Understanding the Prophecy of 70 Weeks

[Carbon]

I can prove you are wrong. That's just the way it is. And you show you don't have the courage to challenge your opinions.

Friend, keep one thing in mind. The last thing I'm worried about is you proving me wrong, I am not afraid of being wrong. As a matter of fact, if I realize I am wrong, I learned something.

 

[Carbon]

@eclipseEventSigns is there anything in particular you would like to discuss? I enjoy Dan 9:24-27 and would be interested in hearing your understanding of it.

 

[Carbon]

If you're interested, I would be interested in your analysis of Daniel 9:24 for now.

“Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

If you're interested, I would be interested in your analysis of Daniel 9:24 for now.

“Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

Watch the video. I don't have to respond to your demands when you have stated you have no interest in a meaningful and informed discussion.

 

[Carbon]

Watch the video. I don't have to respond to your demands when you have stated you have no interest in a meaningful and informed discussion.

Never said I wasn't interested in a meaningful discussion.

 

[Carbon]

@eclipseEventSigns
One evening when I have a little more time, I'll watch the video.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Again, the challenge stands. For over 20 years I've asked if anyone can disprove any single thing about any of my research. No one has. And no one can. Thousands of people have watched my videos and read my book. Many churches are using my material to present the correct interpretation and understanding of the 70 Weeks prophecy. Daniel himself wrote that his material would not be understood properly until the "time of the end". So anyone who has claimed they know what it means in any previous era is simply wrong. They could not and do not understand it correctly. Until this generation.

 

[Carbon]

Again, the challenge stands. For over 20 years I've asked if anyone can disprove any single thing about any of my research. No one has. And no one can. Thousands of people have watched my videos and read my book. Many churches are using my material to present the correct interpretation and understanding of the 70 Weeks prophecy. Daniel himself wrote that his material would not be understood properly until the "time of the end". So anyone who has claimed they know what it means in any previous era is simply wrong. They could not and do not understand it correctly. Until this generation.

Of course, it wouldn't be understood until after Christ. He is the fulfillment.

 

[TMSO]

Do some research of exactly what Julian dates are. Then come back to the adult table.

Speaking from the adult table:

I watched what was said about Julian dates, and found this for a Julian date converter hosted by the US Naval Observatory Astronomical Applications Department:
"Julian dates (abbreviated JD) are simply a continuous count of days and fractions since noon Universal Time on January 1, 4713 BC (on the Julian calendar)."

Of days and dates they say:
"Calendar dates — year, month, and day — are more problematic. Various calendar systems have been in use at different times and places around the world. This application deals with only two: the Gregorian calendar, now used universally for civil purposes, and the Julian calendar, its predecessor in the western world. As used here, the two calendars have identical month names and number of days in each month, and differ only in the rule for leap years. The Julian calendar has a leap year every fourth year, while the Gregorian calendar has a leap year every fourth year except century years not exactly divisible by 400."

So everything I have been saying.

 

[TMSO]

Watch the video. I don't have to respond to your demands when you have stated you have no interest in a meaningful and informed discussion.

I also forgot to mention, I am not dealing with the other parts of the video, because that would take a whole lot of research that I have not done yet. The only point I am making is that the calculations made are correct. It does cover 14 March 445BC - 6 April 32AD. There is still the other person who made his own changes pushing it forward a year. I have not checked into that one yet. The point is, the calculations work out as advertised. Now, whether they are correct with the year and/or date, that is another story. However, that wasn't even worth approaching, when your video came right out and said their calculations were wrong, and provided false information. The point I was making was to correct that false information.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Speaking from the adult table:

I watched what was said about Julian dates, and found this for a Julian date converter hosted by the US Naval Observatory Astronomical Applications Department:
"Julian dates (abbreviated JD) are simply a continuous count of days and fractions since noon Universal Time on January 1, 4713 BC (on the Julian calendar)."

Of days and dates they say:
"Calendar dates — year, month, and day — are more problematic. Various calendar systems have been in use at different times and places around the world. This application deals with only two: the Gregorian calendar, now used universally for civil purposes, and the Julian calendar, its predecessor in the western world. As used here, the two calendars have identical month names and number of days in each month, and differ only in the rule for leap years. The Julian calendar has a leap year every fourth year, while the Gregorian calendar has a leap year every fourth year except century years not exactly divisible by 400."

So everything I have been saying.

no you didnt. you still have no clue what julian dates are

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

I also forgot to mention, I am not dealing with the other parts of the video, because that would take a whole lot of research that I have not done yet. The only point I am making is that the calculations made are correct. It does cover 14 March 445BC - 6 April 32AD. There is still the other person who made his own changes pushing it forward a year. I have not checked into that one yet. The point is, the calculations work out as advertised. Now, whether they are correct with the year and/or date, that is another story. However, that wasn't even worth approaching, when your video came right out and said their calculations were wrong, and provided false information. The point I was making was to correct that false information.

prove where it is false. it isnt. you cant do it

 

[TMSO]

prove where it is false. it isnt. you cant do it

I already did. And again, I was talking about the Julian dates. It IS, according to government agency, based on the Julian calendar. So you have to convert it to the rules of the Gregorian calendar to get a proper Gregorian date. The calculations are rock sold. I will say again, I am not saying the conclusion is correct, but the calculations are solid. If you are afraid of the calculations and the conclusion being right, you need to find someone who is saying the conclusion is right.

If you run the Julian dates by Gregorian rules, you actually do get 6 April 32 AD. The video clearly states that Julian dates are calendar agnostic, when it is not. They are run by the rules of the Julian calendar. The Gregorian calendar is closest to the Julian calendar when considering all the other calendars that have existed. The difference between the Gregorian calendar and Julian calendar for the dates given is three days. When you do the math, you get 6 April 32 AD.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

I already did. And again, I was talking about the Julian dates. It IS, according to government agency, based on the Julian calendar. So you have to convert it to the rules of the Gregorian calendar to get a proper Gregorian date. The calculations are rock sold. I will say again, I am not saying the conclusion is correct, but the calculations are solid. If you are afraid of the calculations and the conclusion being right, you need to find someone who is saying the conclusion is right.

If you run the Julian dates by Gregorian rules, you actually do get 6 April 32 AD. The video clearly states that Julian dates are calendar agnostic, when it is not. They are run by the rules of the Julian calendar. The Gregorian calendar is closest to the Julian calendar when considering all the other calendars that have existed. The difference between the Gregorian calendar and Julian calendar for the dates given is three days. When you do the math, you get 6 April 32 AD.

You are talking complete nonsense. Stop it. You are embarassing yourself. The math does not lie. You can put the numbers in any julian date converter and you (and Anderson and Hoehner) will be proven totally wrong.

 

[TMSO]

You are talking complete nonsense. Stop it. You are embarassing yourself. The math does not lie. You can put the numbers in any julian date converter and you (and Anderson and Hoehner) will be proven totally wrong.

Here I paste for you the information from the government naval observatory julian-gregorian converter website. They clearly state that the converter follows the Julian calendar prior and including 4 October 1582 AD. I could cut and paste where you say it does not if you wish. The Julian Calendar and the Gregorian calendars are so out of line that the days went thus, 4 October 1582 sunset, 15 October 1582 sunrise. What does this mean? If they didn't keep the Julian dates in line, then there would have been 10 days on the Julian calendar that did not exist on the Gregorian calendar. Instead, they just made the next julian day come up as 15 October 1582 in conversion. Before computer programs, you would have to remember that the calendar changed like that.

Calendar dates — year, month, and day — are more problematic. Various calendar systems have been in use at different times and places around the world. This application deals with only two: the Gregorian calendar, now used universally for civil purposes, and the Julian calendar, its predecessor in the western world. As used here, the two calendars have identical month names and number of days in each month, and differ only in the rule for leap years. The Julian calendar has a leap year every fourth year, while the Gregorian calendar has a leap year every fourth year except century years not exactly divisible by 400.

This application assumes that the changeover from the Julian calendar to the Gregorian calendar occurred in October of 1582, according to the scheme instituted by Pope Gregory XIII. Specifically, for dates on or before 4 October 1582, the Julian calendar is used; for dates on or after 15 October 1582, the Gregorian calendar is used. Thus, there is a ten-day gap in calendar dates, but no discontinuity in Julian dates or days of the week: 4 October 1582 (Julian) is a Thursday, which begins at JD 2299159.5; and 15 October 1582 (Gregorian) is a Friday, which begins at JD 2299160.5. The omission of ten days of calendar dates was necessitated by the astronomical error built up by the Julian calendar over its many centuries of use, due to its too-frequent leap years."(website is aa.usno.navy.mil/data/JulianDate)

I reran my spreadsheet using both Gregorian dates, Gregorian rules, and the Julian dates, When I checked the date for 31 DEC it gave 1 JAN, but probably because I ran it from the beginning of the day. By the time we get to 31 AD, instead of showing 1 January, it shows 29 December. A change of three days.

Due to this, to bring it to the Gregorian date of 31 DEC, one has to add 2 Gregorian calendar days. If one continues that to the next year, the Gregorian date of 4 April given by Gregorian dates changes to 6 April. For the Julian, since Dec 31 reads as 1 January, you have to subtract 3 to bring 1 January to 29 December. That brings the 173883 days back down to 173880 days.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Here I paste for you the information from the government naval observatory julian-gregorian converter website. They clearly state that the converter follows the Julian calendar prior and including 4 October 1582 AD. I could cut and paste where you say it does not if you wish. The Julian Calendar and the Gregorian calendars are so out of line that the days went thus, 4 October 1582 sunset, 15 October 1582 sunrise. What does this mean? If they didn't keep the Julian dates in line, then there would have been 10 days on the Julian calendar that did not exist on the Gregorian calendar. Instead, they just made the next julian day come up as 15 October 1582 in conversion. Before computer programs, you would have to remember that the calendar changed like that.

Calendar dates — year, month, and day — are more problematic. Various calendar systems have been in use at different times and places around the world. This application deals with only two: the Gregorian calendar, now used universally for civil purposes, and the Julian calendar, its predecessor in the western world. As used here, the two calendars have identical month names and number of days in each month, and differ only in the rule for leap years. The Julian calendar has a leap year every fourth year, while the Gregorian calendar has a leap year every fourth year except century years not exactly divisible by 400.

This application assumes that the changeover from the Julian calendar to the Gregorian calendar occurred in October of 1582, according to the scheme instituted by Pope Gregory XIII. Specifically, for dates on or before 4 October 1582, the Julian calendar is used; for dates on or after 15 October 1582, the Gregorian calendar is used. Thus, there is a ten-day gap in calendar dates, but no discontinuity in Julian dates or days of the week: 4 October 1582 (Julian) is a Thursday, which begins at JD 2299159.5; and 15 October 1582 (Gregorian) is a Friday, which begins at JD 2299160.5. The omission of ten days of calendar dates was necessitated by the astronomical error built up by the Julian calendar over its many centuries of use, due to its too-frequent leap years."(website is aa.usno.navy.mil/data/JulianDate)

I reran my spreadsheet using both Gregorian dates, Gregorian rules, and the Julian dates, When I checked the date for 31 DEC it gave 1 JAN, but probably because I ran it from the beginning of the day. By the time we get to 31 AD, instead of showing 1 January, it shows 29 December. A change of three days.

Due to this, to bring it to the Gregorian date of 31 DEC, one has to add 2 Gregorian calendar days. If one continues that to the next year, the Gregorian date of 4 April given by Gregorian dates changes to 6 April. For the Julian, since Dec 31 reads as 1 January, you have to subtract 3 to bring 1 January to 29 December. That brings the 173883 days back down to 173880 days.

Again you are totally talking in circles of things that are not even relevant. You did not prove anything by "quoting". You don't even understand what the issue is.

 

[TMSO]

Again you are totally talking in circles of things that are not even relevant. You did not prove anything by "quoting". You don't even understand what the issue is.

What you said previously: "LOL. Your math is so totally incorrect. I didn't use what you claim I used. I used the Julian dates. Not Julian calendar. Learn the difference before spewing nonsense."

The issue that you are having is that the whole calculation/math is based on the Gregorian calendar system. The math is not going to work in Julian dates/Julian calendar system without work. It most certainly isn't going to line up the Julian dates properly with the Gregorian calendar. If they used the Gregorian calendar and rules for the Julian dates for that far back, everything would line up just fine, and you wouldn't have an argument.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

What you said previously: "LOL. Your math is so totally incorrect. I didn't use what you claim I used. I used the Julian dates. Not Julian calendar. Learn the difference before spewing nonsense."

The issue that you are having is that the whole calculation/math is based on the Gregorian calendar system. The math is not going to work in Julian dates/Julian calendar system without work. It most certainly isn't going to line up the Julian dates properly with the Gregorian calendar. If they used the Gregorian calendar and rules for the Julian dates for that far back, everything would line up just fine, and you wouldn't have an argument.

Again you talk out of ignorance. Have you actually studied the works of Anderson and Hoehner? They go into great detail on their conversions between the Julian calendar and Gregorian calendar. That is why it is so ESSENTIAL to use Julian dates - completely different from the calendar systems. It's the ONLY way to compare and do calendar math that is accurate. The ONLY way. Until you understand that - what I thought is a very simple concept - you just can't understand how Anderson's and Hoehner's system is absolutely and utterly wrong. And it's the only way that what I have discovered IS the actual and correct way to interpret the prophecy of 70 Weeks.

And many hundreds of people now agree with me. Once they understood the underlying concepts, it's very easy to see.

 

[TMSO]

Again you talk out of ignorance. Have you actually studied the works of Anderson and Hoehner? They go into great detail on their conversions between the Julian calendar and Gregorian calendar. That is why it is so ESSENTIAL to use Julian dates - completely different from the calendar systems. It's the ONLY way to compare and do calendar math that is accurate. The ONLY way. Until you understand that - what I thought is a very simple concept - you just can't understand how Anderson's and Hoehner's system is absolutely and utterly wrong. And it's the only way that what I have discovered IS the actual and correct way to interpret the prophecy of 70 Weeks.

And many hundreds of people now agree with me. Once they understood the underlying concepts, it's very easy to see.

I looked at it again, and the numbering system of Julian days is not as I knew it. The Julian day starts at noon. If it isn't noon, then the day is a decimal day. That throws off my calculations, and the final results I had, which match yours. I made changes to those bring it in line with the Gregorian and based my arguments off of. Now I find that the original calculations are off when trying to line up a day that starts at noon, with a day that starts at midnight. The day (Monday, Tuesday, etc still changes at midnight, but the day count doesn't change until noon).

 

[EarlyActs]

We read Daniel 9 starting in verse 22...
22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The Prophecy of Seventy Weeks in Daniel chapter 9, is the 490 years of uninterrupted period starting from "the time the word goes out to rebuild and restore Jerusalem," of Daniel 9:25 and ending 3½ years after Jesus' death. The starting point identified with a decree by Artaxerxes I in 458/7 BC to provide money to rebuild Jerusalem and its temple.

Now there where two earlier decrees by Cyrus and Darius’. So why don't these two decrees qualify to start the prophecy of Daniel 9:25? Well lets take a look at these two decrees. The first is the decree of Cyrus, given in his first year (537/536 B.C.) which is recorded in Ezra 1:1-4. An undated decree of Darius (520/519 B.C.) which is found in Ezra 6:1-12 merely reconfirms the decree of Cyrus. however, the first two decrees are about the temple, and its reconstruction, whereas the statement in Daniel 9:25 is concerned with the decree that resulted in the rebuilding of the city of Jerusalem.

The first two decrees can be omitted from consideration, because they deal only with the building of the temple, and not the rebuilding of the city and restoration, "that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." So we can see that the third decree of Artaxerxes is the one that started the prophecy of Daniel 9 and was implemented in September/October 457 B.C.

The appearance of "Messiah the Prince" at the end of the 69 weeks (483 years) is aligned with Jesus' baptism in 27 CE. The 'cutting off' of the "anointed one" is applied to the Jesus' execution 3½ years after the end of the 483 years, bringing "atonement for iniquity" and "everlasting righteousness". Jesus' death is said to 'confirm' the "covenant" between God and mankind by in 31 CE "in the midst of" the last seven years. The end of the 70th week is associated with 34 AD when the gospel was redirected from only the Jews to all peoples

Christian historicism, which is what unveils these verses from scripture, interprets prophecy as an overview of the history of the Christian church, asserting connections between historical events and statements in the Bible, and distinguishing between prophecies considered already fulfilled and those still to come. The Jews of biblical times, had taught this view in the many prophecies to be fulfilled, which were pointing to the Messiah such as those by the prophets Isaiah and Ezekiel. The early church and the precursors to the Reformation used it, Jerome in his 'Commentary on Daniel' went into the kingdoms that Daniel predicted, and we find it held by many of the Protestant Reformers and in their teachings.

But the last 2 verses of Dan 9 describe the destruction at the end of the generation very well. This has always made me think the last week or half week was that generation.