The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

[brightfame52]

When it reads Jn 12:32

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

This is a solid declaration that those who Christ is lifted up in behalf of, as a consequence they will be made believers and converted to Him ! Its a declaration of His Saving Death ! 9

 

[brightfame52]

Old test scripture testifying to the saving death of Christ, His Blood for them He died for, or shed it for. Christs blood shed was in regard to a covenant death Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Now lets look at OT Zech 9:11

As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

That this is speaking also about Christ we appeal to Vs 9

9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

Which corresponds to Christ here Jn 12:12-15

12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

Christs Covenant Blood brings Salvation with remission of sins ! 9

 

[Mr GLee]

Notice also that in Jn 11:50 that Christ dying equates to people not dying, [That the whole nation die not] this surely intimates that His death saves from death, meaning dying in ones sins. His death will prevent everyone in that nation from dying in their sins, which of course is the remnant according to the election of grace.

I would offer.

Its about all the nations if it about one dying flesh it is about all. I believe it is shown we can see that in the name change, propmised in Isiah The father renamed the bride previously calling her is Israel. Not all of Israel are born again believers . The Father renamed her "Christian" in Acts .A word as a demonym .People recognized by location . Christian literally mean "residents of the city of Christ prepared for his bride named after the founder of the city the husband Christ

A more befitting name to name the one bride of all the nation and families of the world A word that seems to lost any effectiveness as a i gospel tool .Many say it was inspired by the devil as a derogatory word rather than a born again word

We know Christ Eternal God as our Holy Father cannot die , Death must defined as asleep rest. We rest in him .He will give the wake up call like with Lazarus on the last day

Jesus who without parables, the signified understanding spoke not. The most misunderstood person that ever walked, because of His love of the Father. He wept at their unbelief (no faith) Not understanding what it means "he is asleep" .

A gospel picture of all believer waking up on the last day

John 11:34 And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see. Jesus wept. Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him! . . . . . ..God weeping at mankind's unbelief strengthened the Son of man outwardly weeping to finish that gospel work Using the things seen to show the unseen

The last day call,, , , ,Christians rise and shine, receive your new incorruptible body, the memory of the suffering past things under the Sun are gone .The gospel eternal rest

In that way weeping is used throughout the bible to represent Christ with us as Emanuel, In times where no help could be found .The Father Strengthens us in our weakness sharing the suffering making our burden yoked with lighter

Luke 7:38 And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.

Weeping being empowered she finished displaying kind of food or power the disciples knew not of at first Both to reveal his will and empower or strengthen one to finish it to the glory of the unseen head Eternal God. Our daily bread.

Weeping the gospel cry, preach Christ. not of our own selves.

 

[brightfame52]

Christs Death alone saved and redeemed them He died for, hear the testimony of the elders who sit around the Throne Rev 5:9

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10

 

[Mr GLee]

Christs Death alone saved and redeemed them He died for, hear the testimony of the elders who sit around the Throne Rev 5:9

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10

Christ as a living sacrifice saves the dead. He does not accept dead sacrifices. Christ cannot die. The Son of mam Jesus did . its appointed for al men to die once to include Jesus the Son of man

 

[brightfame52]

Christ as a living sacrifice saves the dead. He does not accept dead sacrifices. Christ cannot die. The Son of mam Jesus did . its appointed for al men to die once to include Jesus the Son of man

Do you agree with post 105 ? Do you understand it ?

 

[brightfame52]

The law has no claim upon those for whom Christ died. The curse spent itself on our Redeemer. We are dead to the law. We are righteous, justified, guiltless, innocent in Christ Those Christ died for are dead to the law Rom 7:4

 

[Eleanor]

The law has no claim upon those for whom Christ died. The curse spent itself on our Redeemer. We are dead to the law. We are righteous, justified, guiltless, innocent in Christ Those Christ died for are dead to the law Rom 7:4

We are dead to the curse of the law.

 

[brightfame52]

We are dead to the curse of the law.

That goes for anyone Christ died for.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ’s Death Actually Saves

If the Lord Jesus died for absolutely everybody, then why are not all actually saved? Romans 6 makes it clear that those who are united to Christ in His death are dead to sin (6-7) and “alive unto God” (11), and will be raised bodily to glory (5). But many spend all their days “dead in trespasses and sins” (Eph. 2:1) and will rise in the “resurrection of damnation” (John 5:29). We can only conclude that they were not united to Christ in His death (i.e., He did not die for them), for if the reprobate were united to the Son of God in His death (i.e., if He died for them), they would die to sin and live unto God (Rom. 14:9; II Cor. 5:14-15).

Scripture teaches that both faith (Eph. 2:8-9; Phil. 1:29) and repentance (Acts 5:31; 11:18; II Tim. 2:25) are gifts of God’s grace. Faith and repentance are instances of “spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ” (Eph. 1:3). God’s blessings in Christ come through the cross (Rom. 8:32; Gal. 3:13-14). But “all men have not faith” (II Thess. 3:2) nor do all repent (Rev. 16:11). Thus faith and repentance were not purchased for everybody head for head on the cross and so the Saviour did not die for all. https://cprc.co.uk/pamphlets2/forwhomdidchristdie/ 10

 

[Eleanor]

That goes for anyone Christ died for.

You are either alive in Christ through faith in him, or dead in trespasses and sins because of unbelief in him.

 

[brightfame52]

You are either alive in Christ through faith in him, or dead in trespasses and sins because of unbelief in him.

If Christ died for someone they will be made alive and given Faith, thats all part of His Saving Death

 

[Carbon]

If Christ died for someone they will be made alive and given Faith, thats all part of His Saving Death

Absolutly! There is no way this person would be anything but saved.

 

[Carbon]

Do you think John 12:32 means all men are drawn to Jesus salvifically?

Absolutly not.

 

[Carbon]

Or post on the plusses and minuses in that answer.

All people are drawn to Jesus, but they are not all drawn to him salvifically. Some are drawn in condemnation.

Again, your understanding of drawn in scripture is in error.

 

[Carbon]

When it reads Jn 12:32

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

This is a solid declaration that those who Christ is lifted up in behalf of, as a consequence they will be made believers and converted to Him ! Its a declaration of His Saving Death ! 9

And only the elect are drawn. When it says all, it simply means men from every tribe tongue, and nation.

Soldier on brother

 

[Josheb]

Absolutly not.

Me neither.

Again, your understanding of drawn in scripture is in error.

Again, that has yet to be proven, and the argument ad nauseam is fallacious. And.... the discussion is once again being made personally derisive after I received a report that would not happen. Either keep the posts about the posts and make the case for the "all" not to mean all without mentioning me, or don't expect further replies.

I am well aware Calvin thought John 12's "all" meant only the elect. I think Calvin was wrong. I think any Calvinists in this thread who agree with Calvin are wrong and I have explained how and why in the other thread (where a lot of disrespect ensued). The larger passage in John 12 is bookended by comments about eternal life but everything in between is about judgment and unbelief, not belief, is specified.


John 12:30-43 ESV
Jesus answered, “This voice has come for your sake, not mine. Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die. So the crowd answered him, “We have heard from the Law that the Christ remains forever. How can you say that the Son of Man must be lifted up? Who is this Son of Man?” So Jesus said to them, “The light is among you for a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you. The one who walks in the darkness does not know where he is going. While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.” Though he had done so many signs before them, they still did not believe in him, so that the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled: “Lord, who has believed what he heard from us, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said, “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.” Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him. Nevertheless, many even of the authorities believed in him, but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, so that they would not be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the glory that comes from man more than the glory that comes from God.


It is not salvation that is upon the earth, but judgment. Calvin took his views from Chrysostom (not scripture). Calvin emphasized the verse reporting some believed but he does so at the expense of those verses reporting unbelief AND the prophetic appeal to Isaiah, an appeal every single gospel writer recorded Jesus making. All those people came to hear Jesus preach but very few believed. All those people will come to Jesus again on the other side of the grave but, again, very few of them will be saved. Judgment had come (not just salvation). It's a much different passage then the one broached in the other op.

And, oh look, I can make that argument without once calling into question your understanding but, instead, rely on and trust in those faculties.

 

[Carbon]

Me neither.

I'm glad

Again, that has yet to be proven, and the argument ad nauseam is fallacious. And.... the discussion is once again being made personally derisive after I received a report that would not happen. Either keep the posts about the posts and make the case for the "all" not to mean all without mentioning me, or don't expect further replies.

I apologized for calling you a poor loser. You did not accept

This is not about you, and honestly, maybe you're too sensitive. It's almost like I cant say anything.

And again, you have not proven it. You have been told by a couple of people how scripture uses drawn, and you have not even given it any serious thought.

But stick around, I pray your eyes may be open to the truth in this. If not, it's not salvational, so no serious harm.

 

[Josheb]

I'm glad

I apologized for calling you a poor loser.

Yes, that did happen and now the the thread is off-topic.

You did not accept

I did accept, and you are invited to revisit the PM and prove otherwise.

This is not about you,

And yet I am told my understanding is incorrect. How is that not about me?

and honestly, maybe you're too sensitive.

I see. But the thread is not about me.

It's almost like I cant say anything.

Go back to Post 117 and count the number of times I mention you. Count them. How is it I can make the case for my position without once mentioning anyone but you think you cannot?

And again, you have not proven it.

I did not say I had. What I did say is I have made the case for what I believe (and I did it without drawing into question anyone's cognitive faculties. The case was made. I leave it to the reader to decide whether the case provided is convincing sufficiently to be proof.

You have been told by a couple of people how scripture uses drawn...

No, that is not quite correct. Multiple posters asserted their views on how they think "drawn" in two passage should be read but they did so with doctrinal bias and a selective use of scripture, openly refusing to examine all of scripture's use of divine drawing. At least one of them denied the relevance of some scriptures as if scripture did not speak with one cohesive voice on the matter.

, and you have not even given it any serious thought.

Ah, I see. My thoughts and how much I think about something is known to you.

But stick around, I pray your eyes may be open to the truth in this. If not, it's not salvational, so no serious harm.

Hmm... so my eyes are closed to the truth and need to be opened but the thread is not about me, and Post 118 did nothing to further the discussion of this op.


Thank you for your time.

 

[Eleanor]

Me neither.

Again, that has yet to be proven, and the argument ad nauseam is fallacious. And.... the discussion is once again being made personally derisive after I received a report that would not happen. Either keep the posts about the posts and make the case for the "all" not to mean all without mentioning me, or don't expect further replies.

The NT wasn't written in the 21st century.
"All," in the context of Judaism in which the NT was written, often means not limited to the Jews, but from all mankind.