Saved by Grace doesn't mean our works don't matter. Ephesian's over all context screams this.

[Arial]

When did it get changed from justified to saved?

Justification to salvation?

My post that you are quoting was in response to a poster who said total depravity was being discussed in this thread. Which is not true.

You respond with yet another non-sequitur, to the OP, and to the post you are responding to.

 

[Arial]

Monergism only to point then somebody’s got to do something!

God can give Noah the free gift of knowledge that He is going to destroy everything by flood but at some point Noah and his boys better start cutting down Timbers and start building a boat!

And we are told to work out our own salvation

So---you do not believe that if God ordains us to good works and to being conformed to the image of Christ, He is also able to do in us what He ordained? Even though He says He will?

Eph 2:10 For we are HIS workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Keep in mind, that is written to Christians, those who have already been saved by grace and through faith----those created In Christ for good works.

Phil2:12-13 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed,so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

This does not mean we can lose our salvation, and it does not mean that we do not already have it. It means, that we live according to our calling, doing what pleases God. And we learn what pleases God from His word. It is God working in us that causes us to want to do this.

Heb 13:20-21 Now may the God of peace who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, by the blood of the eternal covenant, equip you with everything good that you may do His will, working in us that which is pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever.Amen.

 

[donadams]

So---you do not believe that if God ordains us to good works and to being conformed to the image of Christ, He is also able to do in us what He ordained? Even though He says He will?

Eph 2:10 For we are HIS workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Keep in mind, that is written to Christians, those who have already been saved by grace and through faith----those created In Christ for good works.

Phil2:12-13 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed,so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

This does not mean we can lose our salvation, and it does not mean that we do not already have it. It means, that we live according to our calling, doing what pleases God. And we learn what pleases God from His word. It is God working in us that causes us to want to do this.

Heb 13:20-21 Now may the God of peace who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, by the blood of the eternal covenant, equip you with everything good that you may do His will, working in us that which is pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever.Amen.

Mk 4:3 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:

4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.

5 And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:

6 But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.

7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.

8 And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.

9 And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.

11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

14 The sower soweth the word.

15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;

17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,

19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

20 And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

All had faith!

Are all saved?
Do we need to participate?
Does grace grow (increase) by good works unto bearing fruit?

Thks

 

[Arial]

Mk 4:3 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:

14 The sower soweth the word.

11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

What is Jesus teaching here? What is this teaching about? Is He teaching the doctrine that we can lose our salvation? Or is He teaching what He said He was teaching? "Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God."

What was it that was so difficult to understand? Christians are able to understand it because we have the whole story, unless they let presuppositions get in the way and use the entire parable as a proof text (as you did) to say we can lose our salvation or that our salvation is dependent on the good works that we do over a lifetime, and therefore uncertain.

But those who were hearing Him, did not have the whole story because it had not played out yet in His death, resurrection, and ascension.

Nevertheless, it says clearly that only some understand the word, the gospel and who Jesus is and what He accomplished, (not the parable,) even though it is freely and openly preached. Who are the some who do understand and believe the gospel? Those within as opposed to those without the kingdom. Now, since everyone begins outside the kingdom, those within must be one's God has ordained to be in His kingdom. When they hear, they believe. Those without, hear but do not believe. Therefore---

20 And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

The good ground is the soil that God has prepared to receive the word with faith and to bear the fruit of faith. Therefore---

All had faith!

Are all saved?
Do we need to participate?
Does grace grow (increase) by good works unto bearing fruit?

none of the above are true. It is a misunderstanding of the parable due to incorrect teaching.

They did not all have faith, the faith that God gives unto salvation. That faith that penetrates the very heart of a person in such dramatic fashion as to turn a heart at enmity with God, to a heart that worships Him as King and sovereign. If they had that faith, nothing would be able to separate them from Christ (Rom 8). What they had was just head knowledge that they gave a nod to for awhile. The soil the word landed on was not good soil.

The believer does not participate in his salvation, he participates in his life, as a child of God. Good works does not increase the grace of salvation, they bear witness of that grace. There is a distinction between saving grace, and graces given from the fountain of grace, for specific purposes. And that is so we learn that everything we have and need is provided by the God of all grace, recognize when we need it, and ask Him for it. It is a part of our continuous sanctification. So we learn that we are able to come boldly before His throne of grace and mercy, to receive grace and mercy in our time of need. And when is our time of need? Always. And who is on that throne but the risen Christ, full of grace and mercy.

 

[Ladodgers6]

Who says that our works don't matter?

Why people place more emphasis on our works instead on Christ's finished works is beyond me. Our works or good deeds we do as believer stem from our Justification in Christ Alone. He is the true vine, which we are engrafted through Faith Alone. As believing sinners we offer nothing and have nothing but receive everything through Faith Alone because of Christ Alone! His heavenly blessings that he merited through his perfect righteousness and holiness becomes ours through Faith Alone! Our good deeds as believers are not without sin, but are acceptable to God because of Christ. But these good deeds do not contribute to our justification before God. The only works worthy to be accepted by God are flawless works without a shred of sin to them. And only Christ has perform such obedience. And it's this obedient righteousness that is imputed or given to us as of we performed themselves ourselves which is only received through Faith Alone; meaning we trust in who Jesus is and his finished works, and trust God's promise in that he justifies the ungodly who believe him and his word Alone!​

 

[makesends]

Why people place more emphasis on our works instead on Christ's finished works is beyond me. Our works or good deeds we do as believer stem from our Justification in Christ Alone. He is the true vine, which we are engrafted through Faith Alone. As believing sinners we offer nothing and have nothing but receive everything through Faith Alone because of Christ Alone! His heavenly blessings that he merited through his perfect righteousness and holiness becomes ours through Faith Alone! Our good deeds as believers are not without sin, but are acceptable to God because of Christ. But these good deeds do not contribute to our justification before God. The only works worthy to be accepted by God are flawless works without a shred of sin to them. And only Christ has perform such obedience. And it's this obedient righteousness that is imputed or given to us as if we performed themselves ourselves which is only received through Faith Alone; meaning we trust in who Jesus is and his finished works, and trust God's promise in that he justifies the ungodly who believe him and his word Alone!​

Agreed, and AMEN! In fact, even the "Faith Alone" you mentioned "because of Christ Alone" is GIVEN TO us, and is not of our own derivation. Salvific Faith is not an act of the will, but results in acts of the will (works) in keeping with that faith.

 

[Mr GLee]

I would offer .Christ's labor of love as a work of his faith . . . is never alone. It is always accompanied with and the testimony "it was God alone good"

The law of faith let there be and by the power of faith, it was God alone good. Altogether the let and there was . . one work

It is that faith (Christ's ) that we are warned not to have in respect to dying mankind seen, according to the warning in James 2

James 2King James Version My brethren, have not the faith (Power of God) of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons(dying mankind ).

Called blasphemy verse 7

The same same labor of Christ that worked in Abraham as well as Rehab . . . not of thier own self ( dead faith) It cries out but no answer

James 2:22-25 Seest thou how faith (Christ's) wrought with his works, and by works (let there be) was faith made perfect ?And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

He gives us little of his mighty faith and calls his children "Ye of little faith" . Enough to please him who works in us

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

 

[makesends]

Then continuing, and in the same context, chapter 5 starts with be therefore imitators of God, and walk in love. Not letting fornication,uncleanness and covetousness be named among us but be as saints.

Curious about your theology/demonimation. Why do you say, "...be as saints."? And which version puts it that way?

 

[Josheb]

Curious about your theology/demonimation. Why do you say, "...be as saints."? And which version puts it that way?

I do not see that he is responding further in this op. A number of folks have asked questions (like, "Who says works don't matter?") and none have been answered. Apparently. the op was posted for others to either accept as posted or discuss without its author. A cursory view of his positions can be found by perusing his posts (HERE). Regardless of his pov, until there is some evidence proving there exists some who think works wholly immaterial or specifies the type of irrelevant works and those holding that view, the op is a red herring (a dissent from non-existent people).

 

[HIM]

So, Then continuing, and in the same context, chapter 5 starts with be therefore imitators of God, and walk in love. Not letting fornication,uncleanness and covetousness be named among us but be as saints.

Curious about your theology/demonimation. Why do you say, "...be as saints."? And which version puts it that way?

That is what was received by the word becometh.
Eph 5:3 (KJV) But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

The citation from the LSJ lexicon agrees with what was recieved when we read the text and shared. See below, there are several resources shared for all to clearly see.

The Greek word means fitting to, becometh, suitable, proper, resemble, clearly seen, Being etc...

The clause is in present tense indicative mood, Dative case. So a direct translation would be...
Eph 5:3 πορνεία δὲ But Fornication καὶ And πᾶσα All ἀκαθαρσία Uncleanness ἢ Or πλεονεξία Covetousness μηδὲ Not Even ὀνομαζέσθω Be Named ἐν IN ὑμῖν You, καθὼς Even As πρέπει Is Becoming ἁγίοις To Saints;

AMG:
πρέπω,
[in LXX: Psa 93:5 (H4998 נָאָה pi.), etc.;]
1. to be clearly seen.
2. to resemble.
3. to be fitting or becoming, to suit: c. dat., Heb 7:26, 1Ti 2:10, Tit 2:1; impers., c. dat., Eph 5:3; id. seq. inf., Heb 2:10; πρέπον ἐστίν, c. dat. pers. et inf., Mat 3:15; c. acc et inf., 1Co 11:13 (v. Bl., § 72, 5).†

BDAG:

πρέπω (Hom.+ in var. senses) be fitting, be seemly/suitable (Pind.+) impf. 3 sing. ἔπρεπεν: τοιοῦτος ἡμῖν ἔπρεπεν ἀρχιερεύς it was fitting that we should have such a high priest Hb 7:26. Cp. 1 Ti 2:10; Tit 2:1. μηδὲν ὑμῖν πρεπέτω let nothing be pleasing to you IEph 11:2.—The impers. constr. πρέπει τινί it is fitting for someone (X., Hell. 4, 1, 37; TestAbr B 14 p. 119, 3 [Stone p. 86] αὐτῷ πρέπει δόξα; ApcEsdr 7:16; ApcMos 43) καθὼς πρέπει ἁγίοις Eph 5:3. ὡς πρέπει ἀγαπῶντι B 4:9. W. dat. and inf. foll. (Chariton 7, 6, 12; Philo, Leg. All. 1, 48 πρέπει τῷ θεῷ φυτεύειν) Hb 2:10; IEph 4:1; IMg 3:1; ITr 12:2; IPol 5:2. W. inf. foll., in which case the dat. is to be supplied ISm 11:2; IPol 7:2.—πρέπον ἐστίν it is fitting, proper, right (POxy. 120, 24 ὡς πρέπον ἐστίν; 1 Macc 12:11; 3 Macc 7:13; Just., A I, 3, 1) w. dat. of pers. and inf. foll. (Isocr., Ep. 5, 3) Mt 3:15; IRo 10:2; IPhld 10:1. W. inf. foll. and dat. to be supplied IEph 2:2; IMg 3:2; 4:1; ISm 7:2. W. acc. and inf. foll. (Lysias 19, 59) 1 Cor 11:13.—MPohlenz, Τὸ πρέπον: NGG ’33, 53–92.—B. 641. DELG. M-M.

Thayer:
πρέπω; imperfect 3 person singular ἔπρεπε;
1. to stand out, to be conspicuous, to be eminent; so from Homer, Iliad 12, 104 down.
2. to be becoming, seemly, fit (from Pindar, Aeschylus, Herodotus down): πρέπει τίνι with a subject nominative, Heb 7:26 (Psa 32:1 (Psa 33:1); ὁ or ἅ πρέπει, which becometh, befitteth, 1Ti 2:10; Tit 2:1; impersonally, καθώς πρέπει τίνι, Eph 5:3; πρέπον ἐστιν followed by the infinitive, Mat 3:15; Heb 2:10; followed by an accusative with the infinitive 1Co 11:13. On its construction cf. Alexander Buttmann (1873) sec. 142, 2.*

Strong:
G4241
πρέπω
prépō
prepo
DEF :
1) to stand out, to be conspicuous, to be eminent
2) to be becoming, seemly, fit
PS : Verb
STR : Apparently a primary verb; to tower up (be conspicuous), that is, (by implication) to be suitable or proper (third person singular present indicative, often used impersonally, it is fit or right).

LSJ:
πρέπ-ω , impf. ἔπρεπον, which were the tenses chiefly in use: fut. πρέψω A. Eu. 995 (anap.), Pl. Plt. 269c , 288c : aor. ἔπρεψα Id. Chrm. 158c : — prop. of impressions on the senses, 1 on the eye, to be clearly seen, to be conspicuous among a number, ὁ δ' ἔπρεπε καὶ διὰ πάντων Il. 12.104 ; μετὰ δὲ π. ἀγρομένοισιν Od. 8.172 , Hes. Th. 92 ; to be distinguished in or by a thing, φάρεσιν μελαγχίμοις A. Ch. 12 , cf. Th. 124 (lyr.), E. Alc. 512 , 1050 ; π. παρηῒς φοινίοις ἀμυγμοῖς A. Ch. 24 (lyr.); shine forth, show itself, πειρῶντι χρυσὸς ἐν βασάνῳ π. Pi. P. 10.67 ; πανσέληνος ἐν σάκει π. A. Th. 390 , cf. Pers. 239 (troch.), Ag. 389 (lyr.); πρέπουσά θ' ὡς ἐν γραφαῖς ib. 242 (lyr.); ἐπί τοι πρέπει ὄμμασιν αἰδώς h.Cer. 214 ; Ζεὺς πρέπων δι' αἰθέρος E. Hel. 216 (lyr.): sts. c. part. , to be clearly seen as doing or being, ὁ φρυκτὸς ἀγγέλλων πρέπει A. Ag. 30 ; σπλάγχνα . . πρέπουσ' ἔχοντες ib. 1222 , cf. Eu. 995 (anap.).
2. on the ear, βοὰ π. the cry sounds loud and clear, Pi. N. 3.67 , cf. A. Ag. 321 .
3. on the smell, to be strong or rank, ὅμοιος ἀτμὸς ὥσπερ ἐκ τάφου π. ib. 1311 . II to be conspicuously like, resemble, π. τινὶ εἶδος to be like one in form, Pi. P. 2.38 ; πρέποντα . . ταύρῳ δέμας A. Supp. 301 ; εἴ τι σῇ δοκεῖ πρέπειν γυναικί E. Alc. 1121 ; πρέπεις . . θυγατέρων μορφὴν μιᾷ Id. Ba. 917 : c. inf. , τοῦδε γὰρ δράμημα φωτὸς Περσικὸν πρέπει μαθεῖν his running is like Persian to behold, A. Pers. 247 , cf. Supp. 719 ; more freq. with ὡς or ὥστε, πρέπει ὡς τύραννος εἰσορᾶν S. El. 664 ; ὡς πένθιμος πρέπεις ὁρᾶν E. Supp. 1056 ; πρέπει γ' ὥστε θὴρ ἄγραυλος φόβῃ Id. Ba. 1188 (lyr.). III to be conspicuously fitting, beseem, c. dat. pers., θνατὰ θνατοῖσι πρέπει Pi. I. 5(4).16 ; τοῖς ὀλβίοις γε καὶ τὸ νικᾶσθαι πρέπει A. Ag. 941 , cf. Pl. Chrm. 158c , etc.; with Preps., ποῦ τάδ' ἐν χρηστοῖς πρέπει; E. Heracl. 510 ; οἷα δὴ εἰς πλῆθος πρέπει X. Cyr. 2.1.24 : c. part. , ὅ τι γιγνόμενον ἂν πρέποι Pl. Epin. 976c , cf. Plt. 269c , 288c ; πρέποι γὰρ ἂν (sc. λεχθεῖσα ) Id. Sph. 219c .
2. freq. in part. , ὕμνοι πρέποντες γάμοις Id. R. 460a , etc.; esp. in part. neut., πρέπον τε εἶναι καὶ ἁρμόττειν Id. Grg. 503e ; ἤν τι ἄλλο π. δοκῇ εἶναι Th. 6.25 ; τὸ π. τῇ γραφῇ Plb. 2.40.3 : rarely c. gen., π. ἦν δαίμονος τοὐμοῦ τόδε S. Aj. 534 , cf. Plu. Caes. 14 , Thom.Mag. p.306R. ; τὸ π. that which is seemly, propriety, Pl. Hp.Ma. 294a ; πρὸς τὸ μέτριον καὶ τὸ π. Id. Plt. 284e , etc.: pl., πρέποντα πάσχειν Antipho 3.3.9 ; πρέποντα τῇ συγγενείᾳ ποιοῦντες Isoc. 10.23 .
3. rarely with personal subject, πρέπων ἔφυς πρὸ τῶνδε φωνεῖν art the fit person to . . , S. OT 9 ; Πομπήϊος . . πάνυ τοῖς ἔπεσι πρέπων suiting them, Plu. Pomp. 72 , cf. Publ. 17 .
4. mostly impers., πρέπει it is fitting, both of outward circumstances and moral fitness, c. dat. pers. et inf. , Hdt. 9.79 , etc.; οὐ πρέπει νῷν . . δάσασθαι Pi. P. 4.147 ; πρέπει ἐσλοῖσιν ὑμνεῖσθαι Id. Fr. 121 , cf. A. Ag. 483 (lyr.), E. Hipp. 115 , etc.: with inf. unexpressed, πρέπει γοῦν σοι [ἀποκρίνεσθαι ] X. HG 4.1.37 . c. acc. pers. et inf. , πρέπει τὸν Αἰνησιδάμου ἐγκωμίων τε μελέων λυρᾶν τε τυγχανέμεν Pi. O. 2.46 , cf. A. Supp. 203 , S. Tr. 728 , Th. 1.86 , etc. c. inf. only, πρέπει γαρυέμεν Pi. N. 7.82 , cf. P. 5.43 , A. Th. 656 , Ag. 636 , etc. with inf. understood, an acc. may be subject, ἀπήλλαξαν οὕτω ὡς κείνους ἔπρεπε Hdt. 8.68 . α', cf. A. Supp. 195 , Pl. Prt. 312b ; or object, τείσασθαι οὕτως, ὡς κείνους [τείσασθαι] πρέπει Hdt. 4.139 ; so with dat. of indirect object, Id. 8.114 . trans., liken, τινί τι A. Ag. 1328 (ap. Phot. ).

 

[HIM]

I do not see that he is responding further in this op. A number of folks have asked questions (like, "Who says works don't matter?") and none have been answered. Apparently. the op was posted for others to either accept as posted or discuss without its author. A cursory view of his positions can be found by perusing his posts (HERE). Regardless of his pov, until there is some evidence proving there exists some who think works wholly immaterial or specifies the type of irrelevant works and those holding that view, the op is a red herring (a dissent from non-existent people).

Another contentious post. There is a lot of this type of posting here, that is why we don't spend much time here and our responses our limited. Prayerfully one will see this fault and repent.

 

[Josheb]

Another contentious post. There is a lot of this type of posting here, that is why we don't spend much time here and our responses our limited. Prayerfully one will see this fault and repent.

What say everybody? Is Post #69 contentious?

 

[HIM]

What say everybody? Is Post #69 contentious?

Everybody is a large group. Once everybody shows up we can weigh that matter lol. In this, We imagine your fanfare might respond and assert your position. Prayerfully they will ignore this nonsense that you are purporting. Because At the end of it all who cares what everybody says. As if the click was ever right in their posturing.


Below you said I have not answered any questions. Yet I have, just not all. That fabrication is contentious.

Which has nothing to do I do not see that he is responding further in this op. A number of folks have asked questions (like, "Who says works don't matter?") and none have been answered.

Below you make a subjective commit in respect to my intentions. That is contentious.

Apparently. the op was posted for others to either accept as posted or discuss without its author. A cursory view of his positions can be found by perusing his posts (HERE).

Wherein the OP is not about those whom think works don't matter. You chose to pinpoint that one comment and ignore the actually premise of it all. And then go on to say the OP is a red herring. That commit is contentious.

Being that we are raised in a Narcissistic society that nurtures such, I can't imagine you will see.

Regardless of his pov, until there is some evidence proving there exists some who think works wholly immaterial or specifies the type of irrelevant works and those holding that view, the op is a red herring (a dissent from non-existent people).

 

[Josheb]

Everybody is a large group. Once everybody shows up we can weigh that matter lol. In this, We imagine your fanfare might respond and assert your position. Prayerfully they will ignore this nonsense that you are purporting. Because At the end of it all who cares what everybody says. As if the click was ever right in their posturing.


Below you said I have not answered any questions. Yet I have, just not all. That fabrication is contentious.

Below you make a subjective commit in respect to my intentions. That is contentious.




Wherein the OP is not about those whom think works don't matter. You chose to pinpoint that one comment and ignore the actually premise of it all. And then go on to say the OP is a red herring. That commit is contentious.

Being that we are raised in a Narcissistic society that nurtures such, I can't imagine you will see.

Have you got anything op-relevant to post?

Multiple posters have replied to this op and not one of them has been given the respect or courtesy of a response. Instead, the ONLY posts subsequent to the op are posts 70, 71, and 73, none of which speaks to the main issue I and others have broached. I know you do not like it when I point out these things but off-topically labeling post #69 contentious proves the point being made! Your best play is to respond to others' posts op relevantly and prove you can and will address what others have said and asked without off-topic commentary.

• Go back to post 2 and address @Fred's point op-relevantly.
• Go back to post 3 and answer @makesends' question. Multiple posters (@Carbon, @Papa Smurf, and myself) asked the same question, and none have been answered.
• Go back to post 6 and address @Hodgie's observation (it is a very good, valid, and response-worth op-relevant observation).
• Go back to post 7 and address @donadams' comments.
• Go back to post 9 and address @Soyeong's commentary.
• Go back to post 10 and address the indisputable fact the saved are created in Christ specifically for the purpose of doing good works and those good works were planned for us to be performed before we were saved.
• Look at your own contribution to the discussion and see that post 71 is a lot of words. The point could have been made in a sentence or two and everything posted after # 71 is off-topic and hypocritically contentious.
• Take a cue from posts 57 and 66 where it was demonstrated cogent, engaged, and appreciated discourse can be had with me, even if and when we disagree. I can assure you: if you show up for the discussion and you stay on topic then you and I will not have any problems. We may still disagree, but there will not be any contentiousness.

Romans 7:15-17
For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

Join the discussion.

Until you do Post 69 is correct. When I read some evidence the op has been engaged and the replies addressed, then I will gladly commend your effort doing so.

 

[Josheb]

Wherein the OP is not about those whom think works don't matter. You chose to pinpoint that one comment and ignore the actually premise of it all. And then go on to say the OP is a red herring. That commit is contentious.

Let's not single me out. Four different posters asked the exact same question. Are all four of them being contentious? Two posters other than I affirmed the appraisal of the op as a red herring unless and until some group is identified as not thinking works are irrelevant. Are those two posters also being contentious? Is everyone here but you contentious?

What, exactly, do you think is the proper response when multiple posters reply to an op and begin wondering why there is no response?

I do not see that he is responding further in this op.

That is a statement of fact. There is nothing contentious about it, in and of itself.

A number of folks have asked questions (like, "Who says works don't matter?") and none have been answered.

That too is a statement of fact.

Apparently[,] the op was posted for others to either accept as posted or discuss without its author.

That too is a statement of fact given a lack of any evidence to the contrary. We're left to discuss this op among ourselves.

A cursory view of his positions can be found by perusing his posts (HERE).

That too is a statement of fact. The best way to discern another's position(s) is to examine that individual's own posts. It's not okay for one poster to speak for another, tell third parties what someone else believes. I did you a service and it was read as contention.

Regardless of his pov, until there is some evidence proving there exists some who think works wholly immaterial or specifies the type of irrelevant works and those holding that view, the op is a red herring (a dissent from non-existent people).

That, too is a statement of fact.

Wherein the OP is not about those whom think works don't matter.

Well, let's see.... the title of the op explicitly states,

"Saved By Grace Doesn't Mean Our Works Don't Matter Ephesians Over-All Context"

Everyone here, including me agrees: works do matter but they are not causal to salvation. AND four posters, not just me, asked YOU who it is that thinks works do not matter? If there are no people who think works don't matter then why mention it at all? If there are people who think that way then who are they because they are not anyone here in this thread and multiple posters want to know!!! If the op is not about those who think works don't matter then the best response to clarify the op, not accuse others of contentiousness.

Apparently, the op was posted for others to either accept as posted or discuss without its author.

Join the discussion of this op. It's yours to yours to assert, yours to prove, yours to clarify, and all yours to amend should what others bring to bear on it prompt any such need. Only you can do that, and that is not happening.



I'm going to bookmark Posts 69 and 71 so that the next time you post an op and do not discuss its contents it can be shown the next time is not the first time and you attack others for simply asking for your participation discussing your own ops.

There is a lot of this type of posting here, that is why we don't spend much time here and our responses our limited.

You have the power to change that and do not use it. You gaslight others and that's not okay. All that was asked was some participation in your own ops.

Apparently, the op was posted for others to either accept as posted or discuss without its author.

...and, so far, it's looking like Post 69 is 100% correct. The op was posted for others to accept as posted or discuss without its author..... because the author believes there is a lot of "this type" of posting here and that's why they don't spend much time here and responses are limited.

That, btw, is not something we did not already know. Here's an earlier example. Many threads end without much if any discussion, like HERE, and HERE, and HERE, and HERE, and HERE, and it is NOT because others are contentious. We are NOT ignorant of your limited time, or any reluctance to engage discussion and/or disagreement. We're all aware any hint disagreement is likely to be perceived as "contention". Pease do not put that dross on us again. As I said, your own posts speak for themselves.

If you're going to post in a discussion board then do so with some expectation the op will be discussed, and others will hope you will participate. People discuss things in a discussion board. That is why the boards exist. If you're not going to discuss your own ops then don't be unkind when people observe the obvious...

Apparently, the op was posted for others to either accept as posted or discuss without its author.

.....but the author is invited to do otherwise. You are invited to discuss your own ops because Everyone here so far has tried to engage this op with you and been ignored (except to be accused of contentiousness).


Please join the discussion.

 

[HIM]

So, Then continuing, and in the same context, chapter 5 starts with be therefore imitators of God, and walk in love. Not letting fornication,uncleanness and covetousness be named among us but be as saints.

Curious about your theology/demonimation. Why do you say, "...be as saints."? And which version puts it that way?

That is what was received by the word becometh.
Eph 5:3 (KJV) But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

The citation from the LSJ lexicon agrees with what was recieved when we read the text and shared. See below, there are several resources shared for all to clearly see.

The Greek word means fitting to, becometh, suitable, proper, resemble, clearly seen, Being etc...

The clause is in present tense indicative mood, Dative case. So a direct translation would be...
Eph 5:3 πορνεία δὲ But Fornication καὶ And πᾶσα All ἀκαθαρσία Uncleanness ἢ Or πλεονεξία Covetousness μηδὲ Not Even ὀνομαζέσθω Be Named ἐν IN ὑμῖν You, καθὼς Even As πρέπει Is Becoming ἁγίοις To Saints;

AMG:
πρέπω,
[in LXX: Psa 93:5 (H4998 נָאָה pi.), etc.;]
1. to be clearly seen.
2. to resemble.
3. to be fitting or becoming, to suit: c. dat., Heb 7:26, 1Ti 2:10, Tit 2:1; impers., c. dat., Eph 5:3; id. seq. inf., Heb 2:10; πρέπον ἐστίν, c. dat. pers. et inf., Mat 3:15; c. acc et inf., 1Co 11:13 (v. Bl., § 72, 5).†

BDAG:

πρέπω (Hom.+ in var. senses) be fitting, be seemly/suitable (Pind.+) impf. 3 sing. ἔπρεπεν: τοιοῦτος ἡμῖν ἔπρεπεν ἀρχιερεύς it was fitting that we should have such a high priest Hb 7:26. Cp. 1 Ti 2:10; Tit 2:1. μηδὲν ὑμῖν πρεπέτω let nothing be pleasing to you IEph 11:2.—The impers. constr. πρέπει τινί it is fitting for someone (X., Hell. 4, 1, 37; TestAbr B 14 p. 119, 3 [Stone p. 86] αὐτῷ πρέπει δόξα; ApcEsdr 7:16; ApcMos 43) καθὼς πρέπει ἁγίοις Eph 5:3. ὡς πρέπει ἀγαπῶντι B 4:9. W. dat. and inf. foll. (Chariton 7, 6, 12; Philo, Leg. All. 1, 48 πρέπει τῷ θεῷ φυτεύειν) Hb 2:10; IEph 4:1; IMg 3:1; ITr 12:2; IPol 5:2. W. inf. foll., in which case the dat. is to be supplied ISm 11:2; IPol 7:2.—πρέπον ἐστίν it is fitting, proper, right (POxy. 120, 24 ὡς πρέπον ἐστίν; 1 Macc 12:11; 3 Macc 7:13; Just., A I, 3, 1) w. dat. of pers. and inf. foll. (Isocr., Ep. 5, 3) Mt 3:15; IRo 10:2; IPhld 10:1. W. inf. foll. and dat. to be supplied IEph 2:2; IMg 3:2; 4:1; ISm 7:2. W. acc. and inf. foll. (Lysias 19, 59) 1 Cor 11:13.—MPohlenz, Τὸ πρέπον: NGG ’33, 53–92.—B. 641. DELG. M-M.

Thayer:
πρέπω; imperfect 3 person singular ἔπρεπε;
1. to stand out, to be conspicuous, to be eminent; so from Homer, Iliad 12, 104 down.
2. to be becoming, seemly, fit (from Pindar, Aeschylus, Herodotus down): πρέπει τίνι with a subject nominative, Heb 7:26 (Psa 32:1 (Psa 33:1); ὁ or ἅ πρέπει, which becometh, befitteth, 1Ti 2:10; Tit 2:1; impersonally, καθώς πρέπει τίνι, Eph 5:3; πρέπον ἐστιν followed by the infinitive, Mat 3:15; Heb 2:10; followed by an accusative with the infinitive 1Co 11:13. On its construction cf. Alexander Buttmann (1873) sec. 142, 2.*

Strong:
G4241
πρέπω
prépō
prepo
DEF :
1) to stand out, to be conspicuous, to be eminent
2) to be becoming, seemly, fit
PS : Verb
STR : Apparently a primary verb; to tower up (be conspicuous), that is, (by implication) to be suitable or proper (third person singular present indicative, often used impersonally, it is fit or right).

LSJ:
πρέπ-ω , impf. ἔπρεπον, which were the tenses chiefly in use: fut. πρέψω A. Eu. 995 (anap.), Pl. Plt. 269c , 288c : aor. ἔπρεψα Id. Chrm. 158c : — prop. of impressions on the senses, 1 on the eye, to be clearly seen, to be conspicuous among a number, ὁ δ' ἔπρεπε καὶ διὰ πάντων Il. 12.104 ; μετὰ δὲ π. ἀγρομένοισιν Od. 8.172 , Hes. Th. 92 ; to be distinguished in or by a thing, φάρεσιν μελαγχίμοις A. Ch. 12 , cf. Th. 124 (lyr.), E. Alc. 512 , 1050 ; π. παρηῒς φοινίοις ἀμυγμοῖς A. Ch. 24 (lyr.); shine forth, show itself, πειρῶντι χρυσὸς ἐν βασάνῳ π. Pi. P. 10.67 ; πανσέληνος ἐν σάκει π. A. Th. 390 , cf. Pers. 239 (troch.), Ag. 389 (lyr.); πρέπουσά θ' ὡς ἐν γραφαῖς ib. 242 (lyr.); ἐπί τοι πρέπει ὄμμασιν αἰδώς h.Cer. 214 ; Ζεὺς πρέπων δι' αἰθέρος E. Hel. 216 (lyr.): sts. c. part. , to be clearly seen as doing or being, ὁ φρυκτὸς ἀγγέλλων πρέπει A. Ag. 30 ; σπλάγχνα . . πρέπουσ' ἔχοντες ib. 1222 , cf. Eu. 995 (anap.).
2. on the ear, βοὰ π. the cry sounds loud and clear, Pi. N. 3.67 , cf. A. Ag. 321 .
3. on the smell, to be strong or rank, ὅμοιος ἀτμὸς ὥσπερ ἐκ τάφου π. ib. 1311 . II to be conspicuously like, resemble, π. τινὶ εἶδος to be like one in form, Pi. P. 2.38 ; πρέποντα . . ταύρῳ δέμας A. Supp. 301 ; εἴ τι σῇ δοκεῖ πρέπειν γυναικί E. Alc. 1121 ; πρέπεις . . θυγατέρων μορφὴν μιᾷ Id. Ba. 917 : c. inf. , τοῦδε γὰρ δράμημα φωτὸς Περσικὸν πρέπει μαθεῖν his running is like Persian to behold, A. Pers. 247 , cf. Supp. 719 ; more freq. with ὡς or ὥστε, πρέπει ὡς τύραννος εἰσορᾶν S. El. 664 ; ὡς πένθιμος πρέπεις ὁρᾶν E. Supp. 1056 ; πρέπει γ' ὥστε θὴρ ἄγραυλος φόβῃ Id. Ba. 1188 (lyr.). III to be conspicuously fitting, beseem, c. dat. pers., θνατὰ θνατοῖσι πρέπει Pi. I. 5(4).16 ; τοῖς ὀλβίοις γε καὶ τὸ νικᾶσθαι πρέπει A. Ag. 941 , cf. Pl. Chrm. 158c , etc.; with Preps., ποῦ τάδ' ἐν χρηστοῖς πρέπει; E. Heracl. 510 ; οἷα δὴ εἰς πλῆθος πρέπει X. Cyr. 2.1.24 : c. part. , ὅ τι γιγνόμενον ἂν πρέποι Pl. Epin. 976c , cf. Plt. 269c , 288c ; πρέποι γὰρ ἂν (sc. λεχθεῖσα ) Id. Sph. 219c .
2. freq. in part. , ὕμνοι πρέποντες γάμοις Id. R. 460a , etc.; esp. in part. neut., πρέπον τε εἶναι καὶ ἁρμόττειν Id. Grg. 503e ; ἤν τι ἄλλο π. δοκῇ εἶναι Th. 6.25 ; τὸ π. τῇ γραφῇ Plb. 2.40.3 : rarely c. gen., π. ἦν δαίμονος τοὐμοῦ τόδε S. Aj. 534 , cf. Plu. Caes. 14 , Thom.Mag. p.306R. ; τὸ π. that which is seemly, propriety, Pl. Hp.Ma. 294a ; πρὸς τὸ μέτριον καὶ τὸ π. Id. Plt. 284e , etc.: pl., πρέποντα πάσχειν Antipho 3.3.9 ; πρέποντα τῇ συγγενείᾳ ποιοῦντες Isoc. 10.23 .
3. rarely with personal subject, πρέπων ἔφυς πρὸ τῶνδε φωνεῖν art the fit person to . . , S. OT 9 ; Πομπήϊος . . πάνυ τοῖς ἔπεσι πρέπων suiting them, Plu. Pomp. 72 , cf. Publ. 17 .
4. mostly impers., πρέπει it is fitting, both of outward circumstances and moral fitness, c. dat. pers. et inf. , Hdt. 9.79 , etc.; οὐ πρέπει νῷν . . δάσασθαι Pi. P. 4.147 ; πρέπει ἐσλοῖσιν ὑμνεῖσθαι Id. Fr. 121 , cf. A. Ag. 483 (lyr.), E. Hipp. 115 , etc.: with inf. unexpressed, πρέπει γοῦν σοι [ἀποκρίνεσθαι ] X. HG 4.1.37 . c. acc. pers. et inf. , πρέπει τὸν Αἰνησιδάμου ἐγκωμίων τε μελέων λυρᾶν τε τυγχανέμεν Pi. O. 2.46 , cf. A. Supp. 203 , S. Tr. 728 , Th. 1.86 , etc. c. inf. only, πρέπει γαρυέμεν Pi. N. 7.82 , cf. P. 5.43 , A. Th. 656 , Ag. 636 , etc. with inf. understood, an acc. may be subject, ἀπήλλαξαν οὕτω ὡς κείνους ἔπρεπε Hdt. 8.68 . α', cf. A. Supp. 195 , Pl. Prt. 312b ; or object, τείσασθαι οὕτως, ὡς κείνους [τείσασθαι] πρέπει Hdt. 4.139 ; so with dat. of indirect object, Id. 8.114 . trans., liken, τινί τι A. Ag. 1328 (ap. Phot. ).

 

[makesends]

That is what was received by the word becometh.
Eph 5:3 (KJV) But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

The citation from the LSJ lexicon agrees with what was recieved when we read the text and shared. See below, there are several resources shared for all to clearly see.

The Greek word means fitting to, becometh, suitable, proper, resemble, clearly seen, Being etc...

The clause is in present tense indicative mood, Dative case. So a direct translation would be...
Eph 5:3 πορνεία δὲ But Fornication καὶ And πᾶσα All ἀκαθαρσία Uncleanness ἢ Or πλεονεξία Covetousness μηδὲ Not Even ὀνομαζέσθω Be Named ἐν IN ὑμῖν You, καθὼς Even As πρέπει Is Becoming ἁγίοις To Saints;

AMG:
πρέπω,
[in LXX: Psa 93:5 (H4998 נָאָה pi.), etc.;]
1. to be clearly seen.
2. to resemble.
3. to be fitting or becoming, to suit: c. dat., Heb 7:26, 1Ti 2:10, Tit 2:1; impers., c. dat., Eph 5:3; id. seq. inf., Heb 2:10; πρέπον ἐστίν, c. dat. pers. et inf., Mat 3:15; c. acc et inf., 1Co 11:13 (v. Bl., § 72, 5).†

BDAG:

πρέπω (Hom.+ in var. senses) be fitting, be seemly/suitable (Pind.+) impf. 3 sing. ἔπρεπεν: τοιοῦτος ἡμῖν ἔπρεπεν ἀρχιερεύς it was fitting that we should have such a high priest Hb 7:26. Cp. 1 Ti 2:10; Tit 2:1. μηδὲν ὑμῖν πρεπέτω let nothing be pleasing to you IEph 11:2.—The impers. constr. πρέπει τινί it is fitting for someone (X., Hell. 4, 1, 37; TestAbr B 14 p. 119, 3 [Stone p. 86] αὐτῷ πρέπει δόξα; ApcEsdr 7:16; ApcMos 43) καθὼς πρέπει ἁγίοις Eph 5:3. ὡς πρέπει ἀγαπῶντι B 4:9. W. dat. and inf. foll. (Chariton 7, 6, 12; Philo, Leg. All. 1, 48 πρέπει τῷ θεῷ φυτεύειν) Hb 2:10; IEph 4:1; IMg 3:1; ITr 12:2; IPol 5:2. W. inf. foll., in which case the dat. is to be supplied ISm 11:2; IPol 7:2.—πρέπον ἐστίν it is fitting, proper, right (POxy. 120, 24 ὡς πρέπον ἐστίν; 1 Macc 12:11; 3 Macc 7:13; Just., A I, 3, 1) w. dat. of pers. and inf. foll. (Isocr., Ep. 5, 3) Mt 3:15; IRo 10:2; IPhld 10:1. W. inf. foll. and dat. to be supplied IEph 2:2; IMg 3:2; 4:1; ISm 7:2. W. acc. and inf. foll. (Lysias 19, 59) 1 Cor 11:13.—MPohlenz, Τὸ πρέπον: NGG ’33, 53–92.—B. 641. DELG. M-M.

Thayer:
πρέπω; imperfect 3 person singular ἔπρεπε;
1. to stand out, to be conspicuous, to be eminent; so from Homer, Iliad 12, 104 down.
2. to be becoming, seemly, fit (from Pindar, Aeschylus, Herodotus down): πρέπει τίνι with a subject nominative, Heb 7:26 (Psa 32:1 (Psa 33:1); ὁ or ἅ πρέπει, which becometh, befitteth, 1Ti 2:10; Tit 2:1; impersonally, καθώς πρέπει τίνι, Eph 5:3; πρέπον ἐστιν followed by the infinitive, Mat 3:15; Heb 2:10; followed by an accusative with the infinitive 1Co 11:13. On its construction cf. Alexander Buttmann (1873) sec. 142, 2.*

Strong:
G4241
πρέπω
prépō
prepo
DEF :
1) to stand out, to be conspicuous, to be eminent
2) to be becoming, seemly, fit
PS : Verb
STR : Apparently a primary verb; to tower up (be conspicuous), that is, (by implication) to be suitable or proper (third person singular present indicative, often used impersonally, it is fit or right).

LSJ:
πρέπ-ω , impf. ἔπρεπον, which were the tenses chiefly in use: fut. πρέψω A. Eu. 995 (anap.), Pl. Plt. 269c , 288c : aor. ἔπρεψα Id. Chrm. 158c : — prop. of impressions on the senses, 1 on the eye, to be clearly seen, to be conspicuous among a number, ὁ δ' ἔπρεπε καὶ διὰ πάντων Il. 12.104 ; μετὰ δὲ π. ἀγρομένοισιν Od. 8.172 , Hes. Th. 92 ; to be distinguished in or by a thing, φάρεσιν μελαγχίμοις A. Ch. 12 , cf. Th. 124 (lyr.), E. Alc. 512 , 1050 ; π. παρηῒς φοινίοις ἀμυγμοῖς A. Ch. 24 (lyr.); shine forth, show itself, πειρῶντι χρυσὸς ἐν βασάνῳ π. Pi. P. 10.67 ; πανσέληνος ἐν σάκει π. A. Th. 390 , cf. Pers. 239 (troch.), Ag. 389 (lyr.); πρέπουσά θ' ὡς ἐν γραφαῖς ib. 242 (lyr.); ἐπί τοι πρέπει ὄμμασιν αἰδώς h.Cer. 214 ; Ζεὺς πρέπων δι' αἰθέρος E. Hel. 216 (lyr.): sts. c. part. , to be clearly seen as doing or being, ὁ φρυκτὸς ἀγγέλλων πρέπει A. Ag. 30 ; σπλάγχνα . . πρέπουσ' ἔχοντες ib. 1222 , cf. Eu. 995 (anap.).
2. on the ear, βοὰ π. the cry sounds loud and clear, Pi. N. 3.67 , cf. A. Ag. 321 .
3. on the smell, to be strong or rank, ὅμοιος ἀτμὸς ὥσπερ ἐκ τάφου π. ib. 1311 . II to be conspicuously like, resemble, π. τινὶ εἶδος to be like one in form, Pi. P. 2.38 ; πρέποντα . . ταύρῳ δέμας A. Supp. 301 ; εἴ τι σῇ δοκεῖ πρέπειν γυναικί E. Alc. 1121 ; πρέπεις . . θυγατέρων μορφὴν μιᾷ Id. Ba. 917 : c. inf. , τοῦδε γὰρ δράμημα φωτὸς Περσικὸν πρέπει μαθεῖν his running is like Persian to behold, A. Pers. 247 , cf. Supp. 719 ; more freq. with ὡς or ὥστε, πρέπει ὡς τύραννος εἰσορᾶν S. El. 664 ; ὡς πένθιμος πρέπεις ὁρᾶν E. Supp. 1056 ; πρέπει γ' ὥστε θὴρ ἄγραυλος φόβῃ Id. Ba. 1188 (lyr.). III to be conspicuously fitting, beseem, c. dat. pers., θνατὰ θνατοῖσι πρέπει Pi. I. 5(4).16 ; τοῖς ὀλβίοις γε καὶ τὸ νικᾶσθαι πρέπει A. Ag. 941 , cf. Pl. Chrm. 158c , etc.; with Preps., ποῦ τάδ' ἐν χρηστοῖς πρέπει; E. Heracl. 510 ; οἷα δὴ εἰς πλῆθος πρέπει X. Cyr. 2.1.24 : c. part. , ὅ τι γιγνόμενον ἂν πρέποι Pl. Epin. 976c , cf. Plt. 269c , 288c ; πρέποι γὰρ ἂν (sc. λεχθεῖσα ) Id. Sph. 219c .
2. freq. in part. , ὕμνοι πρέποντες γάμοις Id. R. 460a , etc.; esp. in part. neut., πρέπον τε εἶναι καὶ ἁρμόττειν Id. Grg. 503e ; ἤν τι ἄλλο π. δοκῇ εἶναι Th. 6.25 ; τὸ π. τῇ γραφῇ Plb. 2.40.3 : rarely c. gen., π. ἦν δαίμονος τοὐμοῦ τόδε S. Aj. 534 , cf. Plu. Caes. 14 , Thom.Mag. p.306R. ; τὸ π. that which is seemly, propriety, Pl. Hp.Ma. 294a ; πρὸς τὸ μέτριον καὶ τὸ π. Id. Plt. 284e , etc.: pl., πρέποντα πάσχειν Antipho 3.3.9 ; πρέποντα τῇ συγγενείᾳ ποιοῦντες Isoc. 10.23 .
3. rarely with personal subject, πρέπων ἔφυς πρὸ τῶνδε φωνεῖν art the fit person to . . , S. OT 9 ; Πομπήϊος . . πάνυ τοῖς ἔπεσι πρέπων suiting them, Plu. Pomp. 72 , cf. Publ. 17 .
4. mostly impers., πρέπει it is fitting, both of outward circumstances and moral fitness, c. dat. pers. et inf. , Hdt. 9.79 , etc.; οὐ πρέπει νῷν . . δάσασθαι Pi. P. 4.147 ; πρέπει ἐσλοῖσιν ὑμνεῖσθαι Id. Fr. 121 , cf. A. Ag. 483 (lyr.), E. Hipp. 115 , etc.: with inf. unexpressed, πρέπει γοῦν σοι [ἀποκρίνεσθαι ] X. HG 4.1.37 . c. acc. pers. et inf. , πρέπει τὸν Αἰνησιδάμου ἐγκωμίων τε μελέων λυρᾶν τε τυγχανέμεν Pi. O. 2.46 , cf. A. Supp. 203 , S. Tr. 728 , Th. 1.86 , etc. c. inf. only, πρέπει γαρυέμεν Pi. N. 7.82 , cf. P. 5.43 , A. Th. 656 , Ag. 636 , etc. with inf. understood, an acc. may be subject, ἀπήλλαξαν οὕτω ὡς κείνους ἔπρεπε Hdt. 8.68 . α', cf. A. Supp. 195 , Pl. Prt. 312b ; or object, τείσασθαι οὕτως, ὡς κείνους [τείσασθαι] πρέπει Hdt. 4.139 ; so with dat. of indirect object, Id. 8.114 . trans., liken, τινί τι A. Ag. 1328 (ap. Phot. ).

You have gone to a lot of trouble to say what I already believe, but it is my fault. I took you to be saying something like "do like the saints did", as if we were not all who believe, saints, but as though the saints are a special class above the common believer, to be emulated. Again, my bad.

 

[brightfame52]

Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Lets for a moment exchange God for Grace and man for works

8 For by grace[God] are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works[man], lest any man should boast.

or Rom 11:6

6 And if by grace[God], then is it no more of works[man]: otherwise grace[God] is no more grace[God]. But if it be of works[man], then it is no more grace[God]]: otherwise work[man] is no more work[man].

 

[HIM]

Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Lets for a moment exchange God for Grace and man for works

8 For by grace[God] are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works[man], lest any man should boast.

or Rom 11:6

6 And if by grace[God], then is it no more of works[man]: otherwise grace[God] is no more grace[God]. But if it be of works[man], then it is no more grace[God]]: otherwise work[man] is no more work[man].

For if we are sinning willfully after we receive the knowledge of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin. Only a certain looking forward to judgement and fiery indignation. He who despised Moses law died without mercy under two or three wittnesses. How much worse shall it be who has done despite unto the Spirit of Grace?

The OP shows your error. Please respond to it and the points made. Thanks

Eph 2:8.9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.



Ephesians 2, verse 10. It says we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus, for good works, which God had before ordain that we should walk in. The fact that verse 10 starts with the word “for” Lets us know what is about to be said is the reason for what was just said. So the reason why It is not of works that we do is because we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God preordained that we should walk in. That we should be holy and without fault before Him in love. Eph. 1:4
Ephesians 4:24, says in context to us, being his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus, that we are to put on the new man which, after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Then in context to us being his workmanship, and putting on the new man created in Christ Jesus, in righteousness and true holiness verse 25 in chapter 4 starts with the word wherefore. This shows us that there is a contingency or condition in respect to us, having put on the new man which, according to God, was created in righteousness and true holiness. It says for us to put off speaking falsehood. And that we are to speak truth with our neighbor, because we are one with one another. That when angry, we are not to sin and let the sun go down on our wrath. Giving no place for the devil. Then in verse 29 in relation to the quote above, it says, let no corrupt communication come out of our mouth. But only that which is good and edifying in respect to other people’s needs.
Then continuing, and in the same context, chapter 5 starts with be therefore imitators of God, and walk in love. Not letting fornication,uncleanness and covetousness be named among us but be as saints. For this, we know that no fornicator or unclean person or cuffs, who is an idolator has any inheritance in the kingdom of God and his Christ.
Be not deceived. Because of these things comes the wrath of God. Because they are disobedient. BE not partakers with them.

 

[Mr GLee]

Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Lets for a moment exchange God for Grace and man for works

8 For by grace[God] are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works[man], lest any man should boast.

or Rom 11:6

6 And if by grace[God], then is it no more of works[man]: otherwise grace[God] is no more grace[God]. But if it be of works[man], then it is no more grace[God]]: otherwise work[man] is no more work[man].

Amen

I would offer

Remember the oposite of faith is no faith, unbelief none. . . not little. Satan would have mankind believe doubt is the oposite of faith taking way the power .

Doubt the method accusing the brethren day and night .

The faith (unseen power) of Christ (let there be) .It is not without works (and it was good).

The law of faith, as a work of grace a reward of His faithfulness .

Hebrew 11:3-6 Through faith (the unseen eternal ) we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen (and it was good ) were not made of things which do appear. By faith (Christ working with) Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. By faith (chrsit working with) Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. But without faith (ther invisble power ) it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him
Satan would take away the faithful power of Let there be faith (understanding the invisible things of God) and give them over to dying mankind

Our new born again faith yoked with Christ he can make our daily burdens lighter with a future living hope beyond our last breath .

Many confuse faith as a power to understand coming from Christ as if it a work coming from dying mankind. Faith towards him not coming from Him

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Every time the word faith (as power) is used it is in respect to Christ power working with mankind. . not a work coming from dying mankind .

Faithfull ,faithfulness . faithfully (105 times) The faith power of God working in mankind to both reveal his will and empower us faithfully to do it to the fathers good plesure of faith


Many make the mistake by thinking God does not need faith (power )