What is the doctrine of Eternal Security?

[CrowCross]

Grace requires works to be fruitful!

I can agree with that.....But, fruitful works don't produce grace. Grace is a gift and you can't earn a gift...or else it wouldn't be a gift.

 

[Fred]

Why would be responsible for something you have no control over?

Thus, they would be unconfessed and unrepented sins.

 

[donadams]

How many times can you lose your salvation and then repent and get it back? Do you have a biblical example of a person doing this?

We are not saved (real salvation) until the end of our life! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13 and many more verses

We are in the process of salvation,

Redemption :
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Jn 15:4 abide in Christ Matt 3:16 believes (present tense) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Glorification:

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

We have eternal life by grace and yes we can lose it, examples Judas and gal 5:4 many that refer to sin causing separation from God. 1 cor 6:10

 

[donadams]

There are venial sins and mortal sins!.....where does the bible teach this?

Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ!

1. 1 John 5:16
   If any man see his brother sin a sinwhich is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sinunto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
   
2. 1 John 5:17
   All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

 

[donadams]

There are venial sins and mortal sins!.....where does the bible teach this?

Where does it say it must be in scripture?

Where does it say “all truths revealed by God are in scripture”?

Apostolic church teaches
Light of the world: Matt 5:14
Pillar of truth: 1 Tim 3:15
Lead apostolic church into all truth: Jn 16:12 then they
Teach all men: Matt 28:18
Hear the apostolic church: Matt 18:17

Authority of the apostolic church:

 

[Josheb]

What is the doctrine of Eternal Security?

Eternal security is the promise that if God has saved you, then He will finish the salvific work He began in the person He is saving.

What all is included?

Nothing more that eternal security is included in the doctrine of eternal security and it is a commonly occurring mistake to make the doctrine of eternal security include more than it includes.

How does one in your understanding obtain it?

That depends on how "obtain" is defined. If the word is defined to mean get, procure, or secure by one's own effort than one does not obtain eternal security. If "obtain" is defined as receive, then eternal security is received as a gift from God, and God alone. Human effort cannot obtain eternal security apart from God's work. It is God who is at work in the one He is saving, both to will and to work for His good pleasure (Php. 2:13). Apart from Christ we can do nothing (Jn. 15:5).

Thanks

You're welcome.

 

[Josheb]

Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ!

Attacking posters with insinuations of ignorance is a lame argument..... and ignorant. Can you stick to the subject of your own op, or not?

 

[donadams]

I'm not sure I see how the verse complements what you wrote. Can you explain?

“if” you believe faith alone then you believe your are saved the first moment you believe, this verses opposes faith alone.

Thks

 

[CrowCross]

Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ!

1. 1 John 5:16
   If any man see his brother sin a sinwhich is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sinunto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
2. 1 John 5:17
   All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Death of what?

I could lie to someone and get a way with it...Yet, I could lie to a person and they could kill me for telling the lie. Both are lies and both are sins...but both don't put me in an early grave.

 

[CrowCross]

“if” you believe faith alone then you believe your are saved the first moment you believe, this verses opposes faith alone.

Thks

Really??? How does the verse oppose faith alone?

 

[CrowCross]

We are not saved (real salvation) until the end of our life! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13 and many more verses

We are in the process of salvation,

Redemption :
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Jn 15:4 abide in Christ Matt 3:16 believes (present tense) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Glorification:

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

We have eternal life by grace and yes we can lose it, examples Judas and gal 5:4 many that refer to sin causing separation from God. 1 cor 6:10

You left out John 3:16....Why???? It says if you believe you have eternal life...will not perish. Period.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

Don, Eternal Security is also known as 'Once Saved Always Saved' in some circles.
It has similarities to the Reformed Perseverance of the Saints but I don't think it's exactly the same.
It's most likely a derivative of Calvin.
Dr Charles Stanley (First Baptist Atlanta) wrote a book titled Eternal Security - Can You Be Sure that covers the material rather well (imho).
I used to have this book, but I loaned it and it never came back.. :O

You lost your Eternal Security? Oh No!

 

[Mercy_Shown]

Eternal Security:

Justification?
Perpetual perseverance in a state of justification?
Eternal life?
Eternal salvation?

Why do you think you are not required to obey the ten commandments, the commands of Jesus Jn 28:20 acts 1:2 or any of the requirements of scripture?

Quote:

Simply “accept Christ as your personal lord and savior” there is nothing else you need to do???

Nothing you can do to lose eternal security???

Serious sin does not separate us from God???


Verses that oppose the doctrine of eternal security:

Watch and pray not to enter into temptation.

Matthew 26:41
Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

Deny thyself

Suffering

Mortification

Penance


Matt 6:33 and his righteous



(Scripture opposing the doctrine of eternal security)

Jn 15:4-5 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Matt 24:13 he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

Luke 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

The big “IF”

Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

1 Thessalonians 3:5
For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.

1 Timothy 2:15
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Peter 2:21 “It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

Jude 1:4 Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Heb 1:14 shall be heirs of salvation

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: (Must remain obedient)

Acts 1: 18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

What you are missing here is the tight circular reasoning embedded in the holders of this doctrine and that is: If you fall away it means that you were never saved and the proof that you were never saved is that you have fallen away.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

You left out John 3:16....Why???? It says if you believe you have eternal life...will not perish. Period.

More precisely it says, if you believe in Him. Many will come to Christ on that day believing they have eternal life and He will say to them, "Depart from me for I do not know you."

So the real question is what comprises believing in him and what happens if you stop believing in Him.

 

[donadams]

I can agree with that.....But, fruitful works don't produce grace. Grace is a gift and you can't earn a gift...or else it wouldn't be a gift.

Grace must proceed all our salutary actions, we must first be in Christ in his covenant by faith and baptism, it is only his grace that makes our actions meritorious. Jn 1:16-17

 

[donadams]

Thus, they would be unconfessed and unrepented sins.

They are covered in His grace if we truly forget, but that’s why frequent confession is the wisdom of the church, and serious sin must be confessed asap

 

[Arial]

The throne of Grace is the throne of Mary the queen of heaven!
Lk 1:28 “full of grace”!

The grace Mary was full of was grace given by God, not His throne.

 

[Arial]

No it is forbidden, we are not eating human flesh and blood but Jesus Christ! The resurrected Lord!

Which you say the bread becomes and the wine becomes. It can't be both His flesh and not His flesh. You are almost about to see the wisdom of Calvin. Be careful or you will be in trouuuuble.

 

[makesends]

Grace requires works to be fruitful!

Mark 4:8
3 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:

4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.

5 And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:

6 But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.

7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.

8 And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.

All had faith are all saved?
Did all bring forth fruit?

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace issufficient for thee: for my strength ismade perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Protestant doctrine perverts the Gospel, scripture, and the eternal words of Christ!

“Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
Matt 26:41

Why bother? Who cares!

I’m saved and don’t have to do anything!

And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. Lk 9:23

Why bother? Who cares!

I’m saved and don’t have to do anything!

“For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;”
Phil 1:29

Why bother? Who cares!

I’m saved and don’t have to do anything!

Thks

Do me a favor and answer the question.

 

[Josheb]

What you are missing here is the tight circular reasoning embedded in the holders of this doctrine and that is: If you fall away it means that you were never saved and the proof that you were never saved is that you have fallen away.

Straw man.

If my neighbor claims he is a certified mechanic and can, therefore, can fix my car but it turns out he does not know what a wrench is, what torque is, what a not or threads are then EVERYONE has reason to believe all his claims are false. There's nothing circular about it. He was never a mechanic in the first place and the proof is his own conduct.

Matthew 7:21-23
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons, and in your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness."

NEVER! They NEVER knew him. It's not an invented doctrine. It is straight out of Jesus' own mouth. Many claim to know Jesus and do things demonstrating that knowledge, but they NEVER knew him. They may have had the appearance of salvation, but it NEVER actually existed.