The Atonement

[brightfame52]

eleanor

The liberty here is set free from condemnation, eternal death.

Is that what you mean by spiritual liberty?

Both, Christs Atoning Death provides and effects a total Salvation, free from condemnation and from dominion of sin.

 

[brightfame52]

What are the objectives and effects of the death of Christ ?

Another accomplishment of the Death of Christ, it ensured the Spiritual cleansing and sanctification of all those He died for. The church.

Eph 5:25-26

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,

to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word,

Jesus pointed that out in His Prayer Jn 17:17,19

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

 

[Eleanor]

What are the objectives and effects of the death of Christ ?

Another accomplishment of the Death of Christ, it ensured the Spiritual cleansing and sanctification of all those He died for. The church.

Eph 5:25-26
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word,
Jesus pointed that out in His Prayer Jn 17:17,19
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

Obedience in the Holy Spirit which leads to righteousness leading to holiness being a part of that sanctification (Ro 6:16, 19).

 

[brightfame52]

Obedience in the Holy Spirit which leads to righteousness leading to holiness being a part of that sanctification (Ro 6:16, 19).

Christs Death will give the Spirit and obedience, that's the fruit of His atoning death.

 

[civic]

Christs Death will give the Spirit and obedience, that's the fruit of His atoning death.

His death does not give the Holy Spirit.

Where is that taught in the bible ?

Please provide a verse stating His death gives the Holy Spirit.

 

[Eleanor]

Christs Death will give the Spirit and obedience, that's the fruit of His atoning death.

Yes, the Holy Spirit enables the born again to obey the word of God.

 

[civic]

Yes, the Holy Spirit enables the born again to obey the word of God.

That is true but the poster is claiming Christ death gives the Holy Spirit. That is unbiblical.

 

[makesends]

That is true but the poster is claiming Christ death gives the Holy Spirit. That is unbiblical.

She's not disagreeing with you. @Eleanor was misusing what he had said —and on purpose, I think.

 

[Eleanor]

She's not disagreeing with you. @Eleanor was misusing what he had said —and on purpose, I think.

Purposely rephrasing it correctly.

 

[brightfame52]

His death does not give the Holy Spirit.

Where is that taught in the bible ?

Please provide a verse stating His death gives the Holy Spirit.

His Death is the legal ground by which Life is given because His death put away their sins. So He sends the Spirit to quicken, give life to all for whom He died and put away sin.

 

[civic]

His Death is the legal ground by which Life is given because His death put away their sins. So He sends the Spirit to quicken, give life to all for whom He died and put away sin.

Death does not give life it covers sin . The Resurrection gives life.

1 Corinthians 15:17- And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

The passage declares if Christ is not risen, raised from the dead, resurrected then our faith is in vain and we are still dead in our sins. We are saved by His life/Resurrection not His death. His death atoned for sin but does not give life.

Romans 4:24-25
but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

Paul declares in Romans 5:10 the following: For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Cf Acts 17:31.

John 11:25-26
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

 

[Eleanor]

Death does not give life it covers sin . The Resurrection gives life.

1 Corinthians 15:17- And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

The passage declares if Christ is not risen, raised from the dead, resurrected then our faith is in vain and we are still dead in our sins. We are saved by His life/Resurrection not His death. His death atoned for sin but does not give life.

We're getting confused by the Bilbical terminology and chronology.

Resurrection life is given at the new birth, which is a re-impartation of God's divine eternal life within the immortal human spirit, which was lost by Adam.
Christ's death pays the penalty for our sin, and thereby remits our penalty which saves us from his wrath (Ro 5:9),
God thereby declaring us "not guilty," in right standing with his justice, clean record with his Court, which is justification, and imputing righteousness to us (Ro 4:1-11), all through faith.

Romans 4:24-25
but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

Paul declares in Romans 5:10 the following: For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Cf Acts 17:31.

John 11:25-26
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

 

[makesends]

Purposely rephrasing it correctly.

I was thinking of it more, as you were showing him the only way that what he said could make any sense. I.e. not giving his construction the respect he likely thought it deserved.

 

[civic]

We're getting confused by the Bilbical terminology and chronology.

Resurrection life is given at the new birth, which is a re-impartation of God's divine eternal life within the immortal human spirit, which was lost by Adam.
Christ's death pays the penalty for our sin, and thereby remits our penalty which saves us from his wrath (Ro 5:9),
God thereby declaring us "not guilty," in right standing with his justice, clean record with his Court, which is justification, and imputing righteousness to us (Ro 4:1-11), all through faith.

I’m not confused at all

 

[Eleanor]

I was thinking of it more, as you were showing him the only way that what he said could make any sense. I.e. not giving his construction the respect he likely thought it deserved.

You're right, it was that also.

And thinking it might lead to a contradiction which would expose his error.

 

[Eleanor]

I’m not confused at all

Maybe not a good choice of words.

However, in the NT (Jesus') death remits sin, not just covers it.

The OT sacrifices only covered sin, they did not remit sin.

 

[civic]

Maybe not a good choice of words.

However, in the NT (Jesus') death remits sin, not just covers it.

The OT sacrifices only covered sin, they did not remit sin.

It doesn’t save it regenerate anyone .

 

[Eleanor]

It doesn’t save it regenerate anyone .

Jesus' suffering the penalty of God's wrath on sin in his suffering and death, saves us from that penalty, which penalty is eternal death.
It saves those who believe in and trust on his atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25) for the remission of their sin.

Regeneration is rebirth by the sovereign Holy Spirit, depending on nothing but his sovereign choice, whereby one believes and is saved from God's wrath on his sin.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, the Holy Spirit enables the born again to obey the word of God.

Thats the fruit of His Death Heb 5:8-9

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Obedience is the result of His Authorship of Eternal Salvation, and that obedience comes through the Spirit 1 Pet 1:22
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

 

[civic]

If Christ hadn't died for our sins, could anyone be saved?

I'd say His death does save, (Ephesians 2/Colossians 2 accomplishment) since it is part and parcel to the Gospel, 1 Corinthians 15:1ff.

What would you say that His death accomplished?

Death does not give life it covers sin . The Resurrection gives life. Pauls entire discourse after he explains the gospel in verses 3-8 is focused on the central part of the gospel- the Resurrection from 4-58.

1 Corinthians 15:17- And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.

The passage declares if Christ is not risen, raised from the dead, resurrected then our faith is in vain and we are still dead in our sins. We are saved by His life/Resurrection not His death. His death atoned for sin but does not give life.

Romans 4:24-25
but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

Paul declares in Romans 5:10 the following: For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Cf Acts 17:31.

Life is associated with Resurrection by Jesus below.

John 11:25-26
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”