The Atonement

[civic]

heading to mens discipleship in a few minutes I'll check back in a couple of hours.

 

[Ritajanice]

just my thoughts.

Without the death of Jesus ....there would be no way back to God...that’s why he came....God couldn’t come down as himself could he......so he sent Jesus.....perfect in every way.....he took our sins , gave up His Spirit,...out of LOVE for us revolting sinners......that’s our way back to God Through the LIVING power of the Holy Spirit.

Again, not biblical, just my way of getting involved in the discussion, which I’m thoroughly enjoying reading.

 

[Ritajanice]

Of course Jesus death gives life...that LIFE “ LIVING “ Life, comes through the Holy Spirit....

 

[Eleanor]

Thats the fruit of His Death Heb 5:8-9

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Obedience is the result of His Authorship of Eternal Salvation, and that obedience comes through the Spirit 1 Pet 1:22
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

What does the hi-lighted mean?

 

[civic]

That's all good but it looks like what you've done is explain the resurrection, and skipped over what His death accomplished. You said what it doesn't do in your opinion.

Is there a text that supports this below?

Think logically about death.

In the bible death is the result of sin, death is the loss of life. Sin is separation from God. Death is the result of sin. Jesus death as Paul points out in 1 Cor 15 didn't do anything for giving life. Life came from His resurrection. If Jesus is not Risen from the dead we are off all men most miserable and we are left in our sins. Your faith is in vain. 15:15-18. Paul Triumphantly ends the chapter saying death where is thy sting, death where is your victory. He declares this because Jesus conquered sin and death by being raised from the dead and the promise our our resurrection from the grave.

Paul drives this home in Romans 6 where we see its His Resurrected life that gives us life and victory over sin, not His death. Life is associated with the Resurrection.

Romans 6- Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

 

[Eleanor]

Think logically about death.

In the bible death is the result of sin, death is the loss of life. Sin is separation from God. Death is the result of sin. Jesus death as Paul points out in 1 Cor 15 didn't do anything for giving life. Life came from His resurrection. If Jesus is not Risen from the dead we are off all men most miserable and we are left in our sins. Your faith is in vain. 15:15-18. Paul Triumphantly ends the chapter saying death where is thy sting, death where is your victory. He declares this because Jesus conquered sin and death by being raised from the dead and the promise our our resurrection from the grave.

Paul drives this home in Romans 6 where we see its His Resurrected life that gives us life and victory over sin, not His death. Life is associated with the Resurrection.

Romans 6- Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

No resurrection means no resurrection power in the believer.

 

[Ritajanice]

Our spirit is resurrected and brought to life by the power of the Holy Spirit...how else would we know we are Born Again?

This is a supernatural act of God through the Holy Spirit ...our spirit is Alive in Christ on this earth, even though we are in the world, we are not of the world...we are in the Kingdom of God....a Born Again.

Scripture.

Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection



So, it’s Christ now who lives in us, through the rebirth/ regenerated/ birthed in the Spirit..

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◄ Romans 8:16 ►

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Context Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. New Living Translation For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children. English Standard Version The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, Berean Standard Bible The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. Berean Literal Bible The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

Verse page
" >Colossians 2:13
Verse Concepts
When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
">Philippians 4:13
Verse Concepts
I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.
Verse page
" >2 Corinthians 5:17
Verse Concepts
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
Verse page
" >Galatians 2:20
Verse Concepts
I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

 

[civic]

No resurrection means no resurrection power in the believer.

And no life

 

[Ritajanice]

And no life

Still dead in sin, ?

 

[civic]

Still dead in sin, ?

The atonement does not instill life

 

[Ritajanice]

The atonement does not instill life

The Atonement is the sacrifice Jesus Christ made to help us overcome sin, adversity, and death. Jesus's atoning sacrifice took place in the Garden of Gethsemane and on the cross at Calvary. He paid the price for our sins, took upon Himself death, and was resurrected.


It’s the Holy Spirit who instils life....after the death of Jesus.....that’s how we are birthed into Christ...by the power of his Spirit.

 

[Eleanor]

And no life

No resurrection of Jesus means no resurrection power now in the believer.

 

[Eleanor]

The Atonement is the sacrifice Jesus Christ made to help us overcome sin, adversity, and death. Jesus's atoning sacrifice took place in the Garden of Gethsemane and on the cross at Calvary. He paid the price for our sins, took upon Himself death, and was resurrected.


It’s the Holy Spirit who instils life....after the death of Jesus.....that’s how we are birthed into Christ...by the power of his Spirit.

The atoning sacrifice is for the removal of sin, which removal of sin through faith removes/saves us from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) on sin,
by which sacrifice God declares believers "not guilty," in right standing with his justice, which is justification,
and imputes Christ's righteousness to us (Ro 4:1-11).

 

[Ritajanice]

The atoning sacrifice is for the removal of sin, which removal of sin through faith removes/saves us from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) on sin, whereby God declares us "not guilty," in right standing with his justice, which is justification,
and imputes Christ's righteousness to us (Ro 4:1-11).

The removal of sin comes when we have been forgiven of our sin, when God draws us to Jesus..we repent, which again HE brings us to...then he births us in the Spirit , we are then a new creation and are Alive in the Spirit...Our Spirit is in His....we are children of God...Through the power of the Holy Spirit ...which is the “ Living” word of God....we become Born Again, Through His Living word.

Hebrews 4:12​

12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to thedivision of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentionsof the heart.
Read In Context

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Related Verses​

1 Peter 1:23
since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;

Jeremiah 23:29
Is not my word like fire, declares the LORD, and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?

1 Thessalonians 2:13
And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.

 

[Eleanor]

The atonement does not instill life

The atonement pays the debt of sin for believers who are still alive on planet earth.

 

[civic]

No resurrection of Jesus means no resurrection power now in the believer.

Read 1 Cor 15 and Roman’s 6 which I referenced and says what I’m stating .

 

[civic]

The removal of sin comes when we have been forgiven of our sin, when God draws us to Jesus..we repent, which again HE brings us to...then he births us in the Spirit , we are then a new creation and are Alive in the Spirit...Our Spirit is in His....we are children of God...Through the power of the Holy Spirit ...which is the “ Living” word of God....we become Born Again, Through His Living word.

Hebrews 4:12​

12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to thedivision of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentionsof the heart.
Read In Context

---

Related Verses​

1 Peter 1:23
since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;

Jeremiah 23:29
Is not my word like fire, declares the LORD, and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?

1 Thessalonians 2:13
And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.

And tie that into 1 Cor 15 and Roman’s 6 about resurrection and life. If Christ is not risen we are still dead in our sins- dead means no life. As Calvinists like to say dead as a corpse like Lazarus in the grave.

 

[Ritajanice]

Romans 6

New King James Version

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Dead to Sin, Alive to God​

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be [a]done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been [b]freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, [c]reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as [d]instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace

 

[Eleanor]

The removal of sin comes when we have been forgiven of our sin, when God draws us to Jesus..we repent, which again HE brings us to...then he births us in the Spirit , we are then a new creation and are Alive in the Spirit...Our Spirit is in His....we are children of God...Through the power of the Holy Spirit ...which is the “ Living” word of God....we become Born Again, Through His Living word.

Spiritually dead men don't do anything spiritual, including repentance.

The NT presents our re-birth into the eternal life Adam lost for us as a sovereign act of the Holy Spirit, dependent on nothing but his sovereign choice, not on repentance, faith, works, etc., but as a sovereign act as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:7-8).

Hebrews 4:12​

12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to thedivision of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentionsof the heart.
Read In Context

It follows the writer's plea not to fail to go into salvation rest in Jesus Christ, rest from one's own work to save and in Jesus' work which saves.
It presents the word of God as judging.

Related Verses​

1 Peter 1:23
since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;

The new birth is the direct action of the Holy Spirit (Tit 3:5) enabling one to respond to the word of God in the gospel with faith and repentance.

Jeremiah 23:29
Is not my word like fire, declares the LORD, and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?

1 Thessalonians 2:13
And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.

They accepted the word of God because of their sovereign rebirth.

 

[Ritajanice]

The NT presents our re-birth into the eternal life Adam lost for us as a sovereign act of the Holy Spirit, dependent on nothing but his sovereign choice, not on repentance, faith, works, etc., but as a sovereign act as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:7-8).

It follows the writer's plea not to fail to go into salvation rest in Jesus Christ, rest from one's own work to save and in Jesus' work which saves.
It presents the word of God as judging.

The new birth is the direct action of the Holy Spirit (Tit 3:5) enabling one to respond to the word of God in the gospel with faith and repentance.

They accepted the word of God because of their sovereign rebirth.

We are birthed in the Spirit...you don’t have to read a bible to be birthed in the Spirit..

The new birth is like the wind, you have no idea where it comes from.

God’s word is Alive and Active ...You can only come to the Father Through JESUS and only Jesus.

John 3:8​

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New International Version​

​

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8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit


It’s the “ LIVING “ word of God that testifies with our spirit that we are children of God.

You don’t need a Bible for God to do that....as HIS word is Alive in Spirit.

​

◄ Romans 8:16 ►

​

Context Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. New Living Translation For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children. English Standard Version The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, Berean Standard Bible The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.

As I’ve explained many times, God’s word is Alive and Active .....without JESUS and only JESUS....there would be NO birth in the Spirit...None!...he draws us to Godly sorrow and Repentance.

Kindness that Leads to Repentance (Romans 2:4)​

God in his great mercy and Love....draws us to his Son, JESUS!......Spirit gives birth to spirit.