The judgment seat of Christ comes with Him to earth

[Josheb]

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It's the judgment seat of Christ. He sits thereon when He comes to judge His people, and all nations of the earth. His seat of judgment and government has the same power and authority of the great throne in heaven, which is white.

There are two huge problems with that sentence.

First, the passage does not state Jesus is judging his people. What the text actually states is, "in righteousness he judges and wages war," and from among the "the armies following him in heaven," "from his mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it he may strike down the nations," ruling them [from heaven] "with a rod of iron; and he treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty."

There is no judgment or war with or among his people.

Do not add "He comes to judge His people" to the white horse passage. It's not there and adding to God's word in Revelation brings curse upon the adder.

 

[Josheb]

God commands us to study His word to prove His doctrine and prophecy of Scripture.

That is correct and you clearly have not done so.

• When the fact scripture elsewhere repeatedly tells us judgment has been rendered the response from you is silence.
• When the distinctions between judgment, verdict, and sentence are posted the response from you is silence.
• When the distinctions between the horse and the throne are posted the response is silence.
• When the fact Jesus is never stated to physically come to earth until chapter 21 it took five pages of posts to have that acknowledged but even then, the posts continue to assert a physical, earthly, coming of the seat of judgment.
• When the fact the judgment of all people occurs in chapter 20 after the thousand years is completed the response is silence.
• When the ontological immutability of Jesus as Judge is broached, the response is silence.
• The "seat of judgment" is not defined as scripture defines and when that is broached the response is silence.
• When a request for explicit statement in scripture is made it is denied and mocked.
• When the practice of inference-only eisegesis is broached, the response is ridicule and fallacy.
• When explicit statements in scripture plainly and undeniably declaring alternatives to what has been contradictorily posted the response is silence.

These and other abject failures prove the op seriously flawed and thereby untenable and we're five pages into this thread and not a single one of these or any of the other faults have been addressed. We clearly have many places of agreement (as evidence by every occasion where you or I state agreement or otherwise affirm a particular point posted.

God commands us to study His word to prove His doctrine and prophecy of Scripture.

Yes, He does and this op, therefore, stands as an undeniable example of disobedience. The abject refusal to address the concerns I and others have broached makes it blatant and willful disobedience. The inclusion of fallacy as a defense makes the disobedience reprehensible fleshly, the adulterated antithesis of what God commands.

Content and method have to withstand scriptural examination.

 

[Josheb]

He always has been. He just wasn't called the Son Jesus, until He came down from heaven to earth in the flesh. At which time He laid down all His power to execute judgment upon others on earth.

Exactly.

He, therefore, does NOT need to move his seat anywhere at any time. Scripture never reports him doing so until Rev. 21-22, and that is long after the white horse war, long after the thousand years are completed AND after the white throne judgment of Satan, death, and anyone whose name is not written in the book of life.

Although, by the Spirit He did execute judgment upon devils on earth.

Scripture states judgment was rendered upon a lot more than just devils on earth. I posted several examples. Those examples are sitting idly in the thread among the chirping crickets because you've not engage, addressed, or discussed any of them.

God commands us to study His word to prove His doctrine and prophecy of Scripture.

Not only do these posts demonstrate a repeated failure of study, but the opportunity also to have that study here and now in this thread has been ignored. There is simply no way ANYONE claiming to have studied God's word in obedience can, should, or would add to Revelation or ignore the many times Jesus is explicitly reported to be in heaven, again and again, and again and ignore the fact he's not explicitly reported to be on earth until after the thousand years are completed and the fiery lake white throne judgment is finished......

By the Jesus who is always and everywhere Judge of all creation.

 

[Ghada]

nowhere does the text state the white horse ever leaves heaven and comes to earth.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

The idea of being seen in heaven running racetracks is certainly unique, but not commonly sensible.

Rev 19:15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev 19:19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Gathering to make war with the Lamb and His army in the air, may be insane, but they certainly aren't thinking to make war with anyone riding a white horse round and round in the 3rd heaven.

You are supposed to be defining the seat AND, most importantly, proving that seat moves twice, and proving that case in a manner that does not conflict with whole scripture.

The first movment is from heaven into the air to judge His peoples' works, between wheat and tares.

The second move after slaughtering the armies gathered around Armeggeddon, is down to Jersualem to judge the nations between sheep and goats.

{63:1} Who [is] this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this [that is] glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.

Therefore, when we speak of the day of judgment, what we're really, more accurately talking about is sentencing day, or the day on which the just recompense for sin, or an individual or groups actions (or inaction) is meted out.

The judgment of works and sentencing day, with the doers of works standing and giving and account before Christ and God, are at the same time.

And so, the judgment of works and sentencing day at the judgment seat of Christ, will be justification unto life for the righteous wheat, and appointment of the unjust tares with the hypocrites.

The judgment of works and sentencing day of the rest of the dead, will be at the GWT.

{4:1} I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

There will be the living wheat and dead tares judged as His second appearing on earth, and the living and the dead standing at His GWT over a thousand years later.

 

[Ghada]

I don't.

I meant exactly what I posted and posted exactly what I meant. There is not war AGAINST GOD that lasts one second longer than He permits.

True. His slaughter of the Egyptians crossing the Red Sea was immediate, as well as the Assyrians surrounding Jerusalem. And His slaughter of the armies around Armaggeddon are prophesied as being just as swift.

The Lord's way of waging war is to let His enemies gather into one place, and then destroy them in one fell swoop. Whether by collapsing sea, angel of death, or with His own sword seated upon His warhorse of judgment.

 

[Ghada]

Jesus, riding the white horse in heaven, is already King over all other kings.

So, you do believe He will be seen riding racetracks in heaven.

He does NOT need to come to earth to establish his kingship, kingdom, or reign. He's already doing all three in heaven.

Not yet standing upon the earth as prophesied of old, to govern the nations smitten by Him, to give the land to Abraham and his seed as promised, and for Job to see.

And to roar out of Zion, for all nations to come up to His mountain and hear Him in Person. Some come by taking hold of Jews' skirts.

That is what the text reports. On top of those two facts, the kings of the earth assemble, but Jesus is NOT stated to be there!

Psa 2:8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Not from heaven, but upon the earth as prophesied.

They robbed the Son of His inheritance the first time by crucifying Him. He will return for His inheritance the second time to destroy all them standing against Him.

What he commands from heaven has its effects on earth,

Not yet in Person upon the earth with resurrected flesh and bones.

 

[Ghada]

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No, it's not.

At best, the white horse is the seat from which he metes out sentencing, not judgment.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

To judge, make war, and sentence:


Mat 24:45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
Mat 24:48

Mat 24:48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming, And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken, The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

He either left the Great White Throne of Judgment to ride a great white horse among his army in heaven....

There is no question about that. I argue it's His judgment seat to begin His judgment of works on earth, with His people according to the Scriptures.

2 Peter{4:17} For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God? {4:18} And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Rom 3:5But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?

If the Lord gives a pass to the unrighteousness of His people, then how can He condemn the unrighteousness of the world? God forbid, that the righteous Lord and Judge of all the earth should condemn the guilty of the world, and acquit the guilty among His churches.

Naming the name of Christ by faith, is not a condemnation-free card played from the grave, nor at His judgment seat.

. or the white horse is simply a figure symbolizing the immutable throne of judgment that is with God always and everywhere.

Pretty symbols don't make for sure prophecy of Scripture.

I don't symbolize the sure words of Scripture into more fables of men.

2Pe 1:16For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

Everything prophesied about His come again will be exactly as prophecied, word for word.

 

[Ghada]

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First, the passage does not state Jesus is judging his people. What the text actually states is, "in righteousness he judges and wages war," and from among the "the armies following him in heaven,"

Inserting one's own doctrine into Scripture is usually be changing the Scripture, but only a few openly insert the words of their own doctrine.

There is no judgment or war with or among his people.

To judge and make war, has judging first, followed by making war.

Interrpeting prophecy of Scripture is as simple as grammar itself.

 

[Ghada]

He, therefore, does NOT need to move his seat anywhere at any time.

In order to judge all nations personally upon the earth, He will.

His prophecy of coming again shows how He will appear over the earth. Rev 19 shows how He will come.

 

[Mr GLee]

In order to judge all nations personally upon the earth, He will.

His prophecy of coming again shows how He will appear over the earth. Rev 19 shows how He will come.

He has judged them and found then guilty of falling short of the glory of God (the invisible head Christ) the husband . Its the one appointment all make right on time (death) No retrial. Yoked with his labor of love our daily sufferings burdens are made lighter with a living hope beyond the grave.

He will leave like a thief in the night on the last day under the Sun Close your eyes and beleive him not seen

 

[Josheb]

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nowhere does the text state the white horse ever leaves heaven and comes to earth.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

The idea of being seen in heaven running racetracks is certainly unique, but not commonly sensible.

No, there's no "idea" here. The verse does NOT state Jesus is on earth. What is states is heaven were opened an looking into or at what was opened in the heavens was Jesus on the white horse. No mention of John seeing him leave heaven.

Stop adding "ideas" to scripture that scripture does not state.

Subject your eschatology to what is stated and NOT post-scriptural, man-made doctrines. Make the doctrine comply with scripture, not the other way around.

The idea of being seen in heaven running racetracks is certainly unique, but not commonly sensible.

So, you do believe He will be seen riding racetracks in heaven.

Cute. I'd consider it clever where it not for the fact it's a deplorable red herring. No one has said anything about racetracks but you. Ditch that dross and stick to scripture. The verse cited plainly states Jesus is riding the white horse in heaven and scripture NEVER states he's riding the white horse on earth. You defensively inventing a red herring to dismiss the facts of scripture is not just irrational, it's sad.

Bend your eschatology to the specifics of scripture and do NOT believe those teachers who make scripture say what it never states.

 

[Josheb]

True. His slaughter of the Egyptians crossing the Red Sea was immediate, as well as the Assyrians surrounding Jerusalem. And His slaughter of the armies around Armaggeddon are prophesied as being just as swift.

The Lord's way of waging war is to let His enemies gather into one place, and then destroy them in one fell swoop. Whether by collapsing sea, angel of death, or with His own sword seated upon His warhorse of judgment.

Not only is it true, but the practice of God using war as a tool of judgment without ever leaving heaven is the established and repeated precedent throughout the whole of scripture!!! The premillennialist, for some irrational reason, thinks God has to leave heaven and do things differently even though it is a FACT of scripture Jesus does not return to earth until chapter 21 of Revelation.

 

[Josheb]

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

To judge, make war, and sentence:


Mat 24:45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods..........................................

Everything prophesied about His come again will be exactly as prophecied, word for word.

Waste of a post. Not one scripture quoted in the post 87 states Jesus is physically on the earth.

 

[Josheb]

Inserting one's own doctrine into Scripture is usually be changing the Scripture, but only a few openly insert the words of their own doctrine.

Exactly. So, you should stop doing that. Notice I have not asserted any doctrine. I keep pointing you to scripture and what scripture explicitly states and what it never states. Over and over, again and again I point you to scripture, and scripture read exactly as written. The only time I have spoken about doctrine it to point out errors in premillennialism OR to note how ALL of the other eschatologies agree. In other words, it is your doctrine that is the outlier.

The FACT is scripture does not explicitly report Jesus is physically on earth until Revelation 21. When heaven was opened for John he saw Jesus riding the white horse in heaven, NOT on earth, and nowhere does the rest of the passage ever report him being physically on the earth.

So stop inserting your doctrine into scripture. Stop trying to change scripture. Bend your eschatology to what is plainly stated and not the other way around.

Interrpeting prophecy of Scripture is as simple as grammar itself.

I agree. In act, scripture often does not need any "interpreting," especially not the kind of "interpreting whereby it is misused and abused, changed to make it say things it never states in open contradiction to what it does explicitly state. It is because scripture is easy to understand that this op fails.

Bend your eschatology to what scripture, not the other way around. On this occasion, the scriptures don't say the judgment seat physically comes to earth until Revelation 21.

 

[Ghada]

He has judged them and found then guilty of falling short of the glory of God (the invisible head Christ) the husband . Its the one appointment all make right on time (death) No retrial.

1 Peter {1:15} But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; {1:16} Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. {1:17} And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear:

He is judging all works of man on earth at all times, and shall show that jdugment personally to every man standing before Him.

2 Peter{4:17} For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God? {4:18} And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

First with His people from His judgment seat in the air, and then with the world from His judgment seat in Jersualem, and finally with all the rest of the dead from His GWT in heaven.

Therefore, knowing the terror of the Lord we persuade all believers, to live holy in all fear of the Lord, to be prepared for His judgment seat between the good wheat that do so, that are accepted of Him, and the bad tares that do not and are rejected of Him.

There is no judgment-condemnation-free faith card of believers with the righteous Lord and Judge of all the earth.

Rom 3:5But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?

If our righteousness is unjudged and not condemned by having faith alone, then how shall God judge and condemn the world? God forbid, that our righteous Lord be an unjust judge, who acquits His people, while condemning strangers for the same bad deeds.

 

[Ghada]

Yoked with his labor of love our daily sufferings burdens are made lighter

The normal burdens and sufferings of this life can be made lighter by any number of means, including religion.

Living godly with Jesus increases the tribulation, temptations, and sufferings at the hands of an ungodly world. Jesus' grace anbles us to endure them with grace, even as He did unto death on the cross.

with a living hope beyond the grave.

Not for sinners and trespeassers.

Sinning and trespassing is made more guilty by His death. Unrepented sinning and trespassing is made more condemned, by His resurrection command to repent of all sins and trespassess.

He will leave like a thief in the night on the last day under the Sun

Twice. At His second coming to judge His people and make war with the armies gathered against Him and His people in the air.

And after the last rebellion on earth, following the expiration of His 1000 year reign on earth.

Close your eyes and beleive him not seen

People can imagine and believe whatever they wish. But if their eyes are closed to doctrine and prophecy of Christ according to Scriptures, then their imagination is vain.

Mat 6:23But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

 

[Mr GLee]

Not yet made personally standing before Him.

He is the lamb of God slain from the foundation(the 6 days Christ did work) Demonstrated during the three day and night propmised demonstration .

In that way he did appear before the judnemnt seat of Christ and was signified as guilty sufferings the wage of sin

The normal burdens and sufferings of this life can be made lighter by any number of means, including religion.

Living godly with Jesus increases the tribulation, temptations, and sufferings at the hands of an ungodly world. Jesus' grace anbles us to endure them with grace, even as He did unto death on the cross.

Yes they can be lighter .if we do the work of rightly dividing the parables comparing the things seen the temporal historical to the unseen eternal. . spirit invisible things .They must be mixed or there will be no gospel rest.

Not for sinners and trespeassers.

Sinning and trespassing is made more guilty by His death. Unrepented sinning and trespassing is made more condemned, by His resurrection command to repent of all sins and trespassess.

I would think a born again believers would never give up the desire for the milk of the living word it can strengthen us so we can eat the meat the will of the father (hear and do)

It teaches us daily the Lord is gracious

Hebrews 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the wordof righteousness: for he is a babe.

1 Peter 2:2As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

People can imagine and believe whatever they wish. But if their eyes are closed to doctrine and prophecy of Christ according to Scriptures, then their imagination is vain.

Imagining and believing exercising the power of faith two different things .As new creatures we can believe unto the salvation of our new soul because he gives us the power to perform it .

Satan the spirit of imagination. King of lying wonder to seek after .rather that prophecy. God sends a strong delusion to them that are trusting thier imagination so they keep seeking the lying wonders . the only voice of the father of lies

 

[Ghada]

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What is states is heaven were opened an looking into or at what was opened in the heavens was Jesus on the white horse.

In the heavens opened is personal idea, that is inserted into and added to the Scripture.

Cute. I'd consider it clever where it not for the fact it's a deplorable red herring. No one has said anything about racetracks but you

Not that clever, but only sensible to ask where and how He would be riding around in heaven, for all eyes on earth to see...

. Ditch that dross and stick to scripture.

Asking sensible questions about the practice of something taught, is not dross but practical.

Scripture has nothing to do with the Lord being seen riding around in heaven. Practical inquiry about such a thing is only a practical exercise, searching into the folly of it.

If we cannot explain the practical sense of something taught, then we must show from Scripture, that there is no practical sense to it, because it's only an allegory.

Ex: In an allegory of Gal 4, New Jerusalem is the mother of all us believers in Christ Jesus. How that works practically can be surmised, but not proven. I would say that New Jerusalem now in heaven is the true ministry of Christ to them on earth. She will be perfectly wed to all men dwelling with God in her on the Newly created earth, that has no sea. Once this old heaven and earth full of seas, is passed away forever.

NOT believe those teachers who make scripture say what it never states.

Exactly. No matter how much personal angst and resentment, that they show about being rejected. Including how many times they must cast away sound correction of Scripture, as just so much unwanted dross to them.

 

[Ghada]

Not only is it true, but the practice of God using war as a tool of judgment without ever leaving heaven is the established and repeated precedent throughout the whole of scripture!!!

True. He didn't wage war with sinful men on earth in the flesh, nor in resurrected flesh and bones.

He has yet to come again and wage His war to end all wars on earth, by governing upon the earth for a thousand years.

And then comes the final war on earth, when His governing reign expires on earth.

The premillennialist, for some irrational reason, thinks God has to leave heaven and do things differently

He did very much differently by coming the flesh as the Lamb of God. After that, coming with resurrected body is not so different. And since His prophecy is to then govern upon the earth as the Lion of the tribe of Judah, it's not irrational but only His choice.

Irrational and terrible to them that don't want Him to though, if their works are bad and not good.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;

Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

[Josheb]

In the heavens opened is personal idea, that is inserted into and added to the Scripture.

No, it si not.

And that does not change the facts in evidence. Jesus and the horse are in heaven, not on earth. You've added to the scriptures and hold a doctrine that is NOT proven with scripture as God commands. The entire thread stands as an overt act of disobedience!

Not that clever, but only sensible to ask where and how He would be riding around in heaven, for all eyes on earth to see...

No, it's not sensible at all. No one brought up "racetrack" but you. It is an utterly fallacious act of disobedient avoidance to ask nonsense when a veracious alternative exists.



And because the matter of how and when his being on earth is decided in scripture and you've failed to accept those facts AND failed to prove the op I am moving on from this thread, too. Five pages is enough space for anyone to prove their position and that has not happened.