Understanding the The 1000 Year Millennium in Prophecy

[Ghada]

Calling parables fables is standard of refusing not rightly divide.

Calling someone's teaching something else, is standard of refusing the teaching.

It is important to follow the rules of interpretation.

Interpreting a teaching as something else, is a rule for dishonesty.

Remember without parables (prophecy) Christ the teaching master spoke not.

Only to unbelievers. If all He teaches and prophecies is only parable to you, then that's only because of your unbelief.

Sure doctrine and prophecy of Christ is only taught to them that believe and do as He says.

. hiding the eternal understanding of Christ's faith not seen. .

A work of Christ labor of love . "Let there be" and it was "God alone good." called the "law of faith", Christ working in us . (Romans 3:27)

Again without, not sometimes Christ spoke not. In that way its up to you to prove it is not a parable .

The historical or what you call plain the mixing recipe need or rightly divide the parable (2 Corihtinans 4:18)

The temporal historical must be mixed with the unseen eternal in order for us to receive the understanding of the mysteries of Christ's faith . Hid for those who seek after signs to wonder after.

2 Corinthians 4:18King James Version18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Again no mixing. . no gospel rest according to Hebrew 4

Hebrew 4 4 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

In that way knowing the bible has many mysteries of faith (the unseen things of God) Many rather than rightly divide the parable. They must make the mysteries of God into signs to wonder, wonder after after .

Satan the king of lying signs (his only voice)

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

No sign was given to wonder after . Jesus calls those who do seek after a sign to wonder after a evil generation. The generation of out of sight out of mind .No faith coming from Christ labor of love

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: (fulfilled)

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.(fulfilled)

Some people write in their own learned hieroglyphics to appear spiritual, mysterious, and prophetic. I don't bother to ask for clarification, when I see someone practicing at it.

2Co 3:12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

 

[Ghada]

The opening instruction sets the standard of interpretation called "signified" or called hidden manna in Revelation 2:17

Or, so-called hidden manna by some, that prefer mysterious parables rather than sure doctrine and prophecy of Christ.

1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

The sufferings of Christ signified to the prophets was certain about the suffering, but only yet unknown about His time of coming and name.

There was never any doubt about the suffering of Christ to the believers before His coming. Even as there is no doubt to the believers about His coming again to reign upon the earth for a thousand years.

The signified truth if His first and second coming was and is well known by believers in Him. It's only the sign of His coming that believers are left unsure of, for instruction in walking by faith, and not by sight.

 

[Mr GLee]

Or, so-called hidden manna by some, that prefer mysterious parables rather than sure doctrine and prophecy of Christ.

1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

The sufferings of Christ signified to the prophets was certain about the suffering, but only yet unknown about His time of coming and name.

There was never any doubt about the suffering of Christ to the believers before His coming. Even as there is no doubt to the believers about His coming again to reign upon the earth for a thousand years.

The signified truth if His first and second coming was and is well known by believers in Him. It's only the sign of His coming that believers are left unsure of, for instruction in walking by faith, and not by sight.

No signs were given It would seem you put more stock in lying signs to wonder after rather than parables prophecy

The law of interpretation must be applied It cannot be dismissed as good children's bedtime stories. Without is without

Matthew 13:34All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Hidden manna the daily bread of the living word. It is sure doctrine as prophecy . The signified figurative using the temporal historical to give the spiritual invisible understanding of Christ the husband of the church .

Revelation 1King James Version1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Not just sent but also signified it

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

The whole period of there were kings in Israel is presented as a parable until the time of the first century reformation .

Jesus says its a evil pagan generation that seeks after "signs" rather than prophecy alone No signs were given to wonder after. Christ is here he will leave like a thief in the night on the last day under the Sun

 

[Red Baker]

The error is calling spiritual rebirth in Christ, a resurrection. Scripture only uses the word resurrection for the body.

You are only showing one or two things: 1. Your pure ignorance of the scriptures, and I might add, maybe the hardest to overcome, since you make a boast of knowing scriptures while putting down others who do not agree with you. Do not take me wrong, there are times when boldness must be used, yet, not before your get to know who you are debating, because it may very well be a sincere child of God who is just in error, and needs some tender guidance and rebuke to help them to be more converted to the truth. 2. A person who will defend his biased doctrine above plain scriptures.

Being born again, is a spiritual resurrection taught by Jesus Christ himself, it is almost non-debatable, unless one is bold enough to argue with the Lord, and some are, are you one of them? This one point will take up this post, I'll be more than happy to come back and address every point you mention, no problem~and I will.

John 5:21~ For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.​

For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them.

Keep in mind the context – this is the first of two mentions of two great works. Two great works – giving life and judging – are here and repeated (5:26-27). In the OT, it was God quickening dead sinner to life, under the NT, he has given this power to his Son.

Even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

Here are powerful adverbs – as … even so – to equate the Father to the Son. Just like God the Father has power of resurrecting the dead, so does the Son. Jesus added for good measure that He resurrects according to His own will!

Here we should see all three resurrections – temporal, spiritual, and eternal. We start at the physical, but the following context takes it beyond (5:24-29). Jesus is the executive Person for spiritual and eternal life (Heb 4:12; James 1:18; Rev 1:18; 3:7; Ist Thes 4:16). Skipping down to verse 24.....

John 5:24~ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.​

Verily, verily, I say unto you.

Doctrine here is not a lesson to apostles about the ordo salutis of soteriology! Doctrine here is condemnation of those without life and facing His judgment!

He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me.

He identified those that heard the Son of God preach and believed on God for it. The murderous haters before Him had rejected Him, His word, and His Father. These verbs are present tense – heareth and believeth – of a gospel response.
Hath everlasting life.

Hath. Archaic. Third person singular present tense indicative of the verb have.

A man believing the gospel possesses eternal life as his property and his right. The grammar here by itself does not prove any priority or any cause and effect. However, we know from many other places eternal life precedes gospel faith.

And shall not come into condemnation.

Now we have some priority and a condition of evidence – faith proves no lake of fire. The form here is present tense hearing and believing and future justification.

But is passed from death unto life.

Now we have some priority and a cause and effect – faith proves regeneration. The form here is present tense hearing / believing and perfect tense is passed.

John 5:25~Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.​

Verily, verily, I say unto you.

Jesus continued to declare axioms or rules of doctrine of His role in salvation. He has risen to heights of glorious doctrine that fully justify this expression.

The hour is coming, and now is.

Note the difference between an hour present and one that was yet to come (28). Jesus now had the authority as the Son of God to resurrect men in regeneration.

When the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God. This resurrection comes in close connection to the gift of eternal life (5:24). We do not confuse this quickening by His voice with the general resurrection. The general resurrection is rather clearly distinguished by the words of v. 28. That resurrection is of all men that are in graves, neither fact is true here. There is different timing in that one was presently true and the other future. We receive this quickening to life, by the life-giving voice of Christ as regeneration. There is a quickening from death to life to be identified here (Eph 2:1-3). This is the first resurrection to save some from the second death (Rev 20:6). All who have experienced this resurrection, the second death has no power over, which proves it is a spiritual resurrection, for it would be no need to add that saying if it were not.

It is the voice of the Son of God here, not the voice of preachers about the Son. If we insert the voice of preachers or soul winners here, we must in 28 also. His shout will raise all dead bodies (28-29), so His voice is effectual here.
And they that hear shall live.

The hearing here is limited – it is not all as in the next resurrection of bodies. The hearing here is passive – in that dead cannot hear but come alive anyway. When Jesus resurrected Lazarus, His call was not an offer or a suggestion. When Jesus raised Lazarus, His call was effectual with power to give life.

John 5:26~For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;​

For as the Father hath life in himself.

Almighty God, Father of Jesus Christ, is the ultimate Source and Power of life. He breathed into man’s nostrils the breath of life for him to be a living soul. He was the power in Elijah and Elisha in the cases of resurrecting two sons. The LORD Jehovah has eternal life Himself and give it to whomsoever He will.

So hath he given to the Son to have life in himself.

Jesus is the resurrection and the life in all ways – bodily, spiritual, and eternal.

The key phrase is found in John 5:25~Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is.....So, are you going to go against Jesus' plain teaching that there is a spiritual resurrection happening now even while he was speaking and still is happening today, since this life given voice is not the preacher's but Jesus Christ imparting eternal life to whosoever he will. Give me you take on Ephesians 2:1.
While you are at this, you need to go back to:

Ephesians 1:19,20~"And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

I'll wait...

 

[Red Baker]

The first resurrection of the saints at Jesus' return, will include all the righteous of God since Abel.

As the old saying goes~Houston, we have a problem...with that teaching.

Again, we could prove this wrong by many examples using scriptures, but for now, we will only address Jesus' teaching on this subject, with a couple of more references.

John 5:25-29~"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

1. According to Jesus' teachings there was a resurrection that was present in his days (and even before)~we know this by the phrase: "now is"..so are you going to disagree with what Christ taught during his days upon the earth? Address the "now is" with your understanding. It should be interesting what you come up with, if you even attempt to do so.

2. "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."
Without question the resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked takes place together and that on the last day, again, according to Jesus' teaching, not mine, or any other man's teaching.

John 6:39,40~"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Again:

John 11:24​

“Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

One more for now:

1st Corinthians 15: 51,52~"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The resurrection of the saints shall takes place at the last trump! The seventh and final trumpet of Revelation! If I give you my last dollar in my pocket, that means I have no more to give you, simple math. This is the same trumpet found in Matthew 24 and 1st Thessalonians 4.

Yes, you have a major problem supporting your false teachings.

I'll be back to address every single line of post you made, and will not skip one.

 

[Mr GLee]

Only to unbelievers. If all He teaches and prophecies is only parable to you, then that's only because of your unbelief.

Thanks for the reply,

Believers must be careful how they hear who they say thy do. Not a salvation issue more of how can we heard the voice of Christ not seen and not the antichrist the voice of Satan

Two kinds of Parables. Proverbs meaning parable are moral parables .

Christ's parables, spiritual eternal. . unseen hid from them that seek after signs to wonder after .

I would offer from my experience with parables, the figurative or signified hermeneutics.

Many it seems shy away and might say only when the word parable is in view can we tell it is a parable. Like they did not start until the new testament.

I would think causing confusion mankind knowing there are mysteries of faith But rather seek after signs to wonder after which Christ called a evil generation, natural un-converted mankind rather than prohecy though parables .

Satan the king of lying signs to wonder, knowing God is no longer bringing new prophecy. . . the perfect is sealed with 7 seal till the last day under the Sun. Lucifer will continue to seduce mankind. I had a dream, a vision, heard a voice, a theophany out of body experience .

Jesus said beleive not he warned them before hand . the elect Christians will not be deceived.

It would seem the goal of the father of lies . . .do not follow the prescription needed to rightly divide the parables Follow mine "keep on wondering. . marveling . . Limbo/ purgatory

The 20/20 looking prescription

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, (historical) but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; (historical) but the things which are not seen are. . . . . . . eternal.

 

[Alive]

Thanks for the reply,

Believers must be careful how they hear who they say thy do. Not a salvation issue more of how can we heard the voice of Christ not seen and not the antichrist the voice of Satan

Two kinds of Parables. Proverbs meaning parable are moral parables .

Christ's parables, spiritual eternal. . unseen hid from them that seek after signs to wonder after .

I would offer from my experience with parables, the figurative or signified hermeneutics.

Many it seems shy away and might say only when the word parable is in view can we tell it is a parable. Like they did not start until the new testament.

I would think causing confusion mankind knowing there are mysteries of faith But rather seek after signs to wonder after which Christ called a evil generation, natural un-converted mankind rather than prohecy though parables .

Satan the king of lying signs to wonder, knowing God is no longer bringing new prophecy. . . the perfect is sealed with 7 seal till the last day under the Sun. Lucifer will continue to seduce mankind. I had a dream, a vision, heard a voice, a theophany out of body experience .

Jesus said beleive not he warned them before hand . the elect Christians will not be deceived.

It would seem the goal of the father of lies . . .do not follow the prescription needed to rightly divide the parables Follow mine "keep on wondering. . marveling . . Limbo/ purgatory

The 20/20 looking prescription

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, (historical) but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; (historical) but the things which are not seen are. . . . . . . eternal.

Is English your first language?

 

[Ghada]

So, by your statement above, do you reject applying a spiritual meaning to all scriptures, or most, or some.

2 Tim 3:16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

All Scripture given by the Spirit of Christ is spiritual in nature, and goes to the heart and soul of all matters of life.

Heb 4:12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Wrongly 'spiritualizing' the sure things of Scripture, such as historical and prophetic events, makes them false accounts. If the Red Sea did not part for dry ground to cross, then any allegorical teaching of it is akin to an Aesop fable. Same with the Lord's millennium if it is not for a thousand years upon the earth.

Spirit-only resurrection from the dead and reigning with Christ, undo sure doctrine and prophecy of Scripture. It's all become airy metaphor and allegory, not grounded in true events on earth, and is only inspired by the spirit of error, not of the true Christ:

Eph 2:2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Making the torment of hell into a parable without torment, and making the millennium of Christ into an allegory without a thousand years, is the same error of making the revelation of Jesus Christ into a coming of a fabulous fable.

2Pe 1:16For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

Could you answer this question, so I know exactly what you do believe and teach? Simple question, and I want a direct and simple answer please.

The thousand years prophesied of the Lord's reign upon the earth, will be for a thousand years until it expires a thousand years after it's beginning.

Any prophecy of the Lord reigning upon the earth for other than a thousand years, is not the prophecy of the Lord's millennium, nor of a millennium reign on earth.

Would you accuse Christ of preaching fables with this quote of him:

There is no accusation for teaching allegory, since it's not wrong to do so. The only accusation is for teaching a historical or prophetic event only as allegory.

Declaring the thousand year millennial reign prophecied by Christ, is not for a thousand years but is only as a thousand years, is accusing Christ of lying, and teaching allegory under the guise of future fact.

1 Cor{14:33} For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

If Christ's words are changed or added to into something else than written, then His sure prophecy is made and called a lie.

Rev 22:14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


Matthew 17:10-13~"And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist."

Teaching allegory is good, when we know it must be allegory, whether by context or direct statement:

Gal 4:23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

We can also say the two witnesses come in the power and Spirit of the OT prophets, so that their works of ministry on earth are more important than their names.

When reading Revelation we must use other scriptures to understand the highly symbolically language

Scripture can always be highly symbolic, whether in doctrine or prophecy, without being untrue events.

And there's nothing symbolic about a thousand years, and the thousand years expiring at the end of a thousand years.

Making only symbols out of revealed earthly and heavenly events in Scripture, makes the Bible full of fables. Teaching symbolic lessons from the Bible, without believing the events, is the spiritual and philosophic work of unbelievers in the words of the true God and Jesus Christ.

Col 2:8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

used by John in order to give the writings of the book Revelation its true biblical teaching, or else it would be impossible to come to the knowledge of the truth contained therein.

It's impossible to the know the truth of any book, that is changed at the will of the reader. And some readers of the Bible don't want to the know the truth of what the Author says, and so turns sure words into mere lofty allegories and parables.

We approach all scriptures at face value

Not all. The face value of a thousand years repeated 6 times in as many verses, with an expiration date of a thousand years, is a thousand years expiring after a thousand years.

Some add to the words to read as a thousand years, in order to change the value of it into something other than a thousand years.

​

 

[Ghada]

, and from there, we seek its true meaning by using others scriptures which are very clear in its teaching. We let other scriptures interpret Revelation for us, we do not let Revelation interpret others clear cut scriptures.

All sure Scripture must be allowed to interpret and prove any Scripture.

The OT prophecies beginning in Ps 67 of the Lord coming to inherit all nations and govern them upon the earth, is revealed to be only for a thousand years in Rev 20 of the NT. And revealed to be at His second coming to earth in Rev 19.

It all depends on how it is use~God's word is its own dictionary on how the Spirit uses His word.

Agreed. God defines the words He uses, by how He uses them. Such as salvation, justification, and judgment. But He never changes their plain meaning. A thousand is a thousand is a thousand. It is not as a thousand.

When we study scripture we will find that God often uses certain number relationships to signify things. For example the number 3 for the purpose or will of God, as in the 3 times Christ prayed, the 3 times the sheet was let down and God said kill and eat, the 3 times Paul sought the Lord that the thorn in the flesh would be removed from him, the 3 times God came seeking fruit on the fig tree, or the 3 days till the Temple was raised up, etc., etc.

3 is just the record given. If there is significance for it, the Scripture will reveal it.

Jhn 6:63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

All Scripture is spiritual going to the heart. Scripture of the Spirit does not need to be spiritualized in order to 'see' something in the words that isn't there. People cease to just read His Book as simple revelation of truth.

Rev 2:25But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star.


He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

What the Spirit says is simple in plain language. When the Lord comes again to earth, them that are faithful to the end, will have His power with a rod of iron over all nations.

Spiritualizing the promise into some sort of unseen coming of the Lord, with certain believers already secretly reigning with Him, is the error making sure prophecy into spirit-only fantasy in the air. It makes a mockery of the Lord's sure prophecy of the Lord's coming reign upon the earth:

2Pe 1:16For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

The sure promise of prophecy here, is that even as the apostles were eyewitnesses of the Lord's majesty on the mount, so shall all the earth be eyewitnesses of His coming majesty over the earth.

John was made a sure eyewitness of future things to come upon the earth before, during, and after the Lord's coming. He was not a hearer of more fantastic confusing tales spun by an angel in the air.

Gal 1:8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

And God uses this number in that way in scripture. We can see in the Psalms where the Lord God uses it to signify the fullness of hills:

When Scripture teaches allegory, we know it.

Psa 90:4For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

2Pe 3:8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
When Scripture reveals certain truth, we know it.

Rev 20:5Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Rom 11:4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Not as a thousand years, nor as seven thousand men.

Isaiah 7:23

• "And it shall come to pass in THAT DAY, that every place shall be, where there were a thousand vines at a thousand silverlings, it shall even be for briers and thorns. With arrows and with bows shall men come hither; because All the land shall become briers and thorns."

The day of the Lord's government upon the earth, shall be for a thousand years.

In light of this scripture, how can anyone say a thousand is always understood literally?

In light of this teaching, that a certain thousand years expires and is not symbolic, how can anyone say it teaches Scripture is never symbolic?

Whatever literal amount of time it may actually be is not for us to know.

Only for them that don't want to know, in order to prophecy something else they like better.

1 Cor{14:33} For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

 

[Ghada]

Yes…this is what I have come to believe. Since being born from above, I believe I am a co-worker with Him even now and into the eternal.

Yes. Unconditionally secured eternal salvation lurks behind much doctrine and prophecy made by believers in their own faith alone.

It's the personal agenda leavening much of what they believe and teach.

 

[Ghada]

Without is without

Mat 13:34All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:...But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

To nondisciples only. Jesus doesn't waste time teaching sure things to people, that will only write it off as a parable anyway.

Mat 7:6Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

The whole period of there were kings in Israel is presented as a parable until the time of the first century reformation .

1Co 10:11Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Using sure events to teach true lessons, does not disanull the sure events. There were kings in Israel, and there is torment in hell.

 

[Ghada]

1. Your pure ignorance of the scriptures,

I have stated a doctrine of resurrection from the dead, that I hold to by Scriptures given. You are the one taking it personal, and introducing personal insult.

One warning only. (There is no pure ignorance, only ignorance)

Being born again, is a spiritual resurrection taught by Jesus Christ himself,

It is spiritual rebirth of the soul and spirit in this life. Not a Scriptural resurrection from the dead, which is always bodily. Nowhere does any Scripture speak of our spiritual newbirth in Christ Jesus, as a resurrection of the dead.

Heb 6:1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

The only doctrine of Christ pertaining to a resurrection, is of the dead body, not a 'resurrection' of the soul from the dead.

1 Peter{1:3} Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Phl 3:10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

We can know the power of His Spirit by Jesus' resurrection from the dead, but no man has any resurrection of the dead in this life.

That blessed resurrection in the likeness of Jesus' own resurrection, is only attained to by His faithful servants and saints at the end of this life.

John 5:21~ For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.​

When the Father raises them up from the dead, even as He raised up His Son from the dead. The Father has not yet raised up any other man than Jesus Christ from the dead.

Luke{20:35} But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: {20:36} Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Here we should see all three resurrections – temporal, spiritual, and eternal.

The only resurrection spoken by name in Scripture is eternal with immortal bodies. Whether unto everlasting life with God and the Lamb, or unto everlasting shame and contempt apart from God and the Lamb.

John 5:24~ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.​

2Co 4:7But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

The soul having His life in mortal bodies, is not yet having immortal bodies by resurrection from the dead. The soul is raised from the death of sins and trespasses in this life, and the body is resurrected from the dead in graves.

The murderous haters before Him had rejected Him, His word, and His Father.

Although all at the cross are unbelievers in Jesus' Sonship, including His own family and disciples, they are not all murderous haters.

A man believing the gospel possesses eternal life as his property and his right.

The inheritance of everlasting life is not obtained until resurrection from the dead.

1 Thess{3:23} And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; {3:24} Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. {3:25} But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

Luke{20:35} But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: {20:36} Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Jesus now had the authority as the Son of God to resurrect men in regeneration.

And hasn't yet exercised His authority. He also has all power to inherit and rule over all men and nations upon the earth. He hasn't yet exercised that authroity.

He will exercise both as written and prophesied, when He comes again with power and great glory seen by all inhabitors on earth.

When the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God.

1 Th 4:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

His shout, the archangel's voice, and the trump of God at His return to appear in the air over all the earth.

We do not confuse this quickening by His voice with the general resurrection. The general resurrection is rather clearly distinguished by the words of v. 28.

True. The first resurrection of His righteous saints at His return, will be at least a thousand hears before the next resurrection of all the rest of the dead, both the wicked dead of all history, and the just during His millennium on earth.

There is a quickening from death to life to be identified here (Eph 2:1-3).

True. Of the soul and spirit in earthen vessles. The resurrection of the body is not until He comes again to earth, which will be for all the dead in Christ. The faithful saints alive in Christ and remaining on earth, will be immediately changed from mortal bodies to immortal.

This is the first resurrection to save some from the second death (Rev 20:6).

And this is the root and the cause for all the other teaching: a false hope of unconditionally secured eternal salvation by faith alone, without judgment nor justification of works.

All who have experienced this resurrection, the second death has no power over, which proves it is a spiritual resurrection, for it would be no need to add that saying if it were not.

Once again, it's all about not being judged by works, but only justified by what one believes alone. Otherwise, there would be no need for changing amounts of time and meanings of resurrection.

All who have experienced this rebirth of the Spirit, sin ought have no power over, which proves the spiritual rebirth in this life is only as true as the life lived, whether good or evil.

When Jesus raised Lazarus, His call was effectual with power to give life.

Scripture shows many dead bodies have been raised to life again on earth, to live again naturally on earth until the one death with judgment.

Then shall be resurrection of the dead unto everlasting life or shame, by judgment of works in this life.

 

[Ghada]

1. According to Jesus' teachings there was a resurrection that was present in his days

He said He was the resurrection, not there was resurrections from the dead. He was not yet resurrected from the dead.

(and even before)~we know this by the phrase: "now is"..so are you going to disagree with what Christ taught during his days upon the earth?

Now is when men hear His voice by His resurrection, and repent unto salvation and life.

Now is not when men hear and are resurrected from the dead.

Jesus was not resurrected from the dead, until 3 days after dying on the cross.

And no man was born again until His resurrection from the dead, much less resurrected from the dead before His death.

1 Peter{1:3} Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

By Scripture, your own doctrine of making spiritual rebirth a resurrection can't even be preached, until the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

2. "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

Surely shall. Just not now.

Without question the resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked takes place together and that on the last day,

True. A thousand years after the first judgment and resurrection of His saints and righteous wheat, that are harvested at His coming again, then shall be the resurrection of the rest of the dead judged by works unto everlasting life or shame.

All the wicked dead of history, including the unrighteous tares naming His name, will be resurrected unto shame. Only the just during His millennium shall be resurrected and found written in the Lamb's book of life.

The first reurrection of the saints, is not only the first of all men resurrected to judgment, but also it is the first resurrection of His saints, that will follow during His reign.

During the thousand years of Jesus Christ with His resurrected saints on earth, there will be a harvest unto the Lord Jesus Christ greater than all the thousands of years going before His second coming.

Isa 2:2And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Zec 8:23Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

“Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

The first resurrection of the saints, will be at the last day ruled by unrighteous man on earth, when He comes to rule over all nations.

Then then will be the resurrection of the rest of the dead at the last day of the heaven and earth, that is fleeing from His face in Heaven.

Jesus prophesies His coming again at the end of His age. 2 Peter prophecies the end of this world.

The resurrection of the saints shall takes place at the last trump!

1 Th 4:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Mat 24:31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The only voice of triumph and trumpet of God is at His coming again to resurrect, gather, and recieve His good saints into the air.

There is no voice nor trump nor shout of triumph recorded when the heaven and earth flee from the Lord's face, and the rest of the dead are resurrected unto judgment.

Not even a great wooshing sound.

 

[Red Baker]

I have stated a doctrine of resurrection from the dead, that I hold to by Scriptures given. You are the one taking it personal, and introducing personal insult.

One warning only. (There is no pure ignorance, only ignorance)

Let me make this very clear~I was not speaking about our conversation, since we have had no none, but the way you speak to others, not me.

Btw, somethings are purer than others things of the same content~ this is true of men holding to certain positions, when the scriptures clearly speaks against them and they continue to preach/teach them, in spite of what God's word teaches.

I will begin to answer you post maybe today if time allows me to do so, if not, tomorrow. I'm looking forward doing this....... you made my work easy with your twisted and corrupt understanding of the truth as I will prove so later~maybe not to you, but for the benefit of others reading.

 

[Red Baker]

He said He was the resurrection, not there was resurrections from the dead. He was not yet resurrected from the dead.



Now is when men hear His voice by His resurrection, and repent unto salvation and life.

Now is not when men hear and are resurrected from the dead.

Jesus was not resurrected from the dead, until 3 days after dying on the cross.

And no man was born again until His resurrection from the dead, much less resurrected from the dead before His death.

1 Peter{1:3} Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

By Scripture, your own doctrine of making spiritual rebirth a resurrection can't even be preached, until the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.




Surely shall. Just not now.


True. A thousand years after the first judgment and resurrection of His saints and righteous wheat, that are harvested at His coming again, then shall be the resurrection of the rest of the dead judged by works unto everlasting life or shame.

All the wicked dead of history, including the unrighteous tares naming His name, will be resurrected unto shame. Only the just during His millennium shall be resurrected and found written in the Lamb's book of life.

The first reurrection of the saints, is not only the first of all men resurrected to judgment, but also it is the first resurrection of His saints, that will follow during His reign.

During the thousand years of Jesus Christ with His resurrected saints on earth, there will be a harvest unto the Lord Jesus Christ greater than all the thousands of years going before His second coming.

Isa 2:2And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Zec 8:23Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

The first resurrection of the saints, will be at the last day ruled by unrighteous man on earth, when He comes to rule over all nations.

Then then will be the resurrection of the rest of the dead at the last day of the heaven and earth, that is fleeing from His face in Heaven.

Jesus prophesies His coming again at the end of His age. 2 Peter prophecies the end of this world.


1 Th 4:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Mat 24:31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The only voice of triumph and trumpet of God is at His coming again to resurrect, gather, and recieve His good saints into the air.

There is no voice nor trump nor shout of triumph recorded when the heaven and earth flee from the Lord's face, and the rest of the dead are resurrected unto judgment.

Not even a great wooshing sound.

Never seen just a disrespect for the scriptures as you put on display with your last two posts to me! I'm reminded of what Peter wrote after reading what you have posted:

2 Peter 3:16​

“As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.”

Later....

 

[Ghada]

Christ's parables, spiritual eternal. . unseen hid from them that seek after signs to wonder after .

He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

1 Cor 6:9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God... of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Rev 14:12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 2:25But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star.

Rev 20:6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Nothing parbolic nor mysterious not unseen things spoken by the Spirit to us, just plain talk of command, warning, and promise.

I would offer from my experience with parables, the figurative or signified hermeneutics.

Over mastery in some things, leads to underdone in the important things.

Hosea{7:8} Ephraim, he hath mixed himself among the people; Ephraim is a cake not turned.

Rev{3:15} I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. {3:16} So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

 

[Ghada]

I will begin to answer you post maybe today if time allows me to do so, if not, tomorrow. I'm looking forward doing this....... you made my work easy with your twisted and corrupt understanding of the truth as I will prove so later~maybe not to you, but for the benefit of others reading.

Unfortunately you do not know how to debate doctrine, without personal charges to those that disagree with a teaching. I warned you.

 

[Ghada]

Never seen just a disrespect for the scriptures as you put on display with your last two posts to me! I'm reminded of what Peter wrote after reading what you have posted:

​

When you learn how to show a teaching differs with Scripture, then you will learn how to do so without making things personally insulting.

Our differences of doctrine must be with disciplined arguments from the Bible, not with degrading personal arguments.

 

[Mr GLee]

He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

1 Cor 6:9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God... of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Rev 14:12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 2:25But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star.

Rev 20:6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Nothing parbolic nor mysterious not unseen things spoken by the Spirit to us, just plain talk of command, warning, and promise.


Over mastery in some things, leads to underdone in the important things.

Hosea{7:8} Ephraim, he hath mixed himself among the people; Ephraim is a cake not turned.

Rev{3:15} I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. {3:16} So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

That does not prove Christ wrong .he said without parables he spoke not

The bible says without parable Christ the husband spoke not to all revealing the meaning to his children .

Why reveal it to one and not the other ??? What do you think?

 

[Mr GLee]

Over mastery in some things, leads to underdone in the important things.

Hi Thanks. .

Important things?

Mastery making the spiritual understanding hid in parables as if it was the literal understanding ?

Parable = comparing one thing to another,

What do biblical parables use to compare one thing to another?