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The Rapture

How do you apply this to mean below?

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

"In his own order." If I remember correctly ...The Greek word is "stasis." Its a military term for displaying different battalions on display.

First resurrected was Christ. Then the church. Then the other groups - the tribulation saints, post millennium saints, and OT saints.
Not all will be resurrected simultaneously. Christ and His church will be first.
 
"In his own order." If I remember correctly ...The Greek word is "stasis." Its a military term for displaying different battalions on display.

First resurrected was Christ. Then the church. Then the other groups - the tribulation saints, post millennium saints, and OT saints.
Not all will be resurrected simultaneously. Christ and His church will be first.
So Christ the firstfruits is Christ & the Church abiding in Him that will go at the pre great tribulation rapture event, but O.T. saints as well.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

So those saints & former believers found in unrepentant iniquity as being workers of iniquity will be left behind but I see O.T. saints being resurrected to join the N.T. disciples at the Supper Table in Heaven.
 
So Christ the firstfruits is Christ & the Church abiding in Him that will go at the pre great tribulation rapture event, but O.T. saints as well.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

So those saints & former believers found in unrepentant iniquity as being workers of iniquity will be left behind but I see O.T. saints being resurrected to join the N.T. disciples at the Supper Table in Heaven.

The two groups who can not be resurrected at the Rapture will be the Tribulation saints and the saints at the end of the Millennium.
What happens with the resurrected OT saints of the Millennium years will be amazing. They will be transported into the second new heavens and earth.

Luke 13:24-30

That is unique. There is also an unbeliever type rapture.

"Two will be in a field and one will be taken and the other left behind?"

That is not about our rapture.

Those taken up will be the tares Jesus spoke of. For the Millennium must begin with all believers who endured to the end
of the Tribulation.

grace and peace ..............
 
The two groups who can not be resurrected at the Rapture will be the Tribulation saints and the saints at the end of the Millennium.
What happens with the resurrected OT saints of the Millennium years will be amazing. They will be transported into the second new heavens and earth.



That is unique. There is also an unbeliever type rapture.

"Two will be in a field and one will be taken and the other left behind?"

That is not about our rapture.

Those taken up will be the tares Jesus spoke of. For the Millennium must begin with all believers who endured to the end
of the Tribulation.

grace and peace ..............
What are we, up to three raptures now?

Wantonly putting asunder what God has joined.
 
Stated in authoritative NT apostolic teaching or in personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8)?
This seems to be your fallback wording in end times threads if you do not agree with something. It is a common thing you say. You will repeat it over and over.
But I struggle to see who these people are who have come up with the NT apostolic teaching. Can you tell me.
 
This seems to be your fallback wording in end times threads if you do not agree with something. It is a common thing you say. You will repeat it over and over.
But I struggle to see who these people are who have come up with the NT apostolic teaching. Can you tell me.

She does not know what she is doing.

But..... she does know the effect she wishes to produce by obstructionism.
 
This seems to be your fallback wording in end times threads if you do not agree with something. It is a common thing you say. You will repeat it over and over.
But I struggle to see who these people are who have come up with the NT apostolic teaching. Can you tell me.
All the writings of NT teachings (as distinct from prophetic riddles not spoken clearly, Nu 12:8).
 
This seems to be your fallback wording in end times threads if you do not agree with something. It is a common thing you say. You will repeat it over and over.
But I struggle to see who these people are who have come up with the NT apostolic teaching. Can you tell me.
The following is authoritative NT apostolic teaching by John, Paul and Matthew, as distinct from personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not clearly spoken (Nu 12:8)

Jesus locates the resurrection in the last day (John 6:39).
Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16).
Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Matthew 24:39-41).
(The saints are caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds, whereupon they descend with him to earth for the Final Judgment.)
Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats (Matthew 25:31-33).

So in terms of the time of their occurrence, the rapture is (occurs at the time of) the judgment:

the last day = resurrection = rapture = second coming = final judgment of sheep and goats (all mankind)

(and the resurrection being in the last day with the judgment of the sheep and goats--all mankind,
thereby making only one resurrection. . .of all mankind).

If one's personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8) does not locate the rapture with the judgment of the sheep and goats at the end of time, that interpretation is not in agreement with authoritative NT apostolic teaching, thereby making it in error, for Scripture does not contradict itself.
 
The following is authoritative NT apostolic teaching by John, Paul and Matthew, as distinct from personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not clearly spoken (Nu 12:8)

Jesus locates the resurrection in the last day (John 6:39).
Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16).
Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Matthew 24:39-41).
(The saints are caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds, whereupon they descend with him to earth for the Final Judgment.)
Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats (Matthew 25:31-33).

So in terms of the time of their occurrence, the rapture is (occurs at the time of) the judgment:

the last day = resurrection = rapture = second coming = final judgment of sheep and goats (all mankind)

(and the resurrection being in the last day with the judgment of the sheep and goats--all mankind,
thereby making only one resurrection. . .of all mankind).

If one's personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8) does not locate the rapture with the judgment of the sheep and goats at the end of time, that interpretation is not in agreement with authoritative NT apostolic teaching, thereby making it in error, for Scripture does not contradict itself.
So, I agree with some of what you believe (Not all). Though I have spoken with you about end times a few years back and in the end, you came up with the same slogan. But, your authority seems to come from your own interpretation of what you read in the bible. The problem is that this is the same with other people who have other view points to you. They read the authoritative new testament and have a different understanding. So please, stop saying that your view is all that counts as it is in line with what scripture says.
I do agree though that there is only one correct interpretation. This is what the discussion is about. By saying that someone does not align with your understanding is not conducive of the discussion.
 
The two groups who can not be resurrected at the Rapture will be the Tribulation saints and the saints at the end of the Millennium.
To be clearer, it is the Great Tribulation saints ( left behind saints & former believers as well as new believer after the pre great tribulation rapture ) & then the saints that remain loyal to Christ after Satan's last rebellion.
What happens with the resurrected OT saints of the Millennium years will be amazing. They will be transported into the second new heavens and earth.
Still see them as resurrected to be with the firstfruits per Luke 13:24-30
That is unique. There is also an unbeliever type rapture.

"Two will be in a field and one will be taken and the other left behind?"

That is not about our rapture.
Luke 17:26-37 is the pre great tribulation rapture. Those taken away are done by a winglike flight and with hospitality for them to resort in.

The Greek word "sunago" shows how they are being "gathered" and that has to do with abiding saints.

If you will note these verses in context of what that message is about; believers are warned to be prepared to leave every thing behind, even your treasure on earth that you would not be tempted to go back for.

Luke 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
So it is a warning to believers to be ready & willing to leave before that fiery destruction comes on the earth.
Those taken up will be the tares Jesus spoke of. For the Millennium must begin with all believers who endured to the end
of the Tribulation.

grace and peace ..............
The tares are saints left behind to burn when that fire comes on the earth. That does not necessarily mean they are all unbelievers. After the rapture and the everlasting gospel by that first angel spreads it everywhere, there will be new believers before that fiery calamity comes.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

See how those believers that were not ready but found in iniquity are left behind for why they are getting stripes? compare below for not running that race by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily.

Hebrews 12:1
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
 
What are we, up to three raptures now?

Wantonly putting asunder what God has joined.
@GeneZ & @Hodgie

Only one rapture before the great tribulation whereas the resurrection after the great tribulation is when Jesus is already on earth after defeating the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem Revelation 19:11-21 and Satan is in the pit for a thousand years Revelation 20:1-3. As King of kings, He is not meeting those saints after the great tribulation in the air as the Bridegroom. That Marriage Supper was done with the pre great tribulation rapture saints in Revelation 19:1-10 before it opened again for Him to come forth as the King of kings at the end of the great tribulation.

Then there is that last rebellion by Satan for a small season at the end of the thousand year reign from which the Great White Throne Judgment will commence after that for those remaining loyal to Christ and His people.

So there are three whole harvests that makes up the kingdom of heaven. The firstfruits with O.T. saints and then they that be Christ's at His coming and finally, those out of that generation of that millennial reign of Christ that remained loyal to Christ and those that helped His people are resurrected &/or rewarded. That prophesy is found below in giving the bigger picture for how this will all end before Christ gives the completed kingdom back to the Father.

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
 
So, I agree with some of what you believe (Not all). Though I have spoken with you about end times a few years back and in the end, you came up with the same slogan. But, your authority seems to come from your own interpretation of what you read in the bible.
Perhaps you could demonstrate the error in the following authoritative NT apostolic teaching of John, Paul and Matthew, as distinct from personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not clearly spoken (Nu 12:8):

Jesus locates the resurrection in the last day (John 6:39).
Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16).
Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Matthew 24:39-41).
(The saints are caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds, whereupon they descend with him to earth for the Final Judgment.)
Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats (Matthew 25:31-33).

So in terms of the time of their occurrence, the rapture is (occurs at the time of) the judgment:

the last day = resurrection = rapture = second coming = final judgment of sheep and goats (all mankind)

(and the resurrection being in the last day with the judgment of the sheep and goats--all mankind,
thereby making only one resurrection. . .of all mankind).

If one's personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8) does not locate the rapture with the judgment of the sheep and goats at the end of time, that interpretation is not in agreement with authoritative NT apostolic teaching, thereby making it in error, for Scripture does not contradict itself.
 
@GeneZ & @Hodgie

Only one rapture before the great tribulation whereas the resurrection after the great tribulation is when Jesus is already on earth after defeating the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem Revelation 19:11-21 and Satan is in the pit for a thousand years Revelation 20:1-3. As King of kings, He is not meeting those saints after the great tribulation in the air as the Bridegroom. That Marriage Supper was done with the pre great tribulation rapture saints in Revelation 19:1-10 before it opened again for Him to come forth as the King of kings at the end of the great tribulation.

Then there is that last rebellion by Satan for a small season at the end of the thousand year reign from which the Great White Throne Judgment will commence after that for those remaining loyal to Christ and His people.

So there are three whole harvests that makes up the kingdom of heaven. The firstfruits with O.T. saints and then they that be Christ's at His coming and finally, those out of that generation of that millennial reign of Christ that remained loyal to Christ and those that helped His people are resurrected &/or rewarded. That prophesy is found below in giving the bigger picture for how this will all end before Christ gives the completed kingdom back to the Father.

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
Not according to the authoritative NT apostolic teaching of John, Paul and Matthew in my post above (#640).
 
Perhaps you could demonstrate the error in the following authoritative NT apostolic teaching of John, Paul and Matthew, as distinct from personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not clearly spoken (Nu 12:8):
I have shown you a long time ago. And when I did, you claimed that I was doing personal interpretation while you somehow had the correct interpretation. Knowing this, it is not worth getting into a debate about it as your fallback will be that other people do not have the authoritative NT apostolic understanding. You claim that your understanding of what John, Paul and Matthew is the correct one and that it could not be incorrect.
 
I have shown you a long time ago. And when I did, you claimed that I was doing personal interpretation while you somehow had the correct interpretation. Knowing this, it is not worth getting into a debate about it as your fallback will be that other people do not have the authoritative NT apostolic understanding. You claim that your understanding of what John, Paul and Matthew is the correct one and that it could not be incorrect.
Feel free to show where I am in error according to the authoritative NT apostolic teaching of Matthew, Paul and John presented in post #640.
 
Feel free to show where I am in error according to the authoritative NT apostolic teaching of Matthew, Paul and John presented in post #640.
Just a note. These forums are new but I put "authoritative NT apostolic teaching" and you have said it 43 times. That is amazing.
 
Yes of course that happened at the cross that my point it’s who Jesus is and what He did I’m not saying that the new covenant happened at the time Revelation was written

The problem was that Israel rejected their Messiah and carried on the temple sacrifices so God used Rome to put an end to it. Revelation is Gods official certificate of divorce and punishment to Israel and marriage to the church
That fails to explain Zechariah 12 and 14.
 
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