Understanding the The 1000 Year Millennium in Prophecy

[Mr GLee]

Jesus the Son of man is the Christ come in the flesh.

1Jo 4:3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

]2Jo 1:7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

1Jo 2:22Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Christ the husband did come working in the flesh of the Son of man Jesus and left in it .The Holy Spirit remined reigning on earth as it does today

Christ's Holy Spirit worked in and with the Son of man Jesus dying mankind. For over two thousands years mankind cannot know him ever again .

God is not dying mankind .He uses dying mankind to display is invisible powerful love.

2 Corithians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

If we do not know Christ who worked in the flesh of Jesus why anyone? Unity of the Spirt of faith not dying flesh and blood

God is not a racist as one form of government today teaches he is. . . blaming others who say they are accusing them of promoting racisms . which they are

 

[Ghada]

Strawman fallacy~you are attacking a strawman that we are not even considering.

The first man recorded in Scripture to be resurrected from the dead, is Jesus Christ.

That He was the first resurrected from the dead, has everything to do with no man being resurrected from the dead before Him.

In the gospels and writings of the apostles, Jesus Christ is thus far the only man resurrected from the dead.

This has been overstated enough. Until a Scripture is produced that speaks of a resurrection before Jesus Christ, or a spiritual rebirth being called a resurrection, then it's only a personal doctrine uncondirmed by Scripture of Christ.

This has not one thing to do with the doctrine of the new birth.

The resurrection of Jesus Christ also has everything to do with being newborn of God, because no man is born again until and by His resurrection from the dead:

1 Peter{1:3} Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

You have more problems than I first realized. So, no one was resurrected from the dead before Jesus' death and resurrection?

Now you understand. No Scripture speaks of any resurrection of the dead, until the man Christ Jesus. And no Scriptrue speaks of any man resurrected from the dead until His second coming. And no Scripture speaks of being newborn as resurrection from the dead.

2Ti 2:16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Scripture condemns anyone teaching that the resurrection is past and now.

It leads to more ungodly living and overthrows the faith of some. Them that believe they are already now and forever resurrected from the dead, are led to cast off the fear of the Lord's judgment of their sinful works.

1 Peter{1:14} But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; {1:16} Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. {1:17} And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear:

Jesus even upbraided Nicodemus for being a master in Israel, and not understanding the doctrine of the new birth.

By you making such a statement, proves to me that you have very little knowledge concerning the doctrine of Soteriology.

Soteriology is the branch of theology dealing with the study of salvation. The term comes from the Greek soterion, “salvation,” and is also related to soter, “savior.” Soteriology relates to several other branches of theology and the sense of how the scriptures uses the words save/saved/salvation.

For the sake of time please consider: https://letgodbetrue.com/sermons/index/year-2015/when-was-paul-saved/

Ecc 12:12And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
Any child can know how God speaks of being saved with the salvation of Jesus Christ, by reading the Bible.

Act 17:11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Any child can learn what God says of His salvation by reading it in the Bible. Modern technology makes such searching of Scriptures all the easier, by simple Bible online word search.

Have you never read so much as these words:Psalms 32:1,2~" Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile."

God forgives and cleanses any man from his old sins, that are repented of for Jesus' sake and mercy.

All through the Psalms of David he describes two generation of people, one that is righteous, and one that is evil and wicked.

True. Only those doing righteousness are righteous as the Lord, and only those doing unrighteousness are of the devil.

1 John{3:7} Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous

1Jo 3:8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

No man can love and obey God apart from being made a new creature through Jesus' perfect faith and obedience.

True. And no man can believe and obey God without first repenting of his own sinning by his own faith.

The just shall live by the faith of God. The unjust shall live by the faith of sinners.

No man can have faith until they are born again.

No man can recieve Jesus' saving faith, until they repent of sinning and trespassing against Him.

God's command to all men is repent. Jesus' gospel to them that repent is salvation from sinning.

Jesus' gospel is repent unto salvation and sin not. Man's alternative gospel is believe unto salvation and repent to only sin less.

The natural man is at enmity against God and is not subject unto the word of God and neither can be.

Exactly. Which is why hard-hearted unrepentance or double-hearted partial repenters, still have the old lust and carnal minds, that does not believe the Scripture to do right at all times.

Psa 106:3Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

Ezek 18:31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Jerem 3:10And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

Neither can they believe with the heart unto righteousness, because they repent not of all their sins and trespasses.

But many OT men and women did please God and obey the word of God. Some were called the friend of God, and many of them suffered greatly for their faith and love, and fear of God.

True. Not all Israel was unrepentant or lukewarm toward the God of Israel. Neither are all Christians unrepented, or double hearted in the faith of Jesus Christ.

Too bad you do not hear Abel speaking on how he was made righteous by the power and mercy of God alone!

I don't count any teaching not found in Scripture as a good thing. Nor do I count it a bad thing not to hear or know of it, much less believe it.

 

[Ghada]

He certainly was not born righteous, but born with a depraved nature that is at enmity against the God of heaven.

One of the oldest lies about Christ, is that He now makes man in the image of the devil, with a sin nature from the womb.

Christ has rebuked it many times in Scripture, by declaring all men are created in His image, and lightened by Christ coming into the world. It's the soul that sins that dies to Christ by sinning, not by creation and birth with lust. The sins of the parents are not passed on to the children, but the children must partake of the parent's sins to follow and be like them.

And finally Jesus condemns the lie of any man being created and born a sinner, when He rebukes His disiciples for believing it:

Jhn 9:2And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Those who want to believe such a lie, can thank their doctrinal forefathers among the Jews, who believed, preached, and condemned others as being born in sin:

Jhn 9:34They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out.

Christ is the only Maker of all things, and still creates all men and women in His pure, good, and righteous image.

God is not the Author of lust and sin in angels nor men, nor does He tempt any man to sin by creating any babe sinful in the flesh.

His brother was born likewise with the same nature after the image of Adam's fallen nature and he was left in that state, according to the will of God who is not under obligation to any sinner to show them mercy.

Making any creature sinful by creation, is not the will of the true God and Christ. Yesterday, today, and forever He makes all His creatures for His good pleasure, not for His wrath.

Rev 4:11Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

It's only the will of the god of this world, for angels and men to be made sinners by lusting to sin. And he is not a creator nor maker of anything but a lie. He is only a tempter for men created by Christ, to defile themselves in the image of himself.

 

[Ghada]

Above scriptures, Peter made it very clear that he was begotten by God through the work of Christ, who secured our gift of eternal life.

The only surety in our salvation from sinning in this life, is by doing the word of promise: If we add the good and godly things necessary to our faith, we shall never fall back to sinning and trespassing the Lord's commandments:

2Pe 1:3Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
The gospel of faith unto secured salvation is man's alone. And it is also accompanied with the ungodly admonition not to add anything to our faith, nor to be justified of God by works of His righteousness and charity.

The great and precious promises of the gospel of Jesus Christ to them that repent, is salvation from the lust and corruptions of the world, and recieving His faith to do His will and please the Father at all times.

1Th 4:1Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Even as He walked on earth, so can His brethren and holy saints of God.

It was impossible for Christ to fail,

True. Jesus Christ never fails by sinning against the Father. And so, it is impossible for Christ to justify anyone sinning against the Son and the Father.

Gal 2:17But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Christ does not minister sin to His own body, by justifying anyone sinning against God.

It is impossible for the Head who knows no sin, to know any member of His body is sinning.

and God knowing acted upon the sure foundation of Christ finishing the work of redemption was given to him to do.

The work of making all sinners guilty of His shed blood at the cross, was given by the Father to do at the cross.

The work of making sinners into saints by repentance for Jesus sake, is given by the Father to do by His resurrection from the dead.

 

[Ghada]

You said true, and then proceeded to say something totally against what I said.
Red Baker said:
Without question the resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked takes place together and that, on the last day,

When we learn to rightly divide what God says in Scripture, we will also learn to rightly divide what others teach from Scripture.

It is true in Dan 12, that the righteous and the unrighteous will be resurrected unto life and shame, on that last day of this heaven and earth at the GWT.

Dan 12:2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

However, we see how exacting Christ is in His prophecies of Scripture: The prophecy is only for some of them that sleep in the grave, both the righteous and unrighteous shall resurrect together, and so not all from history.

Rightly dividing the word of truth begins with the discipline of rightly reading exactly what is written, and what is not.

Those not part of those resurrected at the last day, have part in the blessed first resurrection of saints only, at the Lord' second coming to recieve His own unto Himself in the air.

OT prophecy reveals the last resurrection and judgment of both righteous and wicked dead together. NT prophecy reveals the first resurrection of only the righteous dead a thousand years before.

We must first read Scripture with exacting care. And we must allow NT prophecy doctrine to interpret and fulfill all OT prophecy.

Matthew 13:30​

“Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.”

This is the judgment seat of Christ at His return, when He divides by works between the righteous wheat and tares. The Tares are first rejected and culled from them naming the name of Christ, and the remaining wheat are resurrected to meet Him in the air.

The order of judging His people's works at His seat, is clarfied by this prophecy Scripture.

Psa 2:8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers:

He'll dash to pieces the bad vessels first, before harvesting the righteous wheat altogether at once.

Psa 119:119Thou puttest away all the wicked of the earth like dross: therefore I love thy testimonies.

Pro 25:4Take away the dross from the silver, and there shall come forth a vessel for the finer.

Jesus' prophecy also conforms to the judgment of Scripture, that first wipes away the dross from the silver, and first scrapes away the filth from the oil, and first divides the darkness from the light.

2Co 4:6For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

 

[Ghada]

Prove it with scriptures~

You demand 'proof' that a future harvest of souls to Christ upon the earth, will be greater than ever before? Why wouldn't someone naming Christ at least want to believe it?

1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind;...Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

But nonetheless, if you insist on Scriptural 'proof' of such a great future harvest during Jesus Christ's millennium on earth:

Zec 8:23Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Isa 2:2And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Psa 67:4O let the nations be glad and sing for joy: for thou shalt judge the people righteously, and govern the nations upon earth. Selah.

just because you have bought into this lie of the Scofield reference bible does not mean that it is so.

I read KJ. Not Scofield.

Christ will never reign on this present earth,

Makes you glad?

Most amils at least say He, and they, are already 'spirit' reigning on this earth.

And if this whole world lying in wickedness is any evidence, then that reigning certainly must be only in spirit, because it's certainly isn't in deed and in truth.

only on the new earth will all of his chosen people reign with him world without end, not just for a mere thousand years.

Exactly, which is further proof that the thousand year reign of Christ prophesied in Rev 20, must be upon this earth, because it expires.

The reign of Christ and His servants on the new earth does not expire at all.

Once anyone starts denying and changing one part of Scripture, they will need to deny and change other parts of Scripture. In order to do away with the promised thousand year reign of Christ on earth, they must also deny Scripture says it expires after a thousand years.

But then, if people can make the thousand years into some vague pseudo-thousand years, then I suppose the expiration can be only sort of expired.

And coincidentally, that also applies to the second death having no power over them reigning with Christ. Tha promise is only for the prophesied thousand year reign.

Rev 20:6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The promise of no second death is only for millennium reign, nor for any other reign claimed on earth, for however many years other than a thousand.

That's a giant let down for those who only preach their present resurrection and reign with Christ, just to claim the second death now has no power over them. That promise does not apply to them, but only to them reigning for a thousand years. That will be a serious blow to their faith, resurrection, and reigning at the grave. That's when the Father will go right ahead and judge them good or bad by their works on earth.

And finally, that reign must begin with the first bodily resurrection of the saints in Christ Jesus, because they shall reign with Him the whole thousand years together, not just in part. The longest living man on this earth was only for 969 years. Close, but no cigar.

 

[Mr GLee]

The first man recorded in Scripture to be resurrected from the dead, is Jesus Christ.

That He was the first resurrected from the dead, has everything to do with no man being resurrected from the dead before Him.

In the gospels and writings of the apostles, Jesus Christ is thus far the only man resurrected from the dead.

This has been overstated enough. Until a Scripture is produced that speaks of a resurrection before Jesus Christ, or a spiritual rebirth being called a resurrection, then it's only a personal doctrine uncondirmed by Scripture of Christ.

Two things God is not a man and neither can Christ die.

To be resurrected is to be given give new spiritual life.

Christ is the lamb slain from the foundation the 6 days he did work .Not the three days and nights demonstration of the finished work

 

[Red Baker]

The first man recorded in Scripture to be resurrected from the dead, is Jesus Christ.

That He was the first resurrected from the dead, has everything to do with no man being resurrected from the dead before Him.

In the gospels and writings of the apostles, Jesus Christ is thus far the only man resurrected from the dead.

This has been overstated enough. Until a Scripture is produced that speaks of a resurrection before Jesus Christ, or a spiritual rebirth being called a resurrection, then it's only a personal doctrine uncondirmed by Scripture of Christ.

Ghada, you recklessly use scriptures to support your doctrine. Scriptures must be read distinctly and then give them their proper sense so others can understand the the reading/preaching which you have demonstrated you are not gifted to do.

Elijah the prophet raised the widow of Zarephath’s son from the dead. The prophet Elisha raised the Shunammite woman’s son from the dead. The man raised out of Elisha’s grave (2 Kings 13:20–21) In the NT before Christ's death and resurrection: The three people Christ raised from the dead were the widow's son at Nain (Luke 7:11-17), Jairus' daughter (Matthew 9:18-26; Mark 5:21-43; Luke 8:40-56), and Lazarus (John 11:1-44). These all were before Christ resurrection~so, in what sense is it biblically true that Christ is the first begotten of the dead? There has to be a true sense in in which he was, to agree with the scriptures that testify he was indeed?

Jesus Christ the first that rose from the dead by his own power, and to an immortal life; for, though others were raised before him, and by him, yet not to a state of immortality; the path of life, to an immortal life, was first shown to him as man; and who also is the firstfruits of them that sleep, and so the pledge and earnest of the future resurrection of the saints; and is both the efficient and exemplary cause of it; the resurrection of the dead will be by him as God, and according to his own, as man.

Ghada~This has been overstated enough. Until a Scripture is produced that speaks of a resurrection before Jesus Christ, or a spiritual rebirth being called a resurrection, then it's only a personal doctrine unconfirmed by Scripture of Christ.

So now, what is your position? Nothing more than a personal doctrine not supported by God's testimony.

The rest of you post here would be taking us in another direction, even though I would love to discuss the doctrine of salvation with you in another thread. I would love to get to Revelation 20 as fast as possible.

 

[Red Baker]

One of the oldest lies about Christ, is that He now makes man in the image of the devil, with a sin nature from the womb.

Christ has rebuked it many times in Scripture, by declaring all men are created in His image, and lightened by Christ coming into the world. It's the soul that sins that dies to Christ by sinning, not by creation and birth with lust. The sins of the parents are not passed on to the children, but the children must partake of the parent's sins to follow and be like them.

And finally Jesus condemns the lie of any man being created and born a sinner, when He rebukes His disiciples for believing it:

Jhn 9:2And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Those who want to believe such a lie, can thank their doctrinal forefathers among the Jews, who believed, preached, and condemned others as being born in sin:

Jhn 9:34They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out.

Christ is the only Maker of all things, and still creates all men and women in His pure, good, and righteous image.

God created Adam and Eve, upright and placed them in a perfect world with all they needed to continue perfectly happy in that state which he created them~with one exception~he did not secure them in that state of holiness, possessing, true knowledge, wisdom and understanding~he left them to themselves. Just as he did some of the angles before them, with an exception of some of them he did secured by electing them. Since God alone is immutable, both angels and man fell as soon as God left them to themselves! When Adam fell into sin, he became a slave to his new master, the old serpent, called Satan. Not only did Adam and Eve died spiritually when they sinned, all of their offsprings are born after Adam's fallen nature, having his image that he now possess through the fall.

Genesis 5:3​

“And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:”

Which was now a depraved sinful nature that is at enmity against God~a nature that is not subject unto God, neither indeed can be, according to God's own testimony. Romans 8:5-8. Trying to keep this short, form taking aways from the thread's subject.

God is not the Author of lust and sin in angels nor men, nor does He tempt any man to sin by creating any babe sinful in the flesh.

Of course He is not, as I said, God saw all that he created and it was very good! Sin enter into the world through Adam as far as man goes ~ children born of flesh after Adam's sin, are sinful creatures by nature, being from Adam. How else can we explain righteously how God commanded certain men in the OT to wipe out nations, including suckling children, (1st Samuel 15:3; etc.) if they were not consider sinful by nature? You cannot! If they were born innocent, then God would be unrighteous in commanding them to be destroy, would you not agree? You do seriously err, not knowing the scriptures. All born through Adam's posterity are by nature children of wrath! Enough said for now on this subject.

 

[Mr GLee]

The first man recorded in Scripture to be resurrected from the dead, is Jesus Christ.

That He was the first resurrected from the dead, has everything to do with no man being resurrected from the dead before Him.

In the gospels and writings of the apostles, Jesus Christ is thus far the only man resurrected from the dead.

This has been overstated enough. Until a Scripture is produced that speaks of a resurrection before Jesus Christ, or a spiritual rebirth being called a resurrection, then it's only a personal doctrine uncondirmed by Scripture of Christ.

I would offer ressurection spiritual not seen the eternal things of God

The lifting up to new spirit life is reckoned by the actual work Christ's labor of love during the 6 day Christ our husband did work. the Lamb slain

It is not reckoned by the promised three day and nights demonstration spoken of in Genesis 3:15, and Isaiah 53

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Satan would make the demonstrated prophecy as if it was the actually spiritual work . Hiding the promise from the other side of the coin. . . Christ . . .not Caesar. . . Satan

I would think if every time we hear his voice and not harden ones heart we are raised up to the 7th day rest.

In that way we are resurrected every new day. Arise Lazarus a new day

Psalm 139:18 If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.

 

[JIM]

Jesus Christ the first that rose from the dead by his own power, and to an immortal life; for, though others were raised before him, and by him, yet not to a state of immortality; the path of life, to an immortal life, was first shown to him as man; and who also is the firstfruits of them that sleep, and so the pledge and earnest of the future resurrection of the saints; and is both the efficient and exemplary cause of it; the resurrection of the dead will be by him as God, and according to his own, as man.

Good morning my dear Friend.

What you have said relative to all those others who were raised from the dead is right on. However, there is no indication that Jesus was raised to a state of physical immortality. It seems clear enough to me that the body that Jesus came out the tomb with was the same body, mostly cured of the wounds inflicted before and on the cross, that He went in with. The occasion of Jesus' meeting with Thomas in John 20 clearly presents Jesus has having the body He was crucified with. And the occasion of Jesus' meeting the disciples in Luke 24, Jesus said to those disciples, "See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have" (v. 39). And we know from 1 Corinthians 15:50 that there is to be no "flesh and blood" in the kingdom of God. I suggest to you that there was nothing immortal about the body of Jesus either before or after the cross. Furthermore, In John 17:5, Jesus prayed to the Father, "And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed." Jesus in His pre-incarnate state did not possess a human body. I believe that upon His ascension God glorified Jesus with the glory that He had with the Father before the world existed was Spirit and only Spirit.

Just my thoughts.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Jesus Christ the first that rose from the dead by his own power

Absolutely true.

...and to an immortal life; for, though others were raised before him, and by him, yet not to a state of immortality;

Not true. This adds to scripture. Any bodily resurrections portrayed in scripture were to a state of immortality. Scripture doesn't present a superior "Grade A" resurrection and then a "Grade B" bodily resurrection in which the person can die again. Those bodily-resurrected from the dust of the grave become INCAPABLE of dying again - "...neither CAN they die anymore..." (Luke 20:35-36). That includes all those examples you listed who were raised before Christ, as well as the Matthew 27:52-53 saints, and everyone that was raised by the disciples during Christ's earthly ministry (Matthew 10:8) and after that, such as Dorcas.

Christ as the "First-begotten" was the first to ASCEND to heaven to the Father in a glorified, resurrected body. "This day have I begotten thee" was spoken to Christ Jesus in heaven at the time of His resurrection-day ascension to the Father. No other glorified, resurrected individuals ascended to heaven before Christ did this. Not even Enoch or Elijah. (John 3:13).

 

[JIM]

Absolutely true.


Not true. This adds to scripture. Any bodily resurrections portrayed in scripture were to a state of immortality. Scripture doesn't present a superior "Grade A" resurrection and then a "Grade B" bodily resurrection in which the person can die again. Those bodily-resurrected from the dust of the grave become INCAPABLE of dying again - "...neither CAN they die anymore..." (Luke 20:35-36). That includes all those examples you listed who were raised before Christ, as well as the Matthew 27:52-53 saints, and everyone that was raised by the disciples during Christ's earthly ministry (Matthew 10:8) and after that, such as Dorcas.

Christ as the "First-begotten" was the first to ASCEND to heaven to the Father in a glorified, resurrected body. "This day have I begotten thee" was spoken to Christ Jesus in heaven at the time of His resurrection-day ascension to the Father. No other glorified, resurrected individuals ascended to heaven before Christ did this. Not even Enoch or Elijah. (John 3:13).

You have no data to show that Jesus ended up in heaven in a glorified, resurrection body. He ended up being "glorified in the Father's own presence with the glory that He had with the Father before the world existed." That was not with any earthly physical body.

But this a bit outside the main topic so I will leave it at that.

 

[Mr GLee]

I would offer

The father bruising the heel of the Son of man, Jesus crushing the head of the serpent

By his bruises . . . sufferings to the unto death called hell and not dead never to rise. By His power we are healed.

The father working with Jesus the Son of man. God cannot die Jesus was strengthened by the grace of the father to both begin the work and finish it . The work of two empowered by one not seen .

The dynamic dual (original) Lone Ranger and Tonto (copies) .LOL

Jeremiah 30:1For thus saith the Lord, Thy bruise is incurable, and thy wound is grievous.

Cured of a incurable wound

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

 

[3 Resurrections]

However, there is no indication that Jesus was raised to a state of physical immortality. I

??!!!! You have got to be kidding.

"Knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. For in that He died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God." (Romans 6:9-10).

"And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec....But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them." (Hebrews 7:15-17, 24-25).

If Christ was not raised to physical immortality, then you have no high priest in heaven interceding for you, and your faith is in vain. You might as well pitch your Bible in the nearest dumpster and become an atheist.

He ended up being "glorified in the Father's own presence with the glory that He had with the Father before the world existed. That was not with any earthly physical body.

The dead, physical body of Christ that went into the tomb was the body that was changed and raised in an incorruptible, immortal condition that could never die again. See verses listed above. Nothing of Christ's physical dead body was left in that tomb after His bodily resurrection.

That same glorified, resurrected body of flesh and bones which the disciples handled and which ate and drank with them was the same body which ascended to heaven and is now appearing in the presence of God for us as our representative intercessor. He MUST be of the same human flesh and bones in order to be a representative Great High Priest for believers among humankind who also have bodies of flesh and bones.

"For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people." (Heb. 2:16-17).

 

[JIM]

??!!!! You have got to be kidding.

No, I am not kidding.

 

[Red Baker]

Absolutely true.


Not true. This adds to scripture. Any bodily resurrections portrayed in scripture were to a state of immortality. Scripture doesn't present a superior "Grade A" resurrection and then a "Grade B" bodily resurrection in which the person can die again. Those bodily-resurrected from the dust of the grave become INCAPABLE of dying again - "...neither CAN they die anymore..." (Luke 20:35-36). That includes all those examples you listed who were raised before Christ, as well as the Matthew 27:52-53 saints, and everyone that was raised by the disciples during Christ's earthly ministry (Matthew 10:8) and after that, such as Dorcas.

Christ as the "First-begotten" was the first to ASCEND to heaven to the Father in a glorified, resurrected body. "This day have I begotten thee" was spoken to Christ Jesus in heaven at the time of His resurrection-day ascension to the Father. No other glorified, resurrected individuals ascended to heaven before Christ did this. Not even Enoch or Elijah. (John 3:13).

Two old friends posted, you and Jim, glad to hear from both of you. You and I go back almost forty years, Jim, back around fourteen or so, even though I have never met Jim, but a lover of God for sure.

3R's~You very well could be correct, I'm still out about those folks that were resurrected, since the scriptures is silence concerning them. I've held that they must had died again, yet I cannot prove it. Jury is still out on that question, so to speak.

Thanks for your goldy input.

 

[Red Baker]

No, I am not kidding.

Jim, I know you are not, yet I must respectfully (being almost ninety years old) disagree with you.

 

[3 Resurrections]

I'm still out about those folks that were resurrected, since the scriptures is silence concerning them. I've held that they must had died again, yet I cannot prove it. Jury is still out on that question, so to speak.

The problem with that statement is that scripture is NOT silent concerning the state of those who were bodily resurrected in scripture. If scripture states that it is impossible for a bodily-resurrected saint to die again (and it does teach this in several places), then we are not at liberty to quibble about what happened to those bodily-resurrected saints in scripture. Scripture denies that these were capable of dying again, so they didn't. No reasonable doubts - no jury waiting to deliver a verdict on this - scripture has proved the case for immortality for all those examples in scripture raised from the dead.

You are an honest enough student of the Word of God to stick to what scripture teaches us about this, without leaving it up to human guesswork. And you are honest enough to say that you cannot prove that these died again. Not everyone who is challenged on this point can bring themselves to admit that they have no scriptural proof for a resurrected person dying again.

 

[JIM]

Jim, I know you are not, yet I must respectfully (being almost ninety years old) disagree with you.

I know that. But I do not love you less for being wrong