What if God, willing to. . . .

[Alive]

I am not sure that what you suggest is what Calvin says here.
He is not always easy to follow.

I read this again more carefully and retract my comment.

 

[David1701]

I am not sure that what you suggest is what Calvin says here.
He is not always easy to follow.

Here's the quote you gave.

"Not willing that any should perish. So wonderful is his love towards mankind, that he would have them all to be saved, and is of his own self prepared to bestow salvation on the lost. But the order is to be noticed, that God is ready to receive all to repentance, so that none may perish; for in these words the way and manner of obtaining salvation is pointed out. Every one of us, therefore, who is desirous of salvation, must learn to enter in by this way.

But it may be asked, If God wishes none to perish, why is it that so many do perish? To this my answer is, that no mention is here made of the hidden purpose of God, according to which the reprobate are doomed to their own ruin, but only of his will as made known to us in the gospel. For God there stretches forth his hand without a difference to all, but lays hold only of those, to lead them to himself, whom he has chosen before the foundation of the world."

It's clear that Calvin thought that God wished none of mankind to perish, rather than only none of the elect, at least according to God's revealed will in the gospel. I disagree with his interpretation.

 

[David1701]

I might make an offer to someone knowing they will decline. This does not make my offer dishonest.

Yes, you might; but that was not my question.

P.S. what I was asking about was not whether or not an offer of the gospel to all without exception was honest; but, rather, whether or not it is an offer at all. I see it as a promise to those who believe.

 

[Ritajanice]

Of course the Holy Spirit indwells sinners, otherwise they would never believe.

We believe because the Spirit brought us to believe in Jesus, he also gifted us the faith to believe in Jesus in our spirit...

Jesus said in john:3:3
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Ah yes.when we were once sinners.

He can’t indwell our spirit as a Born Again, our sin must be forgiven before he can bring our spirit from death to life.

We live in a body of sin...our spirit is free from sin, when we become Born Of God’s seed...only the Spirit can set us free from sin...

We aren’t in the flesh were in the spirit....our spirit is Born Again and is reconciled back to God.

Gods word also says, that a Born Again cannot sin because they have been Born of Gods seed.

 

[David1701]

I read this again more carefully and retract my comment.

I only saw this after I'd posted my reply to your retracted comment. I've left my post to stand, because I think it's worthwhile to clarify what Calvin's view was.

 

[Alive]

Here's the quote you gave.

"Not willing that any should perish. So wonderful is his love towards mankind, that he would have them all to be saved, and is of his own self prepared to bestow salvation on the lost. But the order is to be noticed, that God is ready to receive all to repentance, so that none may perish; for in these words the way and manner of obtaining salvation is pointed out. Every one of us, therefore, who is desirous of salvation, must learn to enter in by this way.

But it may be asked, If God wishes none to perish, why is it that so many do perish? To this my answer is, that no mention is here made of the hidden purpose of God, according to which the reprobate are doomed to their own ruin, but only of his will as made known to us in the gospel. For God there stretches forth his hand without a difference to all, but lays hold only of those, to lead them to himself, whom he has chosen before the foundation of the world."

It's clear that Calvin thought that God wished none of mankind to perish, rather than only none of the elect, at least according to God's revealed will in the gospel. I disagree with his interpretation.

See post #161

 

[Alive]

To be clear…I do believe that The Holy Spirit by Peter was communicating He wished no elect to perish.
From our perspective, the subject may be obvious…perhaps not so much those in the day. They did not have the sources we do.

 

[Carbon]

I believe this paragraph from Calvin makes it easy to understand his position. I see his position as, though God stretches forth His hand to all mankind, it’s obvious the reprobate are doomed, and scripture stays in harmony as with the parable of the sower and the seeds. There is a prepared ground, and that is exactly where the sower is headed but some falls along the waysides. God does not have to explain his plan in every letter or passage. It’s all in harmony. Aren’t we to interpret the implicit by the explicit?

But it may be asked, If God wishes none to perish, why is it that so many do perish? To this my answer is, that no mention is here made of the hidden purpose of God, according to which the reprobate are doomed to their own ruin, but only of his will as made known to us in the gospel. For God there stretches forth his hand without a difference to all, but lays hold only of those, to lead them to himself, whom he has chosen before the foundation of the world. 35

 

[Ritajanice]

Without the penned word we could never grow and mature in Christ, because what is revealed to our heart/ spirit, we need the penned word to make sure it was from God’s Spirit.

You would never die as you know in your spirit that you are Born Again, we just wouldn’t mature and grow.if we never had the Bible.

 

[Ritajanice]

There is a prepared ground,

Yes, our heart/ spirit is prepared in us by Gods Spirit, ...we receive His Spirit in his perfect timing...it’s incredible how he does it....it’s also mind blowing when the Spirit testifies with our spirit.

 

[Carbon]

He can’t indwell our spirit as a Born Again, our sin must be forgiven before he can bring our spirit from death to life.

Your sin has been forgive on the cross. All his elect. At the (appointed) time of their salvation, is when it is applied. The Spirit indwells us because of what Christ has done for us, not because of anything we do.

 

[Ritajanice]

Your sin has been forgive on the cross. All his elect. At the (appointed) time of their salvation, is when it is applied. The Spirit indwells us because of what Christ has done for us, not because of anything we do.

This is where we disagree, our spirit is forgiven, it’s because of the cross that our sins can be forgiven...Jesus took our sin upon himself...we must be Born Of The Spirit to even understand the cross.

How do we know God just by looking to the cross..?we know God exists in our spirit.thats why we must be Born Again.

Our spirit is reconciled back to God when we have been Born Of His seed..His Living seed..who is the Holy Spirit.

Our spirit must be right before God.

 

[Ritajanice]

Your sin has been forgive on the cross

How would you know that the cross existed?

Who witnesses that truth?

 

[Carbon]

This is where we disagree, our spirit is forgiven, it’s because of the cross that our sins can be forgiven...Jesus took our sin upon himself...we must be Born Of The Spirit to even understand the cross.

How do we know God just by looking to the cross..?we know God exists in our spirit.thats why we must be Born Again.

Not sure what you mean about our spirits being forgiven? Sorry.

It is because of the cross that our (the elect) sins “are forgiven” not can be forgiven. The cross didn’t make it possible, it made is so and effective.

 

[Carbon]

How would you know that the cross existed?

Who witnesses that truth?

How would I know? By the Spirit.

 

[Ritajanice]

Not sure what you mean about our spirits being forgiven? Sorry.

What in us is reconciled back to God?

It is because of the cross that our (the elect) sins “are forgiven” not can be forgiven. The cross didn’t make it possible, it made is so and effective.

That doesn’t make sense, sorry.

The cross didn’t make our spirit Born Again.

 

[Carbon]

How would I know? By the Spirit.

@Ritajanice
It’s not knowing it existed, it’s believing it existed, and knowing Christ.

 

[Ritajanice]

How would I know? By the Spirit.

So how can the cross forgive our sins?..or am I misunderstanding?

Where in you would you know about the cross?

 

[Ritajanice]

@Ritajanice
It’s not knowing it existed, it’s believing it existed, and knowing Christ.

Believing it existed, can only come by the spiritual rebirth/ divine revelation.

You can’t believe the cross or anything about it unless one has been Born Of God’s seed.

Then the word of God will be revealed to our heart...that can take years and years to understand in the spirit...it has for me anyway.

God had to get me right in my heart that was full of human teachings...before he could bring me in my spirit to understand his word...

 

[Carbon]

What in us is reconciled back to God?

That doesn’t make sense, sorry.

The cross didn’t make our spirit Born Again.

Christs atonement wasn’t probable it was definite. It accomplished just what it was meant for. Jesus said it was finished, he did not say it will be finished later in time.

When you were born again, is when salvation was applied to you. It’s already been paid for. Jesus was the surety.

Do you know of and understsnd headship theology?