was not snatched away. If you can be saved as a disbeliever then all will be saved.

Then that what caused your disbelief snatched you from Jesus' and the Fathers hand....which we know the bible says can't happen.

Judas left Christ, he was not snatched away.

Was Judas the son of perdition ever really with Christ?

 

[makesends]

Grace requires works to be fruitful!

Mark 4:8
3 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:

4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.

5 And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:

6 But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.

7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.

8 And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.

All had faith are all saved?
Did all bring forth fruit?

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace issufficient for thee: for my strength ismade perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Protestant doctrine perverts the Gospel, scripture, and the eternal words of Christ!

“Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
Matt 26:41

Why bother? Who cares!

I’m saved and don’t have to do anything!

And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. Lk 9:23

Why bother? Who cares!

I’m saved and don’t have to do anything!

“For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;”
Phil 1:29

Why bother? Who cares!

I’m saved and don’t have to do anything!

Thks

Where in the world do you get the notion that the saved don't have to do anything? That isn't what I've been saying. In fact, I insist, that if one doesn't do, he is not saved.

Listen carefully: Nobody becomes born again by their own doing. THAT is the work of God alone. THAT is grace.
Read Romans 8 and Ephesians 2 and John 1, just for starters...

 

[makesends]

Then you agree your not saved

"Already, but not yet". Saved from sin, but still under construction; not yet departed this temporal existence, and not yet the completed member of Christ's body —until we see Him as He is— that we will be.

 

[Josheb]

Eternal security of the living word is simply made to no effect to those who say they only received a unknown remnant of saving Grace and not the fullness the whole cost of salvation. and they in Limbo must suffer and wonder, suffer and wonder with no end in sight...

Who, specifically, would that be, and how is that relevant to the op?

2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

The question at hand is, "What is the doctrine of eternal security?" (and, by implication, is it scriptural) I say, "The doctrine of eternal security ES is a fairly specific and limited statement in the arena of soteriology regarding the simple promise that if God has saved you, then He will finish the salvific work He began in the person He is saving. The doctrine of ES itself says nothing about humanity, sin, or anything else other than what was just stated. Calvinist soteriology is monergistic, meaning it is first and foremost about God and God as the causal agent in salvation from sin, death, and wrath. Therefore, any definition of ES that is couched in the sinner, the sinner's agency, or anything other than God, has departed from the doctrine. There are logically necessary implications of the doctrine, but those are beyond the specific of the doctrine itself. Yes, Christians (Christian humans) developed this doctrine, but it is firmly couched in the plain reading of scripture.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

If building on Christ as the foundation (Heb. 11:10) everything added on that foundation might be lost (although we would hope to have born fruit consistent with that foundation) but the person will still be saved. Charred, covered in soot, and empty handed, but still saved. The firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His....." (2 Tim. 2:19).

 

[Josheb]

.

Come on. Responding with “strawman” is an unsupported argument and you know that.

Nonsense! The circular reasoning I described is self evident Within the doctrine. I’ve heard it 1000 times. If you quote Hebrews 6:4-6 To anyone who holds that doctor and they will simply tell you well those people were never saved in the first place. Of course, this is something they cannot know. So if you ask him how they know that’s when the circle starts.

Your analogy had more holes than a sieve. And I told you exactly why. You can cling to it if you like but it’s apples and oranges no matter what way you look at it.

You’ve never taken the time to know what I believe. Because I disagreed with a single theological point you have inserted a whole belief system that you believe I have without ever examining or asking a question. Now that is a major strawman. In fact it could end up being a whole straw army.

Because you say so? I think not. A man’s Waze is always right in his own eyes.

What I know is you are not dealing with the facts in evidence and every one of your posts to me have nothing to do with answering the op's inquiry. It looks like you're here solely to troll.

....you know that.

You can cling to it if you like.....

You’ve never taken the time to know what I believe.

Because you say so?

Ad hominem noted and added to the already existing fallacies employed so far.


Got anything op-relevant to post?