The Ability To Choose - Free Will

[makesends]

Romans 9 can be taklen a few ways. The fatalistic view of romans 9 is flawed.

It's not a fatalistic view, but inestimably hopeful.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Here-in lies the Solution; Spiritual Death is Separation from God. To become Spiritually Alive is to no longer be Separated from God. We would have more in common with an Unfallen, Unjustified Adam; who could walk with God...

Yes, we are seperated from God as a result of the penalty of sin.

So we cn not be made alive while still under the penalty of sin

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

But there you say it yourself. Agreed, that you cannot be made alive while still dead in sin. The Calvinist says the same. The elect do not remain dead in sin, in which they are made alive; the Calvinist says that the spiritually dead are raised from death to life. A new creature.

In effect, but not in words, you're (at least, here) saying what we do, I think. No man can produce the effects/results of being a new creature without becoming that new creature. —Agreed?

How can that happen without justification?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

It's not a fatalistic view, but inestimably hopeful.

I taught Romans 9 once.

I gave the fatalistic view.

Then a seperate view.

The fatalistic view did not work.

 

[ReverendRV]

Yes, we are seperated from God as a result of the penalty of sin.

So we cn not be made alive while still under the penalty of sin

Why?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Why?

How can God go against his justice?

God demands a payment for sin. If he could over rule it just because. Christ would have no need to come

 

[ReverendRV]

How can God go against his justice?

God demands a payment for sin. If he could over rule it just because. Christ would have no need to come

God can only go against his Justice through his Grace...

Do you think the Widow of Nain's son was raised from the Dead while under the Penalty of Sin?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

God can only go against his Justice through his Grace...

He can not go against his justice at all. Otherwise he would not be a perfect judge

But he did make a way. Love could not overrule. But it could make a payment

Do you think the Widow of Nain's son was raised from the Dead while under the Penalty of Sin?

Not sure who your talking about

 

[ReverendRV]

He can not go against his justice at all. Otherwise he would not be a perfect judge

But he did make a way. Love could not overrule. But it could make a payment

Not sure who your talking about

If God can't make anyone Alive while they're under the Penalty of Sin, he cannot Heal anyone while they're under the Penalty of Sin. Jesus raised people from the Dead while they were under Sin; IE the Widow of Nain's Gentile son...

You are trying too hard to keep your beliefs...

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

If God can't make anyone Alive while under the Penalty of Sin, he cannot Heal anyone under the Penalty of Sin. Jesus raised people from the Dead while they were under Sin; IE the Widow of Nain's Gentile son...

You are trying too hard to keep your beliefs...

God can’t raise from the physical dead? Says who?

Is it me trying to hard?

The wage of sin is death, the gift of God is life. Based on redemption.

Without the death of christ, No one can be made alive

 

[ReverendRV]

God can’t raise from the physical dead? Says who?

Is it me trying to hard?

The wage of sin is death, the gift of God is life. Based on redemption.

Without the death of christ, No one can be made alive

You said it, the Gift of God is Life. It's a Case of Special Pleading to say God can physically raise the dead while they are under the Penalty of Sin, but he can't Spiritually raise the Dead while they are under the same Penalty of Sin...

Something to chew on...

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

You said it, the Gift of God is Life. It's a Case of Special Pleading to say God can physically raise the dead while they are under the Penalty of Sin, but he can't Spiritually raise the Dead while they are under the same Penalty of Sin...

Something to chew on...

The wage of sin is spiritual death

As I see it. You can’t have someone made spiritually alive while still under the wage of sin

Without that sin being paid for. That’s where justification comes in

People hate the term free grace. Sadly it was not free it cost Christ a lot.. but to me. It does not cost me anything.

 

[ReverendRV]

As I see it. You can’t have someone made spiritually alive while still under the wage of sin

Even Christ's Soul, which was under the Penalty of Sin?

 

[Arial]

and what caused this

Not what. Who? God.

 

[Arial]

As I see it. You can’t have someone made spiritually alive while still under the wage of sin

That is why they must be reborn first. Are you about to get it?

Didn't Jesus go to the sinners and not those who considered themselves righteous?

 

[makesends]

God made me in his image

God did not make the horse in his image.

What does this mean, What did God give me he did not give the horse.

He places you IN CHRIST, and gives you the right to all the promises of heaven, including the fact of being the Body of Christ, the Children of God, the People of God, the Dwelling Place of God and so on —which things not even the angels are, nor will be. Does "Image of God" fit that? I think very definitely so!

The differences do not lie in us, but in whom we live. And it is for that, that we are made.

 

[makesends]

How can that happen without justification?

It doesn't, in my book. Who says it does?

But the Spirit can do whatever it pleases, as unaccountable as the wind. (John 3)

 

[makesends]

I taught Romans 9 once.

I gave the fatalistic view.

Then a seperate view.

The fatalistic view did not work.

Lol, I've taught Romans 9, too.

The self-deterministic view is not even to be found there, except in statements where it is explicitly denied.

I'm guessing you intend, by, 'fatalistic view', only what you reduce the Calvinistic to be saying or implying.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Even Christ's Soul, which was under the Penalty of Sin?

I am not sure what you mean here.

Are you talking about Christ's spiritual death on the cross?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

That is why they must be reborn first. Are you about to get it?

Yes they must.

But they are reborn WHEN their sins are forgiven.

Not before..

Didn't Jesus go to the sinners and not those who considered themselves righteous?

I am not sure what this has to do with the discussion.