Scientist surprised to find Universe larger than they thought..

[Hobie]

This is not surprising except to maybe to the scientist..

"The universe, vast and intricate, holds mysteries that continuously challenge our understanding. A recent study led by the University of Hawaiʻi Institute for Astronomy has uncovered findings that could potentially redefine the boundaries of our cosmic neighborhood.

By studying the movement of thousands of galaxies, researchers are suggesting that our corner of the universe might be far more expansive than previously thought.

An international team, known as the Cosmicflows group, has been analyzing the movements of over 56,000 galaxies. Their work points toward the possibility that the galactic basin containing our Milky Way, named Laniākea, may be part of an even more enormous cosmic structure.

Laniākea, a basin of attraction spanning 500 million light-years, was previously believed to encompass our galactic neighborhood. However, new evidence suggests that this basin may extend into something ten times larger, potentially centered around a region known as the Shapley concentration.

This area is known for its immense mass and gravitational pull, which affects surrounding galaxies. The recent findings, published in Nature Astronomy, indicate a 60% probability that our cosmic basin stretches into this much larger structure.

According to R. Brent Tully, a leading researcher from the University of Hawaiʻi, the universe can be visualized like a giant web, with galaxies spread along filaments and clustering at intersections where gravity pulls them together. "Just as water flows within watersheds, galaxies flow within cosmic basins of attraction," Tully explained.

This idea of larger basins suggests that our understanding of the universe's architecture might need significant revision. Such a shift in perspective would mean that the initial seeds of cosmic structures could be far larger than the current models suggest, reflecting a more expansive interconnected universe.

“This discovery presents a challenge: our cosmic surveys may not yet be large enough to map the full extent of these immense basins,” stated Ehsan Kourkchi, a co-author of the study.

Although modern astronomical tools provide impressive views of the cosmos, there is still a possibility that their reach may be insufficient for capturing the complete picture. Researchers, like Kourkchi, believe we are still seeing the universe with eyes that may not be big enough to grasp its entirety, pushing us to explore even further."
https://www.hawaii.edu/news/2024/09...searchers guided by astronomers at University

 

[EarlyActs]

This is not surprising except to maybe to the scientist..

"The universe, vast and intricate, holds mysteries that continuously challenge our understanding. A recent study led by the University of Hawaiʻi Institute for Astronomy has uncovered findings that could potentially redefine the boundaries of our cosmic neighborhood.

By studying the movement of thousands of galaxies, researchers are suggesting that our corner of the universe might be far more expansive than previously thought.

An international team, known as the Cosmicflows group, has been analyzing the movements of over 56,000 galaxies. Their work points toward the possibility that the galactic basin containing our Milky Way, named Laniākea, may be part of an even more enormous cosmic structure.

Laniākea, a basin of attraction spanning 500 million light-years, was previously believed to encompass our galactic neighborhood. However, new evidence suggests that this basin may extend into something ten times larger, potentially centered around a region known as the Shapley concentration.

This area is known for its immense mass and gravitational pull, which affects surrounding galaxies. The recent findings, published in Nature Astronomy, indicate a 60% probability that our cosmic basin stretches into this much larger structure.

According to R. Brent Tully, a leading researcher from the University of Hawaiʻi, the universe can be visualized like a giant web, with galaxies spread along filaments and clustering at intersections where gravity pulls them together. "Just as water flows within watersheds, galaxies flow within cosmic basins of attraction," Tully explained.

This idea of larger basins suggests that our understanding of the universe's architecture might need significant revision. Such a shift in perspective would mean that the initial seeds of cosmic structures could be far larger than the current models suggest, reflecting a more expansive interconnected universe.

“This discovery presents a challenge: our cosmic surveys may not yet be large enough to map the full extent of these immense basins,” stated Ehsan Kourkchi, a co-author of the study.

Although modern astronomical tools provide impressive views of the cosmos, there is still a possibility that their reach may be insufficient for capturing the complete picture. Researchers, like Kourkchi, believe we are still seeing the universe with eyes that may not be big enough to grasp its entirety, pushing us to explore even further."
https://www.hawaii.edu/news/2024/09/27/cosmic-neighborhood-may-be-10x-larger/#:~:text=A team of international researchers guided by astronomers at University

I research origins and a specific light-year question, and my interest in this is about the speed of God's Biblical 'spreading out' event. I believe this event to be other than the topic of Genesis 1, that is, prior to it, but not much. I have trouble, actually, finding out what conventional science says is the distance from the 'center' of a BB event to our system immediately after the event.

Two things could then have happened: 1, the speed of spreading would slow, 2, the speed would remain constant because of the nature of the vacuum of space.

The higher the speed of a 'spreading out,' the shorter the distance is between that event and our system. As I believe Day 1's light to be starlight, it can help establish how long before Day 1 the conditions of 1:2 lasted (the submerged land, the utter darkness, the Spirit's hovering).

 

[Sereni-tea]

This is not surprising except to maybe to the scientist..

"The universe, vast and intricate, holds mysteries that continuously challenge our understanding. A recent study led by the University of Hawaiʻi Institute for Astronomy has uncovered findings that could potentially redefine the boundaries of our cosmic neighborhood.

By studying the movement of thousands of galaxies, researchers are suggesting that our corner of the universe might be far more expansive than previously thought.

An international team, known as the Cosmicflows group, has been analyzing the movements of over 56,000 galaxies. Their work points toward the possibility that the galactic basin containing our Milky Way, named Laniākea, may be part of an even more enormous cosmic structure.

Laniākea, a basin of attraction spanning 500 million light-years, was previously believed to encompass our galactic neighborhood. However, new evidence suggests that this basin may extend into something ten times larger, potentially centered around a region known as the Shapley concentration.

This area is known for its immense mass and gravitational pull, which affects surrounding galaxies. The recent findings, published in Nature Astronomy, indicate a 60% probability that our cosmic basin stretches into this much larger structure.

According to R. Brent Tully, a leading researcher from the University of Hawaiʻi, the universe can be visualized like a giant web, with galaxies spread along filaments and clustering at intersections where gravity pulls them together. "Just as water flows within watersheds, galaxies flow within cosmic basins of attraction," Tully explained.

This idea of larger basins suggests that our understanding of the universe's architecture might need significant revision. Such a shift in perspective would mean that the initial seeds of cosmic structures could be far larger than the current models suggest, reflecting a more expansive interconnected universe.

“This discovery presents a challenge: our cosmic surveys may not yet be large enough to map the full extent of these immense basins,” stated Ehsan Kourkchi, a co-author of the study.

Although modern astronomical tools provide impressive views of the cosmos, there is still a possibility that their reach may be insufficient for capturing the complete picture. Researchers, like Kourkchi, believe we are still seeing the universe with eyes that may not be big enough to grasp its entirety, pushing us to explore even further."
https://www.hawaii.edu/news/2024/09/27/cosmic-neighborhood-may-be-10x-larger/#:~:text=A team of international researchers guided by astronomers at University

So true. The Hubble Space Telescope provided researchers with a wealth of new information about the universe. Now the James Webb Space telescope is providing so much more. We can only wonder at what the next generations of telescopes will provide researchers. All this data helps to provide a clearer understanding of this vast universe we live in - and glorifies the One who created it all and holds it all in the palm of His hand.

 

[makesends]

I research origins and a specific light-year question, and my interest in this is about the speed of God's Biblical 'spreading out' event. I believe this event to be other than the topic of Genesis 1, that is, prior to it, but not much. I have trouble, actually, finding out what conventional science says is the distance from the 'center' of a BB event to our system immediately after the event.

Two things could then have happened: 1, the speed of spreading would slow, 2, the speed would remain constant because of the nature of the vacuum of space.

The higher the speed of a 'spreading out,' the shorter the distance is between that event and our system. As I believe Day 1's light to be starlight, it can help establish how long before Day 1 the conditions of 1:2 lasted (the submerged land, the utter darkness, the Spirit's hovering).

Intuition tells us there has to be a center, but I've been told repeatedly that the notion of 'center of expansion' is a bogus notion in the context of the the Big Bang and Time/Space expansion.

 

[EarlyActs]

Intuition tells us there has to be a center, but I've been told repeatedly that the notion of 'center of expansion' is a bogus notion in the context of the the Big Bang and Time/Space expansion.

Ok thx. Can you cite an article or do you know why they say that?

 

[Sereni-tea]

Intuition tells us there has to be a center, but I've been told repeatedly that the notion of 'center of expansion' is a bogus notion in the context of the the Big Bang and Time/Space expansion.

Ok thx. Can you cite an article or do you know why they say that?

This indeed seems to be the case as bizarre as it sounds. The Big Bang was not an explosion of matter radiating from a single point, which is usually what people imagine. It was space itself that exploded and it exploded everywhere all at once.
You can read more here.

 

[makesends]

Ok thx. Can you cite an article or do you know why they say that?

No—at least, not off the top of my head. Just some of the people who know more than I do about it, on CF. Frankly, it begins to sound to me like —I don't know what the word is, not New Age jargon, exactly, but... Can't really argue with them, because I don't understand what they are saying.

To my mind, it's a little like what I heard once, somewhere, that they had to use the old math to invent a new math that proves the old math doesn't work. Beats me.

Maybe I'll be more with it after I get some coffee down me.

 

[makesends]

This indeed seems to be the case as bizarre as it sounds. The Big Bang was not an explosion of matter radiating from a single point, which is usually what people imagine. It was space itself that exploded and it exploded everywhere all at once.
You can read more here.

Maybe what you say makes more sense than what I've been told. To me, still, though, if space itself is expanding, what does that even mean? This may help understand what I'm trying to get at: I've been told that the event horizon of a black hole would rip matter that is approaching the black hole apart. But to me, it seems like if, as I have been told, 'reality' (space/time) itself is changing there, matter itself would see no difference, but only those viewing it from 'out here' would see it stretching (compacting?). So, here. If the singularity was the universe, then, were a person able to witness it, it would seem infinitely big at that point. As it expands, (we say), who knows any better, how are we to see it any differently? By the description I get, I have to think that there is no reality outside that expansion. No 3-D grid to measure by, no nothingness, no reality. To me, that makes no sense.

When I hear that scientists have concluded that the universe is larger than they had thought, what does that even mean, really? Is that just shorthand for we have concluded that there is matter and energy beyond what we knew of before?

 

[Sereni-tea]

Maybe what you say makes more sense than what I've been told. To me, still, though, if space itself is expanding, what does that even mean?

It means that this universe we live in is much more complicated that most of us realised.

This may help understand what I'm trying to get at: I've been told that the event horizon of a black hole would rip matter that is approaching the black hole apart. But to me, it seems like if, as I have been told, 'reality' (space/time) itself is changing there, matter itself would see no difference, but only those viewing it from 'out here' would see it stretching (compacting?). So, here. If the singularity was the universe, then, were a person able to witness it, it would seem infinitely big at that point. As it expands, (we say), who knows any better, how are we to see it any differently? By the description I get, I have to think that there is no reality outside that expansion. No 3-D grid to measure by, no nothingness, no reality. To me, that makes no sense.

I am not a physicist and have trouble getting my head around any of this, and certainly do not have enough knowledge that I can explain the science. But I think that we, as 3D creatures, have limitations on what we can measure, observe, understand. When we move beyond 3 dimensions, these things will fail.

When I hear that scientists have concluded that the universe is larger than they had thought, what does that even mean, really? Is that just shorthand for we have concluded that there is matter and energy beyond what we knew of before?

I think it has to do with the curvature of space. The earth looks flat to us standing on the ground, but we know it is curved. If the earth was twice the size it is now, it would have less curvature. The universe looks flat where we are, but it is believed to be curved. But if the data is showing less and less curvature, that means the universe is bigger than we thought. I don't think I explained that well, but hope you get what I am trying to say. And this is just based on my limited understanding, so could be completely wrong.

 

[Hobie]

Intuition tells us there has to be a center, but I've been told repeatedly that the notion of 'center of expansion' is a bogus notion in the context of the the Big Bang and Time/Space expansion.

And who is telling you all this...?

 

[makesends]

And who is telling you all this...?

I don't remember any specifics, other than several posters on CF. Don't know if they are just armchair scientists or what. Seems like I've read it elsewhere, too, but don't remember where.

 

[Hobie]

I don't remember any specifics, other than several posters on CF. Don't know if they are just armchair scientists or what. Seems like I've read it elsewhere, too, but don't remember where.

Need to read your Bible and see what God says rather than man..