The Rapture

[Wordsmith]

So I reckon apostle meant one sent forth by God and that has to include Jesus Christ too. So I learned something new today when all the information comes together.

Does this mean you acknowledge we have those “sent forth” today?

 

[makesends]

Until you rightly divide the word of truth in the scriptures I am using, you are ignoring scripture that proves you are not rightly dividing the word of truth.

Oh! Kind of like, until you are born again, you won't be able to understand scripture. Not part of the club.

 

[ChristB4us]

Sorry for interrupting. Where are these three harvests mentioned?

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

The measures of the meal are the three harvests.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits;

The firstfruits as plural is the pre great tribulation rapture event.

..... afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

The Christ comes as the King of kings and after defeating te world's armies and Satan is in the pit for a thousand years, He resurrects those unrepentant saints and former believers left behind with new believers that were born again of the Spirit after the rapture event.

Then you have that 1000 year reign with a new generations coming for why Satan will be loose from the pit after that 1000 year reign and lead many in a last ditch rebellion but is defeated and the devil is cast into that lake of fire from when the Great White Throne Judgment will commence and when death & hell is cast into the lake of fire thereby completing the kingdom of Heaven by those 3 harvests in giving it to the Father.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Sorry for throwing off your groove, here, but, 'Christ (subject) are the OT saints and NT disciples (predicate)'...? I'm having a bit of trouble following your sentence.

Luke 13:24-30 KJV This is God judging His House at the pre great tribulation rapture event for being found in iniquity when He comes as the Bridegroom and those found in iniquity shall be left behind and missing out in sitting down at the table with the O.T. saints in Heaven

But even if you are saying, "Christ coming for the firstfruits [which are] the OT saints and NT disciples", that's not what 1 Corinthians 15:23 says in your quote. Looks to me a bit like you are changing the text. But maybe you meant to quote a different version.

Show me again the three harvests mentioned in the verses you quoted. I don't see it.

Ask Jesus to help you see it. I rely on Him to help me see and accept corrections and so He has to do that for you too.

 

[makesends]

I never said or implied they were the same. I simply answered a question with scripture.

Me wonders if thee protesteth too much. I hadn't meant it against you at all. Just thought it was relevant. But now, I wonder... j/k

 

[makesends]

The measures of the meal are the three harvests.

Show this. Scripture, please.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

We shall be changed not dropped to the ground. We will be changed to a new and glorified body like Jesus currently has.

No problem!!! So what happens to the OLD body, since no flesh can enter heaven. Seems like being left behind to rot makes perfect sense.

 

[makesends]

It is these same bodies, but glorified. Changed. And perfect. The old body is made new.

 

[Wordsmith]

No problem!!! So what happens to the OLD body, since no flesh can enter heaven. Seems like being left behind to rot makes perfect sense.

There was no shell left behind in Jesus’s tomb. The body He walked the earth in was raised a glorified eternal body of flesh and bone.
Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. No flesh and blood shall enter we will have glorified flesh with no need of blood.

 

[ChristB4us]

Show this. Scripture, please.

I did. Post # 843 As for all the parables, you have to ask Jesus for wisdom to have eyes to see and ears to hear.

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

The measures of the meal are the three harvests.

Otherwise, you tell me what that parable means.

Oh! Kind of like, until you are born again, you won't be able to understand scripture. Not part of the club.

Nope. Since James was writing to Christians seeking to understand His words or looking for answers.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

 

[Wordsmith]

I did. Post # 843 As for all the parables, you have to ask Jesus for wisdom to have eyes to see and ears to hear.

I see you do believe in the gift of wisdom!

 

[ChristB4us]

Does this mean you acknowledge we have those “sent forth” today?

Can a man testify of himself that he was sent forth?

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

John 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. 18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

Ananias was sent to the blind Saul as another witness that the Lord was sending Paul.

Acts 9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. 11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, 12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight. 13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: 14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. 15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

I am not sure anyone can claim themselves to be an apostle today by his own singular witness, let alone in the midst of all of those supposed manifestations of the "Holy Spirit" where confusion reigns, because there is no order in that movement of the "spirit" to establish such a Biblical testimony. Indeed, what is promoted and spotlighted for saved believers and sinners to come to is that name of that movement of the spirit.

Examples are Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusade, slain in the spirit, drunk in the spirit, holy laughter movement, Pensacola Outpouring, Toronto's Blessings, Azusa Street Revival, Welsh Revival... and so the movement of the spirit is actually the movement of the spirit of the antichrist because another banner is raised over the preaching of the cross; the Good News to man, the Lord Jesus Christ.

The indwelling Holy Spirit would never lead anyone to spotlight Himself as the movement of the spirit in anything but the spirits of the antichrist would by drawing attention to signs and wonders in seducing believers and sinners to seek after rather than Jesus Christ. They may use His name, but that is not where the spotlight is on in seeking the glory of.

 

[ChristB4us]

I see you do believe in the gift of wisdom!

It is not done by seeking another baptism with the Holy Ghost, brother and yet that is how they hyped that gift at the Azusa Street Revival in having that emphasis on the baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues rather than the preaching of the cross.

All you need to do is ask Jesus Christ at that throne of grace for wisdom in normal prayer so that you know you had prayed for that wisdom so when you receive that wisdom, you can give the father thanks in Jesus's name for that answer to prayer that you know you had asked for.

 

[Wordsmith]

Can a man testify of himself that he was sent forth?

So in your world no man can legitimately claim to be called to preach the gospel?

 

[ChristB4us]

So in your world no man can legitimately claim to be called to preach the gospel?

Any one man can preach the gospel when they are testifying about Jesus Christ in seeking His glory since He is the Good News to man

But no one man can testify OF HIMSELF that he is an apostle as sent by God unless confirmed by another witness like Ananias was for Paul. Imagine Paul trying to preach the gospel after the reputation that he had as a persecutor! Another had to bear witness to his conversion!

If a man came to your church and claim to be an apostle, perform miraculous "healing", and began speaking in tongues while conveniently interpret his own tongue, saying to you & your church that you have to sell all that you have and give everything to him for God has chosen him for a huge task that requires everything you & the church owns to accomplish this, I hope you guys rebuke him & kick him out & warn other churches to beware of him.

 

[makesends]

makesends said:
Show this. Scripture, please.

I did. Post # 843 As for all the parables, you have to ask Jesus for wisdom to have eyes to see and ears to hear.

Implying..... yeah, right!


Meanwhile, no, you didn't show it. All you showed was where you think a correct use —your use, of course— of a parable shows it.


Job: "No doubt, you are the people! And wisdom will die with you!"

 

[makesends]

I did. Post # 843 As for all the parables, you have to ask Jesus for wisdom to have eyes to see and ears to hear.

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

The measures of the meal are the three harvests.

Otherwise, you tell me what that parable means.

You imply that if I don't know what it means, then since you have an opinion you must be right? I'm glad your logic doesn't represent my theology.

Nope. Since James was writing to Christians seeking to understand His words or looking for answers.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

And let not that man think he receives wisdom through his own notions, because he sets his mind that it must be so!

 

[EarlyActs]

Oh! Kind of like, until you are born again, you won't be able to understand scripture. Not part of the club.

Dividing the Word has nothing to do with eschatology or dispensationalism.

 

[makesends]

Dividing the Word has nothing to do with eschatology or dispensationalism.

Unless you are a dispensationlist!

 

[prism]

Oh! Kind of like, until you are born again, you won't be able to understand scripture. Not part of the club.

Actually,... the new birth is essential to understanding the Scriptures...

1 Corinthians 2:14 ESV
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Unless a person is born again, true, they are not 'part of the club'.

 

[prism]

43 pages whew.
I'm not sure if this aspect has been discussed, but the 'when' of the rapture seems to hinge on the word 'wrath' as in...

1 Thessalonians 1:10 LSB
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.

Is this referring to the Great Tribulation or hell?