The Trinity

[Bornfield]

- In other words, at this time, he did not possess the glory… WHICH HE HAD BEFORE THE WORLD WAS CREATED

but - here is the original message of the Greek manuscript.


:5 και And - νυν now - δοξασο glorify - με me - συ you - πατερ father - παρα from - σεαυτω yourself, - τη the - δοξη glory - η that - ειχον I had - προ before -

του unto - τον the - κοσμο world - ειναι that is - παρα from - σοι you.


Meaning - from the opposing manuscripts

5 AND NOW GLORIFY ME YOU FATHER FROM YOURSELF, THE GLORY THAT I HAD BEFORE,
UNTO THE WORLD THAT IS FROM YOU.


The manuscripts say absolutely nothing about a Jesus whom - LOST ALL OF HIS GLORY - IMMEDIATELY after the world was created,

The Trinitarian Jesus is invented in the Translation by inserting modification, changing, alteration into the message to present a narrative that Jesus is a second CO PERSON whom is eternal CO PERSON - CO - SPIRIT - whom is moving, progressing, modifying - up and down - back and forth and adapting and morphing through stages of power and glory - his equality, his existence , his person -

his “ TRINITARIAN REPUTATION “ AND GLORY AND POSITION WITH GOD - is progressing changing, his status of rank - moves up and down forward and backwards constantly and continually loosing and regaining his glory -

and the Trinity denies the Power of glory eternally ?

the Trinitarian Translation in Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.

according to the Trinitarian Translation - Jesus had Glory with the father BEFORE THE WORLD WAS CREATED - and after the creation he lost all of his glory

- why was it important TO INVENT THE IDEA - that the glory that Jesus had, with the father was - ONLY WITH JESUS, BEFORE THAT THE WORLD WAS CREATED. - - - and after the creation he lost this glory ?

The Trinitarian translation says - Joh 17:5 . . . . .. . Jesus is asking the Father to glorify him now with - the GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS. - - In other words at this time, he did not possess the glory… … … .

- immediately, - just after the EARTH was created - he lost his Glory with the Father - only to regain the glory again, after he had been resurrected.

How then, is he Co – Eternal Son - or as Co - Equal Son - or as Co - Omnipresent Son ?

 

[Bornfield]

to your 4 important questions

I am not affirmed
I am not a Modalist nor something similar
I do not believe in a trinitarian Jesus - as - trinitarian Godhead - Godhead i cannot find in the manuscripts
I do not believe in a Trinitarian Holy Spirit as a trinitarian God

I do
believe that the manuscripts affirm who Jesus is
believe that the manuscripts speak for themselves
believe that the manuscripts declare that Jesus is God himself manifested in flesh
believe that the the manuscripts declare that the Spirit of God is the very selfsame spirit of Jesus the anointing / Christ

one spirit , one Lord, one Faith-

Col 2:9
:9 For in him { Jesus } dwelled all the fulfillment of the divinity bodily.

The scriptures explain the benefit produced - to make a man literally God himself on earth, this man was the Spirit of the Father manifested in the flesh, this man was a physical manifestation of God’s invisible spirit which was the fulfillment,

fulfillment - meaning = the completion, accomplishment, performance, achievement, - of God’s divinity to mankind
This Greek word Divinity / Divine

“ divinity “ has a meaning that is much more than to just simply posses an attribute of deification, worship veneration, glorification, exaltation, and worship.

But the word “ DIVINITY “ applied to the God of the Bible indicates his Omniscience, all knowing - and power of divinization, knowledge of the future discerning, forecasting, foretelling, perceiving and prophesy as fore - knowledge

God is a spirit, invisible and unseen and cannot be seen, therefore this is explained further in Rom 1:20

:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and divinity ; - so that they are without excuse:


So….. Jesus Christ was made so that mankind can clearly see and understand - the Spirit’s eternal power and divinity
Heb 1: 1 – 2 explains

:1 Many ways, also various ways, long ago the God spoke to their fathers

:2 in their prophets unto these last of days, of these, he spoke to them in his son upon whom is given heir, of whom also this is forever done

:3 Who being the emanation / radiating of his glory, and the express image of his confidence , and upholding all things by the word of his power,


Jesus is the glory and confidence that has emanated / flowed out, issued out, or proceeded out , come forth from the spirit of God

and the purpose of Jesus was to - by himself, purged our sins and sat down in the right of the Majesty in high; -

his son is given heir to the throne of God because the son literally has emanated / flowed out, issued out, or proceeded out , come forth ( OUT OF ) from the spirit of God

:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.


Jesus is the called literally - THE ANOINTING - THE CHRIST - he is the literal anointing of the Spirit Holy Of God, - the spirit of the Father

The Greek word CHRIST means Anointing or Anointed - he was filled with the fullness and completely filled with all of the deity of the Holy Spirit Eternal physically - the Spirit of God was the very Spirit of Yahashua.

As Peter clearly says in 1Pe 1:10 “ CONCERNING THE SPIRIT OF GOD INSIDE THE OLD TESTAMENT PROPHETS “


:10 The prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: :11 Searching what, or what manner of time “ THE SPIRIT OF THE ANOINTING / CHRIST “ WHICH WAS IN THEM - did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of THE ANOINTING / CHRIST

:12 ... which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Spirit Holy sent down from heaven..

We see clearly that the very same Spirit of Jesus himself, was the very same Spirit that had been previously been sent to earth - as “ THE SPIRIT OF ANOINTING “ - – in / inside the prophets in the Old testament..

Jesus was made or produced to benefit mankind because he is the ANOINTING of the Holy Spirit -- BEING THE LITERAL ANOINTING OF GOD - MEANS - the installation, placement, application, positioning, stationing, appointment, applying of the Holy Spirit or Spirit Holy Of The God in our lives.

To apply to be the application

His Spirit is the invisible Spirit, Holy of the Father Creator in the manifestation, form of what is being applied, ANOINTED - placed, applied, positioned, stationed, appointed, working, rubbing, moving anointing - the idea of contact; to smear or rub with oil, to handle); to furnish what is needed; , to apply and to use.

This is the role of Jesus the Anointing that Gods Spirit has applied HIS SACRIFICE for our salvation and also for communication to Him - the eternal spirit

the blood of the father through the eternal spirit in the anointing Yahashua - God made flesh
in the offering he was commanded to offer, his Spirit returning to heaven to sit IN the right of God

 

[makesends]

but with the answer that I will soon will post to your reply and answers you will fully understand why,, beloved Trinitarians such yourself are truly incapable and unable to provide scriptures for to honestly answer these important questions

- which I have asked every Trinitarian whom I can possible contact.

@Bornfield your presentation is not conducive to constructive debate, (just saying), but mostly, at least for me, as Fred asks here:

Do you believe Jesus is God?
Do you believe the Holy Spirit is God?

And THERE might be the reason none (supposedly) care to answer you.

 

[Bornfield]

if i were an honest trinitarian looking for truth _ my only question would be

what do the manuscripts say

trinitarians have no manuscripts for their faith system - therefore they care not to answer from the trinitarian translation
and the manuscripts are prohibited in discussion

who cannot help and who will not allow

 

[Fred]

if i were an honest trinitarian looking for truth _ my only question would be

what do the manuscripts say

trinitarians have no manuscripts for their faith system - therefore they care not to answer from the trinitarian translation
and the manuscripts are prohibited in discussion

who cannot help and who will not allow

I would be much more likely to respond if your posts were not presented in such a ransom note like fashion and that the points would be directly made without going off on long-winded responses.

 

[Bornfield]

understood Fred,

yes, yes, may I ask you this ?

was it the introduction of the subject in - Joh 17:5 that seemed to be appear to you as a ransom note ?

:5 And now, Ohhh Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.

I do sincerely apologize. I am sorry for making the assertion and presumption that all Trinitarians believe that the glory Jesus had with the father BEFORE THE WORLD WAS CREATED - was meaning to Trinitarians, that all of this glory was taken away and removed from him immediately after the creation.

meaning that, at the moment the world came into existence Jesus had lost this glory - I admit that not all Trinitarians hold fast to this narrative but most of what Trinitarians believe about this passage is not something they can explain by rolling out and spreading open the scriptures and clearly finding answers and scriptures to explain the understanding of this passage in - Joh 17:5 - with trinity answers

I hope this was not a stumbling stone for you personally - I was hoping to address the Trinitarian perspective of the Trinitarian Faith System and was not wanting to make this personal, as if i was holding your favorite pet or your ideal fish tank for ransom

this was not personal - I was simply trying to hold a perspective mirror before the Trinitarian Translation - the reflection always causes the trinitarian to seek a route to shatter that mirror

however if you wish, I can make a personal note and say regardless, I hope you and your loved ones are doing well and that you have a warm and prosperous winter.

you are officially made free by me - to go back and read and answer the questions that I have presented to Trinitarians

enjoy your freedom

 

[Bornfield]

kind. forgiving, patient sir ?

 

[Fred]

understood Fred,

yes, yes, may I ask you this ?

was it the introduction of the subject in - Joh 17:5 that seemed to be appear to you as a ransom note ?

It's the various colors used, the enlarged letters, and the capitalization of words.

 

[Bornfield]

i knew from the very beginning that such clarity would help you to understand that there is scripturally no answer from a Trinitarian / Godheadian faith system

if you have an older 2nd new wife, mother or perhaps an assembly of mothers in laws or even distant loose mistresses that are pleased to be allow as one of these, to read my post _ - - you could be perhaps spurred onward ?

to attempt a direct answer ?

ill return your fish tank and favorite pet - it was never really intended as a ransom note - only the manuscripts would be what you forfeit

 

[Arial]

A question that has been on my mind about the Trinity doctrine


why is Yahashua changing / altering and modifying and adjusting / morphing and lowering and decreasing and reducing himself -

why is Yahashua becoming empty / void and vacant of existing as equally god and suddenly
suddenly changing himself to become a servant of god

why is Yahashua suddenly changed and altered to the point that he no longer exists to be equal to god.

but himself, he has suddenly became empty / changed altered become void of equality to god - changing into something different from that which he pre existed = - changing into becoming a servant

he is changed and lowered into - the morph of a servant, receiving in the likeness of mankind, he became.

if – Yahashua lowered himself - emptied himself - he changed and altered himself - becoming a servant of god, why - would he be lowering himself - why would he be altering and changing himself to be changed into a servant of god

and lesser than god – changing to becoming a servant and obedient to the father

IF THIS IS WHO AND WHAT TRINITARIANS CLAIM - JESUS ALREADY WAS ?

co - eternally _ co - equally

according to Trinitarian faith

please, explain in scriptures where Jesus the only born son of god emptied himself by coming down from heaven as the pre existing son of God who pre-existed as a paradox eternally and equally
why has Trinitarian son - suddenly became empty / changed altered become void of equality to god - changing into something different from that which he pre existed = - changing into becoming a servant of God

IF THIS IS WHO AND WHAT TRINITARIANS CLAIM - JESUS ALREADY WAS ?

meaning ?

How then, is he Co - Eternal Son or as Co - Equal Son or as Co - Omnipresent Son ?

if he goes up and down - progressing up and down and then up again, moving through stages of power and glory - equality and is changing his status of rank - loosing and regaining his glory - and does not have the power or ability or right to maintain his glory eternally ?

I see you have no understanding of who God is, who mankind is in relation to their Creator, and no clue at to what redemption, atonement, and justification are, even though it is what the entire Bible is about.

if – Yahashua lowered himself - emptied himself - he changed and altered himself - becoming a servant of god, why - would he be lowering himself - why would he be altering and changing himself to be changed into a servant of god

and lesser than god – changing to becoming a servant and obedient to the father

IF THIS IS WHO AND WHAT TRINITARIANS CLAIM - JESUS ALREADY WAS ?

That isn't what they claim. They claim He became this in the incarnation to redeem through perfect obedience and substitution in death, becoming like those He was to redeem. He did not lose His deity in the incarnation, the likeness of man was added to it, for the purpose of redemption. Instead of exercising the qualities of His deity as to omnipresence for example, He limited them, becoming like us.

 

[Arial]

that Yahashua 𝔞lready existing humble to father. - 𝔢ternal, humble, Co equal trinitarian God / son

No that is not what Trinitarianism teaches.

already existing himself the FORM / morph of a servant, and ALREADY existing as eternally MADE / CREATED in the likeness of men:

No that is not what it teaches. You are trying to refute the Trinity by using false arguments. It is a logical fallacy. You will never support your opinion by doing that.

 

[Arial]

.
In conclusion if I may please ask Trinitarians

𝔦𝔣 Trinitarian Jesus was already CO - ETERNAL ✣ CO - EQUAL ✣ why - why is he suddenly being GIVEN this equality with the father if this is something he already possesses and exists as

𝔦𝔣 Trinitarian Jesus was already humble to father ☞ submissive to father ☞ sitting on the right hand side of father. - 𝔢ternally, on the right of father

already ☞ second in command - Father commands 𝔰on

☞ 𝔞lready existed in the likeness of men: and already existed

✣ already existing himself the FORM / morph of a servant, and ALREADY existing as eternally MADE / CREATED in the likeness of men:

the eternal son / the man / God


why is Trinitarian Jesus being given something he eternally already has - - as CO - ETERNAL ✣ CO - EQUAL ✣

why is Trinitarian Jesus adapting, changing, morphing, forming, being made lower, humbled, submissive, obedient and CHANGING HIS ATTITUDE - changing his REPUTATION, STATUS, RANK - being suddenly made, fashioned SUDDENLY FINDING HIMSELF made as the form of a man - god - with human flesh.

, - - as CO - ETERNAL ✣ CO - EQUAL ✣

if Trinitarians claim that this is always what and who the Trinitarian Jesus had always existed as and had eternally possessed
God also hath highly EXALTED / him, and GIVEN him a name which is above every name:

but this is who and what Trinitarians claim Jesus already had been CO - ETERNALLY ✣ CO - EQUALLY ✣

and where did Jesus previously sit in heaven before he was promoted and moved in his seating order and seating arrangement - the father in moving and relocating Jesus ? ? ?

In the Trinity translation - Jesus was not ON the right hand of God before Jesus is being commanded to be re- positioned, re - located, moved from one position of status and rank of authority, he is being promoted - progressing and changing his seating order - moving up in rank ?

The Trinitarian Translation presents Jesus as being promoted, re - positioned, re - located and moving, changing the placement and status of his position from one existing position to be re located and placed and moved to another higher position, a higher status - rank / authority

- was Jesus not sitting ON the right hand of God before God re- located him there ? ! ↩​

these 3 simple trinitarian questions are questions that I have never been able to receive an answer from Trinitarians, based upon their translations / the scriptures themselves. This is somewhat why that I do not believe in the Trinity doctrine ↩

there are simply no manuscripts to explain simple answers nor these questions - the Trinitarian Faith System simply is not consistent nor honest - to believe something that is in complete contradiction and adverse unto itself. - like a circular reasoning that eternally encloses in upon itself in continual loop repeating the same step and then back again

is this not one step theology that turns in upon itself, lurching - spinning around back to its original position - never moving beyond a single step in reason and truth ?

You are asking them to answer questions of why they believe something that they don't believe.

 

[Bornfield]

.
I am not associated or connected with - The Divided States Of The American Government filth

i do completely know and sincerely find evidence and believe that that George Washington did indeed die and was buried -

he - - George Washington died from a symptom of contracting a syphilis disease / virus - due to his interaction of being offered opportunity for sexually pleasuring himself with Opium and and Heroin with multiple native American whores - mixed with multiple European whores -

while planning to the demise and destruction of unwanted true male patriots,

as George Washington worked to the collaborating with the French and British - for a new treaty and contract for the USA with France, Britany and it's sis - subsidiaries

F.B.I - agents of drug addiction and promotion of slavery and sexual abuse

 

[Bornfield]

this is how George died - from a syphilis disease

but as true Patriots - we do not cast blame upon him - - - George Washington was greatly outnumbered and he was truly a good man but overcome with many Europeans thrills and sways and did fight and lost his worthy cause - and was overcome to the world

George Washington was the first official drug addicted federal agent - transposed into a lost deputy agent - drug addict / hero suicidal Federal agent of propaganda / thievery

 

[Bornfield]

this is how George died - from a syphilis disease

but as true Patriots - we do not cast blame upon him - - - George Washington was greatly outnumbered and he was truly a good man but overcome with many Europeans thrills and sways and did fight and lost his worthy cause - and was overcome to the world

George Washington was the first official drug addicted federal agent - transposed into a lost deputy agent - drug addict / hero suicidal Federal agent of propaganda / thievery

the moment the colonialists dresses up and pretended to be Native Americans -- - families, children, Native American mothers
Native American peoples - the colonialists dresses up and disguised themselves as Native American Indian peoples

pretending to be Natives in costume - they committed butchery and disgrace upon the Native Americans
the tea party - F.B.i - transference to castigate transference upon Native Americans -- - families, children, Native American mothers - Native American peoples as terrorists

 

[Bornfield]

forget reading

call your mother to answer my questions -

 

[grace2]

How can anyone who claims to believe the Bible is Gods word not see the True God ?

Do you believe Jesus' word is God's word too?

 

[Arial]

Do you believe Jesus' word is God's word too?

Civic isn't here any longer. If a name has a line through it, they have been banned either temp or perm.

 

[donadams]

But, but, but....the word "Trinity" isn't used in the bible....so there is no trinity.

The word is not there but the doctrine is!

 

[donadams]

.
● John 1:14 . . The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

The Word's flesh didn't come into the world as a divine man, rather, as a Jewish
infant whose human origin can be easily traced to David, Abraham, Noah, and
ultimately Adam. So the big question is: How did the Word's flesh climb up from
a creature made of dust to a position of deity? Is such a thing even possible?
_

Jesus Christ is not a human person become God!

But a divine person became man!

True God & true man
Fully God & fully man