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What end time view do you hold to?

What Eschatology is your view?


  • Total voters
    15
Nevertheless, gates are defensive. I like how Heiser communicated this and I agree. Christendom,, has had this backwards, for the most part.
Walls are defensive. Gates are both offensive and defensive. A gate is a breach in the defense of a wall. It's a great big hole they use to bring things in and out.

All of this is sort of beside the point as the original point was the existence of rooms within the gate where disputes were judged.
 
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I reckon I'm the example of an outsider being in a Clique; so in a way, there are no Cliques...

I'm a notorious middle man, I fit in a lot of Cliques. Sometimes I have to squeeze in; but when I'm in, I'm in...

The Bible says if you want a friend, show yourself to be friendly; and as long as it's up to you, live at peace with everyone...

As long as I'm able, I'm going to try to help everyone here to be at Peace. Let's just have fun, don't take anything personal. Love conquers All...
You have been the penultimate everyman so far. I have done my best to respect that, hence offerings for consideration, nothing forced. You should have all the information you can get to make an educated decision if you ever decide to.
 
I am leaning toward amillenialism, but really not sure about a lot of things eschatologically.

I will say this and take the hits. I do not believe that anyone alive today, fully understands the letter 'Revelation'. I am however convinced that those to whom it was originally circulated did--because the Holy Spirit made sure of it via the teachers present.

I think what I am proposing explains much of the confusion in christendom. I also believe what has contributed to this confusion and scarcity of open minds is the dynamic created by the saturation of Darbyism and the LaHaye books and that ilk, in western civ.
Its difficult to counter a good movie.
:)
 
Its difficult to counter a good movie.
:)

I think most directors are plagued by Baptist syndrome when it comes to movies. Christian movies, except for a very very few, are uniformly bad. And even then...are they Christian? Ben Hur for example.

And I mean awful in the modern sense. They want to dance but are afraid it's a sin so they fall on their faces.
 
I think most directors are plagued by Baptist syndrome when it comes to movies. Christian movies, except for a very very few, are uniformly bad. And even then...are they Christian? Ben Hur for example.

And I mean awful in the modern sense. They want to dance but are afraid it's a sin so they fall on their faces.
Yup--my wife and I enjoy Ben Hur and the others of that era, but I drive her crazy always pointing out the errors scripturally.
Still--at least in Ben Hur, there are some good lessons...IMO.
 
I am not sure if cliques are forming, or if they were already existing and were brought here. It is almost impossible to avoid. I have always wound up on the outside. The ultimate outsider. However, I am VERY sensitive to my actions (when I realize them), and think too much about other people, and not enough about myself
I too have always been an outsider. My life is full of bullying, betrayal, loss, exclusion. It eats at a person until they come to think they deserve all this because something is wrong with them. In spite of this I remain true to my personality but with these scars affecting the way in which it is expressed. Outspoken, driving to the heart of a matter with sword drawn, low on patience, high on frustration. Trying to shake sense into a person rather than dealing with the matter with a gentle and quiet spirit (which I wish I had but do not) and so it comes across in a confrontational manner to many.

On every forum I have joined I am immediately attacked, ganged up on, bullied by other posters gathering together like wolves joining a fight simply from the sounds of battle, ridiculed, set upon and often even by staff. That is naturally going to produce a stance of defensiveness. And it is very difficult for me to slink ( for that is what it feels like to me) quietly into the shadows. I talk back!

But if you were being sensitive to your actions when you posted that post to me, then you intentionally set out to insult and demean me by presenting yourself as holding the moral high ground and me as the arrogant jerk. However, I accept your apology and will get on to the portion of the post I said I would respond to. We are all are a work in progress.

I have a feeling forums are full of outsiders who then do to others what has been done to us, because it is easy and anonymous. I have watched many make progress which suggests they are possibly a place God uses in the sanctification process, if we listen to Him and act accordingly. I have seen many who don't even recognize they are doing anything against God's holiness. I know I have made enormous progress, I cringe looking back. And I know I still have a long way to go, and I know that I will never fully "arrive." It is not anonymous----God sees and hears, all the way down into our hearts and our motives.
 
I am leaning toward amillenialism, but really not sure about a lot of things eschatologically.

I will say this and take the hits. I do not believe that anyone alive today, fully understands the letter 'Revelation'. I am however convinced that those to whom it was originally circulated did--because the Holy Spirit made sure of it via the teachers present.

I think what I am proposing explains much of the confusion in christendom. I also believe what has contributed to this confusion and scarcity of open minds is the dynamic created by the saturation of Darbyism and the LaHaye books and that ilk, in western civ.
Its difficult to counter a good movie.
:)
In a way, the Book of Revelation is written in Code to the People of it's day. I don't want to get in trouble for calling it Code, but some of it is Clearly symbolism for what has happened. The Dragon gathering a third of the Stars from Heaven? That's Lucifer's Fall (and I don't want to get in trouble for calling satan Lucifer)...

My point is, if we could find someone from that time and ask them what they thought Revelation means; that would be great. Maybe they could tell us if it was written before or after 70 AD...
 
In a way, the Book of Revelation is written in Code to the People of it's day. I don't want to get in trouble for calling it Code, but some of it is Clearly symbolism for what has happened. The Dragon gathering a third of the Stars from Heaven? That's Lucifer's Fall (and I don't want to get in trouble for calling satan Lucifer)...

My point is, if we could find someone from that time and ask them what they thought Revelation means; that would be great. Maybe they could tell us if it was written before or after 70 AD...

None of that "code" is new though. And your thorough faring Hebrew would have recognized it ( the symbolism ) all from the OT. It's a *very* "Jewish" book, Rev. So if you want to interpret it correctly you have the key. It just takes a few hundred hours of audio. Several times.
 
In a way, the Book of Revelation is written in Code to the People of it's day. I don't want to get in trouble for calling it Code, but some of it is Clearly symbolism for what has happened. The Dragon gathering a third of the Stars from Heaven? That's Lucifer's Fall (and I don't want to get in trouble for calling satan Lucifer)...

My point is, if we could find someone from that time and ask them what they thought Revelation means; that would be great. Maybe they could tell us if it was written before or after 70 AD...
I am convinced of the early writing, but I am not nearly as well versed in those things as some members here.. I tend to stick to what I am convinced the Lord has taught me. I have asked the Lord to give me an understanding of Rev., but its not there and I know for certain that if He wanted me to understand, then I would.
Frankly, what I have witnessed over the years--particularly in forums--is a grand distraction vis a vis; holding a newspaper in one hand and a bible in the other. It simply takes up too much space--IMO. Where is the desire for discussion of spiritual growth and how the very Life of Christ in us--works. Those things.
Aaarrrggghhhhh.
 
None of that "code" is new though. And your thorough faring Hebrew would have recognized it ( the symbolism ) all from the OT. It's a *very* "Jewish" book, Rev. So if you want to interpret it correctly you have the key. It just takes a few hundred hours of audio. Several times.
Yes---good points made. I think 'understanding' also relates to the current events and what Jesus said would happen soon and to what audience.
Its interesting when my wife and I set in the morning and listen to scripture, how clear the narrative is....for Pete's sake--just quiet down and listen.
LOL
 
I reckon I'm the example of an outsider being in a Clique; so in a way, there are no Cliques...

I'm a notorious middle man, I fit in a lot of Cliques. Sometimes I have to squeeze in; but when I'm in, I'm in...

The Bible says if you want a friend, show yourself to be friendly; and as long as it's up to you, live at peace with everyone...

As long as I'm able, I'm going to try to help everyone here to be at Peace. Let's just have fun, don't take anything personal. Love conquers All...
I think we are all passionate about our beliefs. The tricky or difficult thing online is to not let those passions result in putting the other person down whom we are disagreeing with and as you well know I have been very good at that in the past. My goal now is to be at peace with all men especially those in the household of faith, my brothers and sisters in Christ. I want to respect the beliefs of those brothers/sisters in Christ I disagree with and treat them the same way as those I agree with and not have a bias. I no longer want to be right or win an argument and prove another person is "wrong" in m view. That is what I use to do and be about which inevitably would cause division and dissension. And I believe most of us here are tired of that type of behavior and want something more, something better. Iron sharpens iron and we can build one another up in the faith instead of tearing down each other. That is the new me in 2023. Hey that rhymes I see a rap song coming 🤣
 
I am convinced of the early writing, but I am not nearly as well versed in those things as some members here.. I tend to stick to what I am convinced the Lord has taught me. I have asked the Lord to give me an understanding of Rev., but its not there and I know for certain that if He wanted me to understand, then I would.
Frankly, what I have witnessed over the years--particularly in forums--is a grand distraction vis a vis; holding a newspaper in one hand and a bible in the other. It simply takes up too much space--IMO. Where is the desire for discussion of spiritual growth and how the very Life of Christ in us--works. Those things.
Aaarrrggghhhhh.
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. - Romans 14:5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans14:5&version=NIV

This is how I think about our differences; especially when it comes to Eschatology. I would just like to be Convinced in my Mind; one way or another...
 
I think we are all passionate about our beliefs. The tricky or difficult thing online is to not let those passions result in putting the other person down whom we are disagreeing with and as you well know I have been very good at that in the past. My goal now is to be at peace with all men especially those in the household of faith, my brothers and sisters in Christ. I want to respect the beliefs of those brothers/sisters in Christ I disagree with and treat them the same way as those I agree with and not have a bias. I no longer want to be right or win an argument and prove another person is "wrong" in m view. That is what I use to do and be about which inevitably would cause division and dissension. And I believe most of us here are tired of that type of behavior and want something more, something better. Iron sharpens iron and we can build one another up in the faith instead of tearing down each other. That is the new me in 2023. Hey that rhymes I see a rap song coming 🤣
Amen--the thing is, love, grace, mercy and gentleness flows like a river from Christ within. We need only have the faucet turned on. How? By getting out of the way.
To me--this is most evident with forgiveness. There is an ample supply available to us and through us.
 
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. - Romans 14:5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans14:5&version=NIV

This is how I think about our differences; especially when it comes to Eschatology. I would just like to be Convinced in my Mind; one way or another...
I believe the most important thing Jesus and the Apostles taught was His Immanent return and to be ready at all times for it will come at a time/hour when you least expect. We are to have our lamps full and to anticipate His return as a bride waits for her husbands return and is looking for it beings ready for Him.


His 2nd Coming

“In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.” John 14: 2, 3

“Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven.” Acts 1: 9 – 11.

“They shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” Matthew 24: 30

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him.” Revelation 1:7

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Revelation 22:12-14

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draws nigh. Luke 21:24-28

I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. 2 Timothy 4:7-8

And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that does righteousness is born of him. 1 John 2:28

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2

If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 1 Corinthians 15:19-23

And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10

That you keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 1 Timothy 6:14

I charge you therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Timothy 4:1
 
So here is a final question that will deal with your last sentence. What are you waiting for before Jesus physically returns to Earth? For me, I'm waiting now for nothing, because there are no signs left to wait for. The way things are going, if He doesn't come soon it is going to be really bad. Some people spend a lot of time researching things that are going on, or are in a position where such information comes with the territory. For those who believe things are getting better, I wish I could live in that fantasy world. When you have seen as much as some of us have, the only hope left is Christ, not the world. It is why so many say, come quickly, Lord.
My last sentence:
Don't count on being "raptured" out of here when the worst of the worst comes. Be ready. And that means more than being saved. Don't miss the purpose and message of Revelation which is not predominately a book of revealing the future. It is revealing Jesus Christ----as the title says, and a book of different perspectives on Him over the course of all history until and after His return.
This is five sentences but just the last one would not make sense as to your question, so assume it is what you meant. I am waiting for Him to return, not for something to happen first.

In Revelation we see a series seven judgments containing seven judgements, with an interlude between the sixth and seventh in which we are given a picture in symbolic form of heaven. It is my contention that these seven, sevens are parallel shown from different perspectives, not consuagitive.

Each series culminates in the second coming, and immediately before His second coming there is persecution of the church world wide and as never seen before. Though I do not believe in the widely accepted seven year tribulation period, and since I don't believe that I also don't believe in either a pre or mid rapture, I do see that the Bible tells us it will be get worse and worse for the church as the day approaches. And we see it in the judgments.

All of this means that all those still alive at that time had best be prepared, faith solid and strong, in order to endure it even to the point of martyrdom. For example will we be grounded enough when only those who bow down to this world system are provided with food? WIll we be strong enough in our trust in God to remember that He still has the power to send ravens to send us food, to make a plant spring up out of dry ground? To say even if I die, yet I live? Will we be angry at God because we believed all along that He would spare us any of this by rapturing us out of here before it happened?
 
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