Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?

[Mr GLee]

Yes and all that it implies

I would think it means

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

What do you think it represents ?

 

[donadams]

I would think it means

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

What do you think it represents ?

You are my purgatory

 

[Mr GLee]

You are my purgatory

And not our invisible head Christ the husband Sorry not a two timer.Not into pain any a form of purgatory . One husbands Christ one bride the church the infalible teacher . sorry .........No drayman Pope

Like my brother in the Lord Timothy

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree (CCC) the book of the law of dying fathers Why not the sola scriptura tree in the center of the garden that Christian eat from. Food the disciple's knew not of, the food to hearing the understanding the Father not seen and power to perform to the good pleasure of the one Holy Father, Christ the husband

 

[Mr GLee]

You are my purgatory

Why do despite to the fullness of Christ our invisible head grace the full price of salvation? What's the hope?

A remnant of grace unknow wondering and suffering after one dies( Dead faith) ,You call that the gospel.???? What do you think the verse is applied below .Seems like the suffering shoe fits .Why make a mockery of the fulness of Christ grace ?

Its been reported the queen mother visits and comforts the Protestant's who are also sufferings . True?

Is it because only a Queen mother of heaven received the fulness?

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

 

[donadams]

Why do despite to the fullness of Christ our invisible head grace the full price of salvation? What's the hope?

A remnant of grace unknow wondering and suffering after one dies( Dead faith) ,You call that the gospel.???? What do you think the verse is applied below .Seems like the suffering shoe fits .Why make a mockery of the fulness of Christ grace ?

Its been reported the queen mother visits and comforts the Protestant's who are also sufferings . True?

Is it because only a Queen mother of heaven received the fulness?

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

“Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race.”!
St. Irenaeus

... the Church confesses that Mary is truly “Mother of God” (Theotokos).

From among the descendants of Eve, God chose the Virgin Mary to be the mother of his Son. “Full of grace,” Mary is “the most excellent fruit of redemption” (SC 103): from the first instant of her conception, she was totally preserved from the stain of original sin and she remained pure from all personal sin throughout her life. Lk 1:28 Lk 1:49

 

[Kermos]

Not Paul writing rather the finger of God The apostles are a nothing they are non-venerable.

First, you convey that God exclusively controls man with your "Not Paul writing rather the finger of God", not self-willed man controlling himself, but God exclusively controlling man.

Not purported ( appearing or stated to be true, though not necessarily so) But absolutely true . Adam was under the letter of the law "death" (thou shall not or you are dead) The earthen body returns to dust and the Holy Spirit of the law returns to the Holy Father who gave it under the letter temporal (thou shall not)

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Romans 7:6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

From my experience many disregard the letter of the law ( the Bible) To them is not regarded as the instrument of death called the second death the death of death tossed into the fiery judgement .

The letter it will not rise up and condemn through corruption, dying, a entire creation .The old thing of this world will not be remembered or ever come to mind

One appointment die once. No digging up the dead

The Cadaver Synod: Putting a Dead Pope on Trial

Some teach God will resurrect the dead and give them a retrial (double jeopardy).

Second, you convey that self-willed man exclusively controls himself with your "Not purported ( appearing or stated to be true, though not necessarily so) But absolutely true" in response to "God willpowering purported 'free will' into man", not God controlling man, but self-willed man exclusively controlling himself.

Mr GLee, the result of the first point plus the second point concludes with you expressing confusion, and "God is not of confusion but of peace" (1 Corinthians 14:33).

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

 

[Mr GLee]

First, you convey that God exclusively controls man with your "Not Paul writing rather the finger of God", not self-willed man controlling himself, but God exclusively controlling man.



Second, you convey that self-willed man exclusively controls himself with your "Not purported ( appearing or stated to be true, though not necessarily so) But absolutely true" in response to "God willpowering purported 'free will' into man", not God controlling man, but self-willed man exclusively controlling himself.

Mr GLee, the result of the first point plus the second point concludes with you expressing confusion, and "God is not of confusion but of peace" (1 Corinthians 14:33).

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

I Agree no free will

Not so sure what you mean by Second, you said that self-willed man exclusively controls himself with.

He believes the lie as if it was absolutely true, self deception.

 

[Kermos]

Thanks for the clarification. Still wrong.

Your point is that you wrote that the following statement is wrong, "Largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ"; therefore, you wrote that man does not choose Jesus Christ.

Part 1 of 3 examining your post #56.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

 

[Kermos]

Freewill offerings unto the Lord or free choices toward God.

Behold, your phrase "freewill offering" is a mistranslation of the Hebrew language, so "freewill offering" is an evil adulteration to the Word of God.

Freewill is not a part of the Hebrew word נְדָבָ֖ה (Strong's 5071 - nedabah) of which the English Bible translators/linguists moved from "freely" (plentiful, heave, abundant) over the centuries into "freewill", and the following demonstrates this fact.

The Meaning Of The Words "Freewill Offering" As Used In The Old Testament

First, as translated, "freewill offering" is in the Old Testament, so this is not the New Testament. There are differences.

Second, as God's chosen people, the Israelites had instruction about the "freewill offering" in the Old Covenant.

Third, the definition behind "freewill offering" must be examined according the source word נְדָבָ֖ה in the Hebrew of the Old Testament. This word נְדָבָ֖ה (nedabah) has a Strong's number of 5071.

DEFINITION: from H5068; properly (abstractly) spontaneity, or (adjectively) spontaneous; also (concretely) a spontaneous or (by inference, in plural) abundant gift:-free(-will) offering, freely, plentiful, voluntary(-ily, offering), willing(-ly), offering) (this Strong's defintion obtained from BlueLetterBible.org 5071).

Fourth, the definition behind "freewill offering" must be examined according the source word αφαίρεμα in the Greek of the Old Testament in the Septuagint. This word αφαίρεμα does not appear in the New Testament, so it does not have a Strong's number, but it has been assigned a number of "850.4" in the Apostolic Bible Polyglot.

DEFINITION: That which is cut off as a choice part; a choice portion; a cut-away portion.

Fifth, it is written in the Old Testament "The Israelites, all the men and women, whose heart moved them to bring [material] for all the work, which YHWH had commanded through Moses to be done, brought a freewill offering to YHWH" (Exodus 35:29).
AND there is a Hebrew word for "choose", but it is not here, so it does not state "who chose to bring", yet it does state "whose heart moved them to bring"
AND this offering is for material for the work as opposed to choosing toward God
AND this is the first occurrence of "freewill offering" in the NASB
AND the people brought abundant offerings for it is written "They received from Moses all the contributions which the sons of Israel had brought to perform the work in the construction of the sanctuary. And they still [continued] bringing to him freewill offerings every morning. And all the skillful men who were performing all the work of the sanctuary came, each from the work which he was performing, and they said to Moses, 'The people are bringing much more than enough for the construction work which the LORD commanded [us] to perform.' So Moses issued a command, and a proclamation was circulated throughout the camp, saying, 'Let no man or woman any longer perform work for the contributions of the sanctuary.' Thus the people were restrained from bringing [any more]" (Exodus 36:3-6)
SO it is clear that the synonyms נְדָבָ֖ה (nedabah) in Hebrew and αφαίρεμα in Greek denote a heartfelt gratuitous offering.

Sixth, based upon Biblical usage neither of these words translate to "freewill" as in "freewill choice toward God":

• נְדָבָ֖ה (nedabah) in Hebrew
• αφαίρεμα in Greek

Seventh, based upon definitions, neither of these words translate to "freewill" as in "freewill choice toward God":

• נְדָבָ֖ה (nedabah) in Hebrew
• αφαίρεμα in Greek

Eighth, "freewill" is an inappropriate translation of נְדָבָ֖ה (nedabah) in Hebrew.

Nineth, going back to the 14th century, the Tyndale et al translation uses "heave offering" in Exodus 36:3-6, and "heave" (old English "hebban") means "raise" - not the word "freewill" - but the word "heave".

Tenth, based upon both Scriptural usage and definitions, both of these words translate to spontaneous heartfelt gratuitous premier portion offering:

• נְדָבָ֖ה (nedabah) in Hebrew
• αφαίρεμα in Greek

Jesus and the Apostles quoted out of the Septuagint as recorded in the New Testament.

The Septuagint uses the word αφαίρεμα which translates to "the choice portion" which references an offering.

The Brenton Septuagint Translation version of Exodus 35:29 reads as "And every man and woman whose mind inclined them to come in and do all the works as many as the Lord appointed them to do by Moses- they the children of Israel brought an offering to the Lord".

The Brenton Septuagint Translation version contains "an offering" with no mention of "freewill".

Freewill is not a part of the Hebrew word נְדָבָ֖ה (Strong's 5071 - nedabah) of which the English Bible translators/linguists moved from "freely" (plentiful, heave, abundant) over the centuries into "freewill", and the above demonstrates this fact.

Part 2 of 3 examining your post #56.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

 

[Kermos]

Please do.

No man chooses Jesus Christ to be their christ, nor their favorite personal god.

Jesus was denouncing the pagan worship of the day for local deities, and chooses patron gods.

He is the only true God and Christ, whether anyone chooses to believe it or not.

Man now chooses to repent for Jesus' sake, or not.

You wrote "Man now chooses to repent for Jesus' sake", so you convey that you personally chose Jesus (the degree of choosing matters not because Jesus indicates no exceptions), so your thoughts adulterate the Word of God in order for you to conjure up a non-existent ability to do the opposite of Lord Jesus Christ's sayings:

The Book of Ghada		The Book of John
you did free-will choose Me, and I chose you (Ghada 15:16).		you did not choose Me, but I chose you (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16).

so the Word of God declares to His audience of all believers in Christ in all time the exclusive Sovereignty of God in choosing man unto salvation, yet your heart's exalts man to the very spot that Christ reserves unto Himself.

For those choosing to repent from the world of iniquity.

You wrote "For those choosing to repent from the world of iniquity", so you convey that you personally chose to turn to Jesus (the degree of choosing matters not because Jesus indicates no exceptions), so your thoughts adulterate the Word of God in order for you to conjure up a non-existent ability to choose Lord Jesus Christ:

The Book of Ghada		The Book of John
You chose to turn to Me so now I gain the ability from you to choose you out of the world (Ghada 15:19).		I chose you out of the world (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation).

so the Word of God declares to His audience of all believers in Christ in all time the exclusive Sovereignty of God in choosing man unto salvation, yet your heart exalts your sovereignty of man while demoting the Sovereignty of God.

Free will is not achieved, but given freely when made in the image of God.

No Word of God states that man was imparted a free-will, so you must add free-will into the Word of God to acheive your purported free-will - just as shown above in Ghada 15:16.

Yes.

No. Man can be double hearted, but God does not accept it.

Behold, your thoughts are absent any Word of God.

Every person has a will, but a person's will is either one of but not both of (1) a self-will against God in evil for the natural flesh person (2 Peter 2:9-10) or (2) a will in Christ doing God's good by the Holy Spirit for the Born of God (Romans 8:29, Philippians 2:13, John 3:3-8).

Yes. All men and women are.


Yes. We all are by right of creation in God's image.

You've yet to show justification for rejecting Scripture stating our freewill to give to God or not.

But of course, the only way is to ignore it, as you continue to do. Show how freewill in the Bible is not freewill. I'd be glad to see that one. Take your time.

Part 3 of 3 examining your post #56.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

 

[Ghada]

Behold, your phrase "freewill offering" is a mistranslation of the Hebrew language,

No.

Freewill is not a part of the Hebrew word נְדָבָ֖ה (Strong's 5071 - nedabah) of which the English Bible translators/linguists moved from "freely" (plentiful, heave, abundant) over the centuries into "freewill", and the following demonstrates this fact.

The Meaning Of The Words "Freewill Offering" As Used In The Old Testament

First, as translated, "freewill offering" is in the Old Testament, so this is not the New Testament. There are differences.

Second, as God's chosen people, the Israelites had instruction about the "freewill offering" in the Old Covenant.

Third, the definition behind "freewill offering" must be examined according the source word נְדָבָ֖ה in the Hebrew of the Old Testament. This word נְדָבָ֖ה (nedabah) has a Strong's number of 5071.

DEFINITION: from H5068; properly (abstractly) spontaneity, or (adjectively) spontaneous; also (concretely) a spontaneous or (by inference, in plural) abundant gift:-free(-will) offering, freely, plentiful, voluntary(-ily, offering), willing(-ly), offering) (this Strong's defintion obtained from BlueLetterBible.org 5071).

Fourth, the definition behind "freewill offering" must be examined according the source word αφαίρεμα in the Greek of the Old Testament in the Septuagint. This word αφαίρεμα does not appear in the New Testament, so it does not have a Strong's number, but it has been assigned a number of "850.4" in the Apostolic Bible Polyglot.

DEFINITION: That which is cut off as a choice part; a choice portion; a cut-away portion.

Fifth, it is written in the Old Testament "The Israelites, all the men and women, whose heart moved them to bring [material] for all the work, which YHWH had commanded through Moses to be done, brought a freewill offering to YHWH" (Exodus 35:29).
AND there is a Hebrew word for "choose", but it is not here, so it does not state "who chose to bring", yet it does state "whose heart moved them to bring"
AND this offering is for material for the work as opposed to choosing toward God
AND this is the first occurrence of "freewill offering" in the NASB
AND the people brought abundant offerings for it is written "They received from Moses all the contributions which the sons of Israel had brought to perform the work in the construction of the sanctuary. And they still [continued] bringing to him freewill offerings every morning. And all the skillful men who were performing all the work of the sanctuary came, each from the work which he was performing, and they said to Moses, 'The people are bringing much more than enough for the construction work which the LORD commanded [us] to perform.' So Moses issued a command, and a proclamation was circulated throughout the camp, saying, 'Let no man or woman any longer perform work for the contributions of the sanctuary.' Thus the people were restrained from bringing [any more]" (Exodus 36:3-6)
SO it is clear that the synonyms נְדָבָ֖ה (nedabah) in Hebrew and αφαίρεμα in Greek denote a heartfelt gratuitous offering.

Sixth, based upon Biblical usage neither of these words translate to "freewill" as in "freewill choice toward God":

• נְדָבָ֖ה (nedabah) in Hebrew
• αφαίρεμα in Greek

Seventh, based upon definitions, neither of these words translate to "freewill" as in "freewill choice toward God":

• נְדָבָ֖ה (nedabah) in Hebrew
• αφαίρεμα in Greek

Eighth, "freewill" is an inappropriate translation of נְדָבָ֖ה (nedabah) in Hebrew.

Nineth, going back to the 14th century, the Tyndale et al translation uses "heave offering" in Exodus 36:3-6, and "heave" (old English "hebban") means "raise" - not the word "freewill" - but the word "heave".

Tenth, based upon both Scriptural usage and definitions, both of these words translate to spontaneous heartfelt gratuitous premier portion offering:

• נְדָבָ֖ה (nedabah) in Hebrew
• αφαίρεμα in Greek

Jesus and the Apostles quoted out of the Septuagint as recorded in the New Testament.

The Septuagint uses the word αφαίρεμα which translates to "the choice portion" which references an offering.

The Brenton Septuagint Translation version of Exodus 35:29 reads as "And every man and woman whose mind inclined them to come in and do all the works as many as the Lord appointed them to do by Moses- they the children of Israel brought an offering to the Lord".

The Brenton Septuagint Translation version contains "an offering" with no mention of "freewill".

Freewill is not a part of the Hebrew word נְדָבָ֖ה (Strong's 5071 - nedabah) of which the English Bible translators/linguists moved from "freely" (plentiful, heave, abundant) over the centuries into "freewill", and the above demonstrates this fact.

Still no.

2Ti 3:7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[Ghada]

You wrote "Man now chooses to repent for Jesus' sake", so you convey that you personally chose Jesus

No.

Anyone created in God's image has power to do good or evil. People repent of all manner of things for many reasons, because we choose to. Lives change by choice. Only the animals have no intelligent reasoning to make decisions about how they live.

You're preaching to and for the dumb beasts of no free will.

2Pe 2:12But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

You're preaching the natural beast's lie against man being created in the image of God, in order justifiy when you choose to do evil.

so the Word of God declares to His audience of all believers in Christ in all time the exclusive Sovereignty of God in choosing man unto salvation,

And I've never met any predestinator Calvinist, that didn't believe he was one of the prechosen to life. It's always someone else they say is prechosen to destruction.

And yet, they never confess themselves to be saints actually conformed to the Lord's righteous and holy image and will in live. Figure that.

yet your heart's exalts man to the very spot that Christ reserves unto Himself.

That's only when man in his own pride presumes to know good and evil for himself, as equal to or above His righteousness.

Gen 3:4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: {3:5} For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Acknowledging we have free will by creation in the image of God, is not self-exaltation, but is the beginning of the fear and wisdom of the Lord, that we are judged by our deeds.

Brute beasts, pagan fatalists, and childish slaves to the flesh, say they have no choice in the matter.

You wrote "For those choosing to repent from the world of iniquity", so you convey that you personally chose to turn to Jesus

True.

Deu 30:10If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.

Turning to the Lord Jesus is not choosing Jesus to oneself.

Turning to the Law of the land is not choosing a law to oneself. We either turn to the law to obey, or be condemned by the law to death.

The Book of Ghada
You chose to turn to Me so now I gain the ability from you to choose you out of the world (Ghada 15:19).

This is stupid.

		I chose you out of the world (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation).

This is the Lord choosing to sanctify from the world of imiquity, them that choose to repent and turn to Him.


The command for all men everywhere to repent for Jesus' sake, is declaration of man having power of free will to freely do so.

No Word of God states that man was imparted a free-will,

Free will is in Scripture.

No free will, is not in Scripture.

Behold, your thoughts are absent any Word of God.

Behold. Your thoughts are absent any truth.

Nor sense, since you contradict yourself by choosing to post this stuff.

And the pseudo-scholar speak only makes is boorish.

2 Timothy{6:20} O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane [and] vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.

1 Cor{14:33} For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Every person has a will,

Every animal has a spirit and will, by which it breathes and lives and does all things, until death. Without free choice in the matter.

Every person created in the image of God, has a freedon of will by which we choose to do good or evil.

 

[Mr GLee]

No.

Still no.

2Ti 3:7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Free will, the food for spiritual strength needed to works the works of Christ who woks with us to both to understand and empower dying mankind to do to his good pleasure (Philippian 2:13 )

The food the disciples knew not of at first our daily bread hidden manna

John 4:33-35King James Version Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?
Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

 

[Ghada]

but a person's will is either one of but not both of (1) a self-will against God in evil for the natural flesh person (2 Peter 2:9-10) or (2) a will in Christ doing God's good by the Holy Spirit for the Born of God (Romans 8:29, Philippians 2:13, John 3:3-8).

Here is where free will to serve the Lord, is only in the hands of them that are born of God in Christ Jesus.

Every man has freedom to do good or evil by the power at hand. But only the sons and saints of God have power to love and walk as the Lord, with a pure heart and clean hands.

Jhn 1:12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
All sinners have power of creation to choose to do a good or bad deed. But child of disobedience has power to cleanse their own heart, and serve the Lord blamelessly.

Only man can repent of His deeds, but only Jesus Christ can circumcise the foreskin of lust from a corrupt heart. Without a pure heart of faith in Jesus Christ, no man can please the Lord, nor choose to of his own will.

Self-will of sinners has power to freely choose to do good or bad, but no sinner can be delivered from self-will of lust, to have power to freely choose to do God's righteousness and live in His holiness in all things.

All men created int he image of God have power to choose to do good or evil. But, only the saints of God can choose to continue pleasing the Lord, with power to keep the heart clean from lust. Or, choose to return to lust and be cut off from the Lord's holy family and kingdom service, to serve their own will with the children of disobedience.

For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

 

[Ghada]

Free will, the food for spiritual strength needed to works the works of Christ who woks with us to both to understand and empower dying mankind to do to his good pleasure (Philippian 2:13 )

The food the disciples knew not of at first our daily bread hidden manna

John 4:33-35King James Version Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?
Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

As just another sinner in the world, you have no free will to serve the Lord with a pure heart and clean hands.

As another person created in the image of God, you have power to freely beleive and do whatever you will for yourself. Until the grave.

Bondage to Lust removes liberty to serve the Lord. Lust does not remove liberty to do a good or bad deed.

Saints have no lust of the world to bound them to the world. Sinners can serve their own lust or not, but cannot serve the Lord.

The gospel promise of Jesus Christ, is that any person can now freely repent of our deeds, and the Lord will take away the lust, that cannot freely please Him.

Jhn 1:29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world

 

[Kermos]

Not grammatically.

Only doctrinally corrupt to your own doctrine, which is why you translate it grammatically corrupt.

You failed to hear the Word of God, instead you hear the KJV doctrinally corrupt rendering of Genesis 2:16-17.

The Hebrew is accurately translated to English here.

The Meaning Of The Hebrew Words אכל(akal)/"eat" and מות(muth)/"die"in Genesis 2:16-17​

In reality, the word "freely" does not appear in the Hebrew of the Genesis 2:16-17 passage. The Hebrew source word for "freely" is truly "to eat" in English for Genesis 2:16.

Also, the word "may" does not appear in the Hebrew of the passage. The Hebrew source word for "may" is truly "you will be eating" in English for Genesis 2:16.

The word "surely" can surely lead to misinterpretation of the passage since the Hebrew source word for "surely" is truly "to die" in English for Genesis 2:17.

First, we need to look at the passage, so here is Genesis 2:16 from three different angles: New American Standard Bible, Hebrew Bible, and Interlinear.

The Lord God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may freely eat;" (Genesis 2:16, NASB)
ויצו יהוה אלהים על האדם לאמר מכל עץ הגן אכל תאכל
(Genesis 2:16, Hebrew Bible, historians say accent marks for vowels did not appear in early Hebrew script)

and-commanded YHVH God unto the-man saying of-every tree of-the-garden to-eat you-eating (Genesis 2:16, Interlinear word(s) for word(s) translation of English from Hebrew)
​

Now, here is Genesis 2:17 from three different angles of NASB, Hebrew Bible, and Interlinear.

"but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." (Genesis 2:17, NASB)
ומעץ הדעת טוב ורע לא תאכל ממנו כי ביום אכלך ממנו מות תמות
(Genesis 2:17, Hebrew Bible, historians say accent marks for vowels did not appear in early Hebrew script)

but-of-the-tree of-the-knowledge of-good and-evil not you-eating from when in-the-day you-to-eat of-it to-die you-dying (Genesis 2:17, Interlinear word(s) for word(s) translation of English from Hebrew)
​

Second, we need to look at the lexical construction.

The final two words of both verses follow similar patterns. The final two words are verbs. The final two words have the same root word. The first word is the Qal (Strong's 7031 - light, swift, fleet) infinitive absolute verb form (to be). The second word is the qal (Strong's 7031 - light, swift, fleet) imperfect second person masculine singular verb form (incomplete action thus present tense applies and past tense can be included and future tense can apply).

In Hebrew grammar, the qal is the simple paradigm and simplest stem formation of the verb.

The word roots are easily distinguishable when carefully examined.

Here are the final two Hebrew words of Genesis 2:16, אכל תאכל, notice the consistent word root. Both of these words are Strong's 398 - eat.

Here are the final two Hebrew words of Genesis 2:17, מות תמות, notice the consistent word root. Both of these words are Strong's 4191 - die.

The sixth word of Genesis 2:17 is תאכל which is precisely the same word that appears as the second of the two last words at the end of the Genesis 2:16, so we have a point of reference for this word.

Notice that the Hebrew word אכל (Strong's 398 - eat) in Genesis 2:16 is not the Hebrew word חפשי (Strong's 2670 - free).

Third, it is prudent to mention that the Masoretes added the vowel accents into the Hebrew written manuscripts. The Masoretes were a sect of Jews that lived after Jesus ascended to heaven. We have earlier copies of Hebrew manuscripts that contain consonants only, so the Hebrew consonant only script is what I use here in this essay. I use the consonant only script because it more closely represents the original Hebrew writing.

Fourth, it's time to apply proper translation.

In Genesis 2:16, the final two words "אכל תאכל" (to-eat you-eating) are of significant relevance to this topic since both of these words are of the root "eat".

The first of the two words "אכל" (Strongs 398 - eat) is the infinitive verb form thus it translates to English as "to-eat"; however, some English translations use the word "freely", yet "freely" is an inappropriate translation of "eat" because the word is not the Hebrew word for "free" while it is the Hebrew word for "eat".

The second of the two words "תאכל" (Strongs 398 - eat) is the imperfect verb form thus it translates to English as "you-eating".

These two words essentially result in the first part of the command being "of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating" thus liberty of action without punishment is expressed. Also, instead of the permissive of "may" as part of the "eat" verb, it is appropriate for "will" to be part of the "eat" verb; in other words, "may eat" is the wrong translation., and "will eat" is the correct translation.

In Genesis 2:17, the final two words "מות תמות" (to-die you-dying) are of significant relevance to this topic since both of these words are of the root "die".

The first of the two words "מות" (Strongs 4191 - die) is the infinitive verb form thus it translates to English as "to-die"; however, some English translations use the word "surely", yet "surely" is an inappropriate translation of "die".


The second of the two words "תמות" (Strongs 4191 - die) is the imperfect verb form thus it translates to English as "you-dying".

These two words essentially cause the end of the command to say "day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying" thus the punishment is expressed.

continued to post #227

 

[Kermos]

continued from post #236

Fifth, conclusions based on the above.

Since some people say proper translation of "to eat" and "to die" depend on the Hebrew language construct, so then there should be no problem switching "freely" to "surely" in Genesis 2:16; furthermore, there should be no problem switching "surely" to "freely" in Genesis 2:17; however, switching or keeping "freely" and/or "surely" causes confusion, yet God is not of confusion but of peace (1 Corinthians 14:33).

After all, "to-eat" followed by "you-will-be-eating" and "to-die" followed by "you-will-be-dying" have the same language construct of "qal infinitive absolute verb form" (to eat/to die) followed by "qal imperfect second person masculine singular verb form" (you-will-be-eating/you-will-be-dying).

The current English translation of "to eat" to "freely" is arbitrary in Genesis 2:16.

As it stands in the English translations, the translation of "to die" to "surely" is arbitrary in Genesis 2:17.

If one says that the vowel marks dictate the language construct, then such a one relies on the Masoretic Manuscript edits that the Masoretes added nearly 2,000 years after the original manuscripts, so that is arbitrary and capricous in Genesis 2:16-17.

The bottom line is that "to eat" must be translated "to eat", and "to die" must be translated "to die".

The word "freely" in the English translations of Genesis 2:16 should not be used because the underlying Hebrew word truly means "to eat".

The word "surely" in the English translations of Genesis 2:17 should not be used because the underlying Hebrew word truly means "to die".

The word "may" in the English translations of Genesis 2:16 improperly represents the underlying Hebrew; rather, the word "will" (verb future tense) is appropriate based on the underlying Hebrew word.

Genesis 2:16-17 contains a command, the word "command" in Genesis 2:16 is singular, not plural, but singular, so all of the Word of God recorded in Genesis 2:16-17 is a single command. The word "may" in Genesis 2:16 used in the English translations linguistically reduces the command to a request because the option of eating from none of the trees would be valid with the word "may"; however, with the word "will" (verb future tense) then the Integrity of a command linguistically remains intact.

For the sake of consistency, if we apply the word "may" into the last of the final two words of Genesis 2:17, just as the English translators did in Genesis 2:16, then it becomes err apparent that the word "may" fails in that position for both verses. The result for Genesis 2:17 would be essentially "day you are to eat of it to die you may be dying" thus a potential punishment is expressed, so this is ambiguous. God is precise, so ambiguous does not work.

This demonstrates that the verbs used by God to construct the final two words of Genesis 2:16 and Genesis 2:17 do not contain the word "may".

For Genesis 2:16-17 to be true to form, conjugates of "eat" must be used for each of the final two words in Genesis 2:16, and conjugates of "die" must be used for each of the final two words in Genesis 2:17.

Proper Translastion Based On The Hebrew​

First, Genesis 2:16:
and commanded YHWH God to the man, saying "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating"

Second, please see this essay's "The Meaning Of The Hebrew Word כִּ֗י(ki)/'for'/'when' in Genesis 2:17 Comparison With Other Portions of Scripture" section explaining the usage of the grammatically accurate word "when".

Third, Genesis 2:17:
"but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying"

Fourth, properly bringing the two verses cohesively together to illuminate the entire command Genesis 2:16-17:and commanded YHWH God to the man, saying "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying"

You embrace improper semantics and illegal grammar and corrupt doctrine regarding Genesis 2:16-17, and the preceding explanation clearly and precisely outlines your personal error. The Genesis 2:16-17 free-will adulteration that you preach is not the Word of God, but, rather, your KJV Genesis 2:16-17 is the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

If the Lord Wills, then I shall return to address more of your post #57.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

 

[Mr GLee]

The first of the two words "מות" (Strongs 4191 - die) is the infinitive verb form thus it translates to English as "to-die"; however, some English translations use the word "surely", yet "surely" is an inappropriate translation of "die".

That would seem to remove the spiritual understanding .

So then if not surely ?. . .Maybe you will die ?

.The wage of sin purgatory??

Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Jesus said not as I dying mankind wills but you the one with the powerful work of faith faith "let there be" . Not Limbo maybe it will be.

 

[Kermos]

No. God's words are all inspired by God the same today as yesterday.

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Changes of language, does not change His words spoken today, the same as yesterday.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that the Word of God (John 1:14) is the same yesterday and today and forever (Hebrews 13:8).

The Word of God content recorded in the Hebrew language with Genesis 2:16-17 of yesterday (relatively speaking) fails to be matched by the English language content produced by the KJV human translators of today (relatively speaking); therefore, you do not have the Word of God for Genesis 2:16-17, but you have the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9) for your maltranslated KJV Genesis 2:16-17.

You wrote "Changes of language, does not change His words spoken today, the same as yesterday", but the KJV is a change of content in addition to a change of language, so the KJV does change God's Word into something other than God's Word for Genesis 2:16-17.

Impressive. If I wanted to learn more Greek, I'd be interested.

So, you would eagerly eat the culinary dish from the example, after all, you did write "Impressive".

You exhibited disregard for accurate translation from the Hebrew language to the English language respecting Genesis 2:16-17 as demonstrated in post #236, so God caused me to present the culinary example expressing the essential requirement for translational accuracy, and you were dismissive the culinary example with your "No".

If the Lord Wills, then I shall return to address more of your post #57.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

 

[Ghada]

You failed to hear the Word of God, instead you hear the KJV doctrinally corrupt rendering of Genesis 2:16-17.

The Hebrew is accurately translated to English here.

The Meaning Of The Hebrew Words אכל(akal)/"eat" and מות(muth)/"die"in Genesis 2:16-17

In reality, the word "freely" does not appear in the Hebrew of the Genesis 2:16-17 passage. The Hebrew source word for "freely" is truly "to eat" in English for Genesis 2:16.

Also, the word "may" does not appear in the Hebrew of the passage. The Hebrew source word for "may" is truly "you will be eating" in English for Genesis 2:16.

The word "surely" can surely lead to misinterpretation of the passage since the Hebrew source word for "surely" is truly "to die" in English for Genesis 2:17.

First, we need to look at the passage, so here is Genesis 2:16 from three different angles: New American Standard Bible, Hebrew Bible, and Interlinear.

​

The Lord God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may freely eat;" (Genesis 2:16, NASB)​

ויצו יהוה אלהים על האדם לאמר מכל עץ הגן אכל תאכל​

(Genesis 2:16, Hebrew Bible, historians say accent marks for vowels did not appear in early Hebrew script)​

​

and-commanded YHVH God unto the-man saying of-every tree of-the-garden to-eat you-eating (Genesis 2:16, Interlinear word(s) for word(s) translation of English from Hebrew)​

​

Now, here is Genesis 2:17 from three different angles of NASB, Hebrew Bible, and Interlinear.

​

"but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." (Genesis 2:17, NASB)​

ומעץ הדעת טוב ורע לא תאכל ממנו כי ביום אכלך ממנו מות תמות​

(Genesis 2:17, Hebrew Bible, historians say accent marks for vowels did not appear in early Hebrew script)​

​

but-of-the-tree of-the-knowledge of-good and-evil not you-eating from when in-the-day you-to-eat of-it to-die you-dying (Genesis 2:17, Interlinear word(s) for word(s) translation of English from Hebrew)​

​

Second, we need to look at the lexical construction.

The final two words of both verses follow similar patterns. The final two words are verbs. The final two words have the same root word. The first word is the Qal (Strong's 7031 - light, swift, fleet) infinitive absolute verb form (to be). The second word is the qal (Strong's 7031 - light, swift, fleet) imperfect second person masculine singular verb form (incomplete action thus present tense applies and past tense can be included and future tense can apply).

In Hebrew grammar, the qal is the simple paradigm and simplest stem formation of the verb.

The word roots are easily distinguishable when carefully examined.

Here are the final two Hebrew words of Genesis 2:16, אכל תאכל, notice the consistent word root. Both of these words are Strong's 398 - eat.

Here are the final two Hebrew words of Genesis 2:17, מות תמות, notice the consistent word root. Both of these words are Strong's 4191 - die.

The sixth word of Genesis 2:17 is תאכל which is precisely the same word that appears as the second of the two last words at the end of the Genesis 2:16, so we have a point of reference for this word.

Notice that the Hebrew word אכל (Strong's 398 - eat) in Genesis 2:16 is not the Hebrew word חפשי (Strong's 2670 - free).

Third, it is prudent to mention that the Masoretes added the vowel accents into the Hebrew written manuscripts. The Masoretes were a sect of Jews that lived after Jesus ascended to heaven. We have earlier copies of Hebrew manuscripts that contain consonants only, so the Hebrew consonant only script is what I use here in this essay. I use the consonant only script because it more closely represents the original Hebrew writing.

Fourth, it's time to apply proper translation.

In Genesis 2:16, the final two words "אכל תאכל" (to-eat you-eating) are of significant relevance to this topic since both of these words are of the root "eat".

The first of the two words "אכל" (Strongs 398 - eat) is the infinitive verb form thus it translates to English as "to-eat"; however, some English translations use the word "freely", yet "freely" is an inappropriate translation of "eat" because the word is not the Hebrew word for "free" while it is the Hebrew word for "eat".

The second of the two words "תאכל" (Strongs 398 - eat) is the imperfect verb form thus it translates to English as "you-eating".

These two words essentially result in the first part of the command being "of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating" thus liberty of action without punishment is expressed. Also, instead of the permissive of "may" as part of the "eat" verb, it is appropriate for "will" to be part of the "eat" verb; in other words, "may eat" is the wrong translation., and "will eat" is the correct translation.

In Genesis 2:17, the final two words "מות תמות" (to-die you-dying) are of significant relevance to this topic since both of these words are of the root "die".

The first of the two words "מות" (Strongs 4191 - die) is the infinitive verb form thus it translates to English as "to-die"; however, some English translations use the word "surely", yet "surely" is an inappropriate translation of "die".


The second of the two words "תמות" (Strongs 4191 - die) is the imperfect verb form thus it translates to English as "you-dying".

These two words essentially cause the end of the command to say "day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying" thus the punishment is expressed.

continued to post #227

Ecc 12:12And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

You know someone is peddling lies against Scripture, when it takes volumes to explain why freely do things is not by free will.

Gen 2:16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

Lev 22:21And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD to accomplish his vow, or a freewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted;

Ezr 2:68 And some of the chief of the fathers, when they came to the house of the LORD which is at Jerusalem, offered freely for the house of God to set it up in his place:

Ezr 7:15And to carry the silver and gold, which the king and his counsellors have freely offered unto the God of Israel, whose habitation is in Jerusalem,
Psa 54:6I will freely sacrifice unto thee: I will praise thy name, O LORD; for it is good.

Mat 10:8Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Rev 22:17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Much simpler, and most importantly, true.