something like scales fell from his eyes

[Carbon]

After Regeneration, is there a new kind of knowing? Paul's conversion is recorded like this:
And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized; Acts 9:18.

Here is what @Red Baker had to say in another thread.

Red Baker said:
...
Brother, no man knows the hour in which regeneration took place, this would ne impossible. There could be days, even months, maybe even longer, before true evidence is seen. We may get close to the season in which we begin to be willing to listen with a purpose of changing our life, but he exact time is hidden from us. I know this may open up a new can of worms.

Personally, I believe true grace brings a new knowing. The mind is enlighteneed with new thoughts. That old saying, holy affections are not heat without light. They always arise from new information - spiritual instruction that was previously unknown or is now seen in a new light.

I agree as some say, is a gradual process, but this is the working out what God put in. However, I believe from the new birth, we see all things as new. Though, we may notr realize all things right away.

 

[Carbon]

Regeneration involves the mind, and the mind is given new thoughts that enable the heart to change.

I believe right away, man has a whole new knowing and seeing.

I think this is reasonable. If regeneration is a radical change (I dont tink anyone could deny this), then every part of the person is affected. (I think @David1701 was speaking of this in his post with the Wesley hymn/quote.), that is, body, emotions, will and mind.

So when we are regenerated (when we meet Christ for salvation) not only do we feel different, and choose differntly, but we also see and know differently as well.

 

[CrowCross]

After Regeneration, is there a new kind of knowing? Paul's conversion is recorded like this:
And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized; Acts 9:18.

Here is what @Red Baker had to say in another thread.



Personally, I believe true grace brings a new knowing. The mind is enlighteneed with new thoughts. That old saying, holy affections are not heat without light. They always arise from new information - spiritual instruction that was previously unknown or is now seen in a new light.

I agree as some say, is a gradual process, but this is the working out what God put in. However, I believe from the new birth, we see all things as new. Though, we may notr realize all things right away.

Some people have an instant change...for others it's gradual.

Not everybody has a "Paul like" experience.

 

[Carbon]

Some people have an instant change...for others it's gradual.

Not everybody has a "Paul like" experience.

So regeneration isnt really a radical change? It's just another day or incident that can slowly be developed or realized over time?

I disagree.

 

[Arial]

So regeneration isnt really a radical change? It's just another day or incident that can slowly be developed or realized over time?

I disagree.

One might ask,"How long does it take for God to change a heart?

Another question might be how long does it take for a heart of stone to become a heart shaped and formed by the hand of God?

How radical would such a thing be? Would we notice such a radical change had taken place? Or could/would it be so ineffective as to be kept secret from us?

Is there such a thing as "almost believing"?

 

[CrowCross]

So regeneration isnt really a radical change? It's just another day or incident that can slowly be developed or realized over time?

I disagree.

I will allow you to be wrong. Over the years I have personally witnessed true believers who have been radically changed...and some who have been slowly changed.

 

[Carbon]

One might ask,"How long does it take for God to change a heart?

An instant.

Another question might be how long does it take for a heart of stone to become a heart shaped and formed by the hand of God?

Same.

How radical would such a thing be?

From death to life? Very radical.

Would we notice such a radical change had taken place?

Yes, kinda as you described before (in a different thread) of an infant being born into this new world.

Or could/would it be so ineffective as to be kept secret from us?

Hardly

Is there such a thing as "almost believing"?

Id say, absolutely not.

 

[Carbon]

I will allow you to be wrong. Over the years I have personally witnessed true believers who have been radically changed...and some who have been slowly changed.

Well, I think we are looking at it differently. You're missing what I am saying.

 

[Carbon]

Well, I think we are looking at it differently. You're missing what I am saying.

@CrowCross

Unless you believe the new birth is just something we may not even notice, perhaps never.

 

[fastfredy0]

So regeneration isnt really a radical change? It's just another day or incident that can slowly be developed or realized over time?

I disagree.

I was listening to RC Sproul the other day talking about assurance and he divided people into 4 groups.
1) people not saved and know it
2) people saved and know it
3) people saved and not know it
4) people not saved and not know it

Seems to me people in group "3" didn't receive a "radical change" or they would be assured of their salvation.
Sproul goes on to say he knows the moment he was saved as it was a "radical change", but his wife doesn't know when she was saved suggesting a "non radical change".
I was born surrounded by grand parents, parents, all aunts and uncles being believers so I didn't know to any extent the idea on not believing. I have no clue when I was "regenerated" which, if "radical change" be a 100% certainty then either I forgot the day I radically changed or maybe I haven't be "radically changed/regenerated. (Sure pray it's not the latter)
Aside: Granted, "radical change" has not been defined.
Aside2: I also recall believing with certainty that Santa really existed ....dang Jewish kid next store said Santa was not real and I didn't believe him til I saw an elastic holding up Santa's beard which "radically changed" my opinion. *giggle*

 

[CrowCross]

@CrowCross

Unless you believe the new birth is just something we may not even notice, perhaps never.

I've seen a group of people come forward and accept Jesus....from the group some were jumping around, even appeared "high"...while some of the others were asking, what's next.

 

[CrowCross]

I was listening to RC Sproul the other day talking about assurance and he divided people into 4 groups.
1) people not saved and know it
2) people saved and know it
3) people saved and not know it
4) people not saved and not know it

Seems to me people in group "3" didn't receive a "radical change" or they would be assured of their salvation.
Sproul goes on to say he knows the moment he was saved as it was a "radical change", but his wife doesn't know when she was saved suggesting a "non radical change".
I was born surrounded by grand parents, parents, all aunts and uncles being believers so I didn't know to any extent the idea on not believing. I have no clue when I was "regenerated" which, if "radical change" be a 100% certainty then either I forgot the day I radically changed or maybe I haven't be "radically changed/regenerated. (Sure pray it's not the latter)
Aside: Granted, "radical change" has not been defined.
Aside2: I also recall believing with certainty that Santa really existed ....dang Jewish kid next store said Santa was not real and I didn't believe him til I saw an elastic holding up Santa's beard which "radically changed" my opinion. *giggle*

I know of an individual who was exposed to the gospel and he told me....one day I realized I believe it.

 

[Arial]

An instant.

Same.

From death to life? Very radical.

Yes, kinda as you described before (in a different thread) of an infant being born into this new world.

Hardly

Id say, absolutely not.

Ding ,ding, ding! You have answered correctly and in the only way they can be answered.

 

[Arial]

I was listening to RC Sproul the other day talking about assurance and he divided people into 4 groups.
1) people not saved and know it
2) people saved and know it
3) people saved and not know it
4) people not saved and not know it

Seems to me people in group "3" didn't receive a "radical change" or they would be assured of their salvation.
Sproul goes on to say he knows the moment he was saved as it was a "radical change", but his wife doesn't know when she was saved suggesting a "non radical change".
I was born surrounded by grand parents, parents, all aunts and uncles being believers so I didn't know to any extent the idea on not believing. I have no clue when I was "regenerated" which, if "radical change" be a 100% certainty then either I forgot the day I radically changed or maybe I haven't be "radically changed/regenerated. (Sure pray it's not the latter)
Aside: Granted, "radical change" has not been defined.
Aside2: I also recall believing with certainty that Santa really existed ....dang Jewish kid next store said Santa was not real and I didn't believe him til I saw an elastic holding up Santa's beard which "radically changed" my opinion. *giggle*

Freddy,

Just to let you know---videos are to be posted only in the video section.

 

[Arial]

Not everybody has a "Paul like" experience.

I don't think anyone is saying every experience is like Paul's. A radical change is not synonymous with dramatic change. (In the sense of drama.)

 

[Arial]

I've seen a group of people come forward and accept Jesus....from the group some were jumping around, even appeared "high"...while some of the others were asking, what's next.

That only applies to the point you are making in the discussion if all were born again, or none were born again. Coming forward to accept Jesus is not being born again. If going forward is a result of having been born again, then it is sincere faith.

 

[Arial]

I was born surrounded by grand parents, parents, all aunts and uncles being believers so I didn't know to any extent the idea on not believing. I have no clue when I was "regenerated" which, if "radical change" be a 100% certainty then either I forgot the day I radically changed or maybe I haven't be "radically changed/regenerated. (Sure pray it's not the latter)

Before the days of Finny, that was always the case. There were no altar calls and people grew up in Christian homes and attended churches that actually taught about Jesus. At some point they either believed or didn't believe. Even so---- going from not believing to believing is a radical (extreme) change. It is extreme because it is the difference between life and death. Someone who has always heard the gospel and had it lived out in front of them and in their own lives, may not recognize the moment of change as someone who has never been around it and lived their lives in antipithy of all things Christian and religious. It is also possible that those who grew up in the faith and "always" believed it, were reborn before they ever reached an age of noticing a change.

 

[CrowCross]

That only applies to the point you are making in the discussion if all were born again, or none were born again. Coming forward to accept Jesus is not being born again. If going forward is a result of having been born again, then it is sincere faith.

I have often thought that people get saved....then go forward to say the sinners prayer and accept Christ thinking thats when they got saved.

 

[Arial]

I have often thought that people get saved....then go forward to say the sinners prayer and accept Christ thinking thats when they got saved.

I would venture to say that is true in all cases where a person is actually saved. Saying the prayer does not save. They are told that is what they need to do and so they do it. I was not in a church when I said the prayer, it was not at an altar call, but in a book I was reading I was given the prayer to say---which was invitational as in "I invite you Jesus----" (Really?). And I prefaced my prayer in my mind with "Just in case this is true---". But that is not when I believed. As I said in another thread, that changed in me while I was asleep and was a fact when I awoke. Which startled and thrilled me.

God, fortunately for us all, remembers we are made of dust. He will use even what we have been blindly let do believe about the manner and means of salvation to open the ears of his sheep to hear the voice of the Shepherd and follow him, and their eyes to understand and believe. No matter what---not one will be lost.

 

[Carbon]

I was listening to RC Sproul the other day talking about assurance and he divided people into 4 groups.
1) people not saved and know it
2) people saved and know it
3) people saved and not know it
4) people not saved and not know it

Seems to me people in group "3" didn't receive a "radical change" or they would be assured of their salvation.
Sproul goes on to say he knows the moment he was saved as it was a "radical change", but his wife doesn't know when she was saved suggesting a "non radical change".
I was born surrounded by grand parents, parents, all aunts and uncles being believers so I didn't know to any extent the idea on not believing. I have no clue when I was "regenerated" which, if "radical change" be a 100% certainty then either I forgot the day I radically changed or maybe I haven't be "radically changed/regenerated. (Sure pray it's not the latter)
Aside: Granted, "radical change" has not been defined.
Aside2: I also recall believing with certainty that Santa really existed ....dang Jewish kid next store said Santa was not real and I didn't believe him til I saw an elastic holding up Santa's beard which "radically changed" my opinion. *giggle*

It's amazing, I can always count on you for some good stuff. You always throw some iron out there for me to sharpen with, thanks. And I do love R. C. No matter what I think, when R.C. speaks I always grab my seat and get ready to learn.

But in this case, R.C. is speaking and teaching on assurance. And really he is only talking about two types of people, that's, 2 & 3. Scales have not fallen off the eyes of the people of 1 & 4. So they don't apply to the OP.