The Atonement

[brightfame52]

No, faith is the means (second cause) by which God saves, he likewise being the author of the gift of faith (Php 1:29, Ac 13:48, Av 18:27, 2 Pe 1:1, Ro 12:3).

Faith is caused by God in Christ when He saves you, its not a cause but a fruit of Salvation. If you arent careful you make an act of man to be Co Saviour with Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

CORRECT. If NOT MIXED WITH FAITH, it accomplishes NOTHING. Heb 4:2

Thats making an act of man a Co Saviour, thats not good. And its a shame you said that without mans act, the Atonement accomplished nothing.

 

[civic]

Thats making an act of man a Co Saviour, thats not good. And its a shame you said that without mans act, the Atonement accomplished nothing.

No faith , no salvation , no eternal life . No one is saved apart from faith.

The debate is whether or not faith is monergistic or synergistic .

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Thats making an act of man a Co Saviour, thats not good. And its a shame you said that without mans act, the Atonement accomplished nothing.

It accomplishes nothing for the one without faith. Of course you already knew that.

SO next comment??

 

[civic]

You contradict yourself. Since faith is caused by God, it can never be the work of man.

Amen

 

[Eleanor]

Faith is caused by God in Christ when He saves you, its not a cause but a fruit of Salvation. If you arent careful you make an act of man to be Co Saviour with Christ.

First of all, faith is a gift (Php 1:29, Ac 13:48, Av 18:27, 2 Pe 1:1, Ro 12:3), so man gets no credit for his faith.

And we are saved through that gift of faith, the faith is not caused by the salvation, the salvation is the result of the gift of faith.

Yours is not orthodox Christianity, it is heresy.

 

[Eleanor]

Thats making an act of man a Co Saviour, thats not good.

And to deny that salvation is through faith (Eh 2:8-9) is to deny God's salvation, and to create your own, "thats not good."

And its a shame you said that without mans act, the Atonement accomplished nothing.

When the atonement must be applied through the gift of faith (Ro 3:25), that is God in operation all the way.

Yours is not orthodox Christianity, it is heresy.

 

[civic]

So mans appropriating act saves and not the atonement in and of itself, correct ?

neither of the above are true.

 

[makesends]

Eleanor said:
No resurrection means no resurrection power in the believer.

And no life

Still dead in sin, ?

No resurrection of Christ? Yes, still dead in sin —in fact, without hope.

"And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins."

 

[Bob Carabbio]

neither of the above are true.

Word games.

 

[makesends]

brightfame52 said:
So mans appropriating act saves and not the atonement in and of itself, correct ?

civic said:
neither of the above are true.

Word games.

Are you saying that @civic , or that @brightfame52, is engaging in word games?

I would say civic is exactly right there. (1 It is neither man's appropriating act that saves, nor (2 even the atonement in and of itself. For it is 2) by grace you have been saved, through faith, 1) and that, not of yourself. The atonement is sufficient for atoning, and needs nothing added, to atone. But it is by (1) grace through (2) faith we are saved.

 

[civic]

brightfame52 said:
So mans appropriating act saves and not the atonement in and of itself, correct ?

civic said:
neither of the above are true.


Are you saying that @civic , or that @brightfame52, is engaging in word games?

I would say civic is exactly right there. (1 It is neither man's appropriating act that saves, nor (2 even the atonement in and of itself. For it is 2) by grace you have been saved, through faith, 1) and that, not of yourself. The atonement is sufficient for atoning, and needs nothing added, to atone. But it is by (1) grace through (2) faith we are saved.

I know Bob really well it wasn’t me lol .

 

[brightfame52]

More on the Accomplishments !

Jesus blood shed was in order to sanctify the people, those people He shed His blood for Heb 13:12

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

Those Jesus Christ died for, it ensures them, the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit and the belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

He prays for this very blessing right here Jn 17:19,20

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. [ see Heb 13:12]

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

This applies to all future believers, for Jesus says which shall believe !

Thats a promise that they shall believe, because of the sanctifying work of the Holy Ghost in them.

All this by the blood of Christ, what He accomplished !

 

[brightfame52]

It accomplishes nothing for the one without faith. Of course you already knew that.

SO next comment??

Again its a shame you say that about Christs Atoning Death.

 

[brightfame52]

You contradict yourself. Since faith is caused by God, it can never be the work of man.

So are you saying the good works the saved man does arent caused by God ? Explain Phil 2:12-13

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

[brightfame52]

First of all, faith is a gift (Php 1:29, Ac 13:48, Av 18:27, 2 Pe 1:1, Ro 12:3), so man gets no credit for his faith.

And we are saved through that gift of faith, the faith is not caused by the salvation, the salvation is the result of the gift of faith.

Yours is not orthodox Christianity, it is heresy.

Lol, if God causes something, its a gift friend.

 

[civic]

Lol, if God causes something, its a gift friend.

So the flood was a gift . Sure it was .

 

[brightfame52]

brightfame52 said:
So mans appropriating act saves and not the atonement in and of itself, correct ?

civic said:
neither of the above are true.


Are you saying that @civic , or that @brightfame52, is engaging in word games?

I would say civic is exactly right there. (1 It is neither man's appropriating act that saves, nor (2 even the atonement in and of itself. For it is 2) by grace you have been saved, through faith, 1) and that, not of yourself. The atonement is sufficient for atoning, and needs nothing added, to atone. But it is by (1) grace through (2) faith we are saved.

Sufficient for atonement ? That means it falls short of making actual atonement, which contradicts Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

How were they reconciled according to the above scripture ?

 

[brightfame52]

So the flood was a gift . Sure it was .

You out of context of the conversation.

 

[civic]

You out of context of the conversation.

No you said if God causes something it’s a gift . Your words not mine .