Saved in Eternity or at Calvary?

[donadams]

Do you know how to become saved?

Waiting for you to tell me

 

[donadams]

Jesus told the thief on the cross baptism wasn't required. Now, I get it, Jesus didn't come right out and say that....but the thief went to paradise that night...and wasn't baptized.

The new covenant was not in effect either! Heb 9:17

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

 

[donadams]

Eternal life is God's divine life in our human spirit, lost by Adam and re-imparted to us at our rebirth (Jn 3:3-5).

Three kinds of spirit life--human, angelic, divine.

Lost by Adam found by Mary! Lk 1:30

 

[Carbon]

Not explained
What about Matt 24:13

Do you want me to tell you again? Is this some sort of game for you?

 

[donadams]

Do you want me to tell you again? Is this some sort of game for you?

Why not just answer like everyone else

 

[Carbon]

Why not just answer like everyone else

I answered.

 

[GoKart Mozart]

Holy Scripture mentions salvation in past, present and future tense.
I.E. we were saved because of Christ ~2000 years ago, we are being saved, and we hope to be saved at the judgement.
So, the answer can be both (or simply "yes") depending on context.

ref. repentant thief: if there ever was an individual who was crucified with Christ, it was that thief.

 

[Eleanor]

Eternal life is God's divine life in our human spirit, lost by Adam and re-imparted to us at our rebirth (Jn 3:3-5).

Lost by Adam found by Mary! Lk 1:30

Eternal life is not "found," it is imparted at the new birth, which is solely by the sovereign choice of the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:3-5), as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:6-8) and over which we have no more to do than we did our physical birth.

Mary was charitoo (highly favored) in Lk 1:28, as we are likewise charitoo (highly favored) in Eph 1:6.
In neither case does God's great favor involve sinlessness.

 

[Josheb]

Saved in eternity or at Calvary?

Yes

 

[makesends]

I lean towards Calvary (Incarnation) but many lean towards eternity (predestination).
Are you dogmatic or leaning one way or another? Which 'n why?

Are the two incompatible, mutually exclusive?

 

[CrowCross]

Waiting for you to tell me

John 3:16....didn't you know that?

 

[CrowCross]

The new covenant was not in effect either! Heb 9:17

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

No, the thief was saved while hanging on his cross..Jesus said so.
Besides him being saved prior to baptism...several groupss of people were saved in the book of Acts. Saved then baptized.

 

[Mr GLee]

Not explained
What about Matt 24:13

Mathew24 : 8 -10 All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

Mathew 24 :11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

We know they are the beginning of sufferings against false apostles sent with false prophecy (oral traditions of dying mankind) Jesus exposed those who had no faith coming from the a unseen head of the church. The living authority of his written law the sword of the unseen Holy Spirit

Matthew 24:1-4King James Version And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

No sign was given .Believers have prophecy till the end of time. Signs that cause wonders (what is it ?) Manna . .Gods drawing to His word power. . signs for non believers

They that had no faith as it is written in the law and prophets They tried to make jesus a circus seal do a work show us a miracle then when we see it with our own eye then we will believe perhaps , maybe?

The law. . .John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

The testimony John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

They could not see past the tip of their noses No faith coming from God living word working from within .

 

[makesends]

Eternal life is not "found," it is imparted at the new birth, which is solely by the sovereign choice of the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:3-5), as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:6-8) and over which we have more to do than we did our physical birth.

Mary was charitoo (highly favored) in Lk 1:28, as we are likewise charitoo (highly favored) in Eph 1:6.
In neither case does God's great favor involve sinlessness.

Maybe you can get @Arial to add "no" to the phrase, "...and over which we have [no] more to do than we did our physical birth." Sorry I caught it so late.

 

[Arial]

Maybe you can get @Arial to add "no" to the phrase, "...and over which we have [no] more to do than we did our physical birth." Sorry I caught it so late.

Done.

 

[Eleanor]

Maybe you can get @Arial to add "no" to the phrase, "...and over which we have [no] more to do than we did our physical birth." Sorry I caught it so late.

Done.

Many thanks!

It takes two to keep me on track!

 

[prism]

Are the two incompatible, mutually exclusive?

They're compatible, but because of the incarntion (historic event), I can't see...heck, If Scripture clearly stated, I wouldn't be asking. I'm just saying which way I lean according to my finite pea brain.

 

[Josheb]

They're compatible, but because of the incarntion (historic event), I can't see...heck, If Scripture clearly stated, I wouldn't be asking. I'm just saying which way I lean according to my finite pea brain.

The Bible is clear. We are saved. We are being saved, and we will be saved. All three statements can be found in the Bible. Salvation began prior to any of us being created (1 Pet. 1:20). Within history, our salvation began with our conversion from death to life, or regeneration. It continues on through our lifetime (however short or long that may be) and includes the ongoing work of transformation spoken of throughout the NT. Salvation is then completed when we are raised incorruptible and immortal from the grave. Saved at Calvary. Saved in eternity. Saved along the way many times in many ways along the way.

Technically, eternity is timeless so Calvary (and every other point in time) is simply a subset of eternity.

 

[prism]

The Bible is clear. We are saved. We are being saved, and we will be saved. All three statements can be found in the Bible. Salvation began prior to any of us being created (1 Pet. 1:20). Within history, our salvation began with our conversion from death to life, or regeneration. It continues on through our lifetime (however short or long that may be) and includes the ongoing work of transformation spoken of throughout the NT. Salvation is then completed when we are raised incorruptible and immortal from the grave. Saved at Calvary. Saved in eternity. Saved along the way many times in many ways along the way.

Technically, eternity is timeless so Calvary (and every other point in time) is simply a subset of eternity.

So are you saying salvation is a continuum?
Are the salvific events in that continuum linear or simultaneous?

 

[Josheb]

So are you saying salvation is a continuum?

I am telling you what scripture tells us.

Anyone with an e-version of the Bible can search the three tenses, "are saved, "being saved," and "Will be saved," in the Bible and find all three. Given that fact, pitting any one of the three against the others is 1) unscriptural and 2) irrational and 3) it will lead to bad soteriology.

Are the salvific events in that continuum linear or simultaneous?

Yes. LOL!

How long does it take God to bring a dead person to life? When Jesus says, "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes in Him who sent me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life," how long does that take? Most people understand being "born again" or being born anew from above is something done by God because a sinner cannot rebirth himself, especially not from "above." It is the Spirit that give birth to spirit. How long, then, does it take God to born again a person. Can He do it in a second? Does it take three seconds? 60 seconds? 479 seconds? Does it take as long to birth anew a person from above by the Spirit as long as it takes to birth a person according to the flesh?

Since the "salvific events" (otherwise called the ordo salutis) contains A LOT more than just regeneration or conversion and it does not conclude, as I mentioned previously, until we reach the other side of the grave, we necessarily understand salvation is decided by God, decided before creation, happens within the bounds of temporal history but reaches beyond the grave, and few if any of its constituents are discrete. They all overlap. As a whole, salvation is by grace through faith and not over ourselves. We are His workmanship, created in Christ to do good works God planned for us to perform before He saved us. You will notice that link lists four different ordo salutis "schemes." You'll also observe none of them include "purpose." Neither do any of them include "works." How is it an ordo salutis does not include the purpose of the ordo when scripture is so plain about that matter? Notice three of the four conclude with "Glorification." We would, of course, want to examine each schemes view of glorification on its own merits as asserted by those subscribing to any given scheme, but surely we can agree God is glorified now, as He works in us to will and work for His good pleasure and God is also glorified by the finished product.