Saved by Grace doesn't mean our works don't matter. Ephesian's over all context screams this.

[makesends]

No one can be saved without Christ and he is a priest heb 7:17

Of course! So what?

 

[donadams]

We are saved by grace, through faith. Baptism is a sign, not a cause.

Eph 2:8 refers to the redemption of Christ apart from our participation

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace applied to our souls in the sacraments, prayer, virtue and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Purification: no unclean thing enter the heavenly realms of glory!

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Glorification:

Suffering with Christ is required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

 

[donadams]

Who said any of the elect fail to abide in Christ and endure to the end? What are you trying to say —that the abiding and enduring are causal of one's salvation? If one is saved, they WILL abide and endure.

Who said any of the elect fail to abide in Christ and endure to the end? What are you trying to say —that the abiding and enduring are causal of one's salvation? If one is saved, they WILL abide and endure.

faithfulness requires free will
faithfulness is rewarded with the crown of Life!

Matt 24:45
Matt 25:21
Lk 16:10
Acts 16:15
1 cor 4:2
1 cor 4:17
1 cor 7:25
Gal 3:9
Eph 1:1
Eph 6:21
Col 1:2
Col 1:7
Col 4:7
Col 4:9
1 Tim 1:12
1 Tim 3:11
1 Tim 6:2
2 Tim 2:2
Heb 3:5
1 pet 5:12
Rev 2:13
Rev 17:14

Revelation 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

 

[donadams]

Romans 1:17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Not the saved!

 

[makesends]

makesends said:
Who said any of the elect fail to abide in Christ and endure to the end? What are you trying to say —that the abiding and enduring are causal of one's salvation? If one is saved, they WILL abide and endure.

faithfulness requires free will
faithfulness is rewarded with the crown of Life!

Matt 24:45
Matt 25:21
Lk 16:10
Acts 16:15
1 cor 4:2
1 cor 4:17
1 cor 7:25
Gal 3:9
Eph 1:1
Eph 6:21
Col 1:2
Col 1:7
Col 4:7
Col 4:9
1 Tim 1:12
1 Tim 3:11
1 Tim 6:2
2 Tim 2:2
Heb 3:5
1 pet 5:12
Rev 2:13
Rev 17:14

Revelation 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

I'm curious why you keep doing this —ignoring my question, or, at least, not answering it but continuing on with whatever you please, not showing the relevance of what you say to what I asked.

But, I'll take the bait, since it is low-hanging fruit, and since you have shown that when I point out you haven't answered you continue with your story without ever answering:

No, faithfulness does not require free will. Demonstrate how it does. Maybe you can convince me. You will probably get no further than to show that it requires responsible choice. Responsible choice is not the same thing as free will. But maybe you can prove otherwise.

 

[makesends]

makesends said:
We are saved by grace, through faith. Baptism is a sign, not a cause.

Eph 2:8 refers to the redemption of Christ apart from our participation

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace applied to our souls in the sacraments, prayer, virtue and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Purification: no unclean thing enter the heavenly realms of glory!

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Glorification:

Suffering with Christ is required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Well, just maybe you CAN answer, relevant to what I said...!

But, no, Eph 2:8 says "saved", which tends to make me think it is talking about salvation. If, as you say above, "Redemption is not Salvation", then Eph 2:8 is not about redemption, but salvation. You have no authority to put your changes to Scripture.

 

[Ladodgers6]

The following text in Ephesians is to often ripped out of context to imply it doesn't matter what we do because we are saved by grace.

Eph 2:8.9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.



Ephesians 2, verse 10. It says we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus, for good works, which God had before ordain that we should walk in. The fact that verse 10 starts with the word “for” Lets us know what is about to be said is the reason for what was just said. So the reason why It is not of works that we do is because we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God preordained that we should walk in. That we should be holy and without fault before Him in love. Eph. 1:4
Ephesians 4:24, says in context to us, being his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus, that we are to put on the new man which, after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Then in context to us being his workmanship, and putting on the new man created in Christ Jesus, in righteousness and true holiness verse 25 in chapter 4 starts with the word wherefore. This shows us that there is a contingency or condition in respect to us, having put on the new man which, according to God, was created in righteousness and true holiness. It says for us to put off speaking falsehood. And that we are to speak truth with our neighbor, because we are one with one another. That when angry, we are not to sin and let the sun go down on our wrath. Giving no place for the devil. Then in verse 29 in relation to the quote above, it says, let no corrupt communication come out of our mouth. But only that which is good and edifying in respect to other people’s needs.
Then continuing, and in the same context, chapter 5 starts with be therefore imitators of God, and walk in love. Not letting fornication,uncleanness and covetousness be named among us but be as saints. For this, we know that no fornicator or unclean person or cuffs, who is an idolator has any inheritance in the kingdom of God and his Christ.
Be not deceived. Because of these things comes the wrath of God. Because they are disobedient. BE not partakers with them.

I believe that the crux of how a sinner is justified before a Holy God is also ripped out of context. We do not deny sanctification of the believer, but this too is the work of God. Everything in the Redemption of the sinner is God's doing. Either you want to live for God because of what he's done for you or because you don't think it's enough. Ghada said and I quote, that people are not justified by Grace or by Christ, but by works. Even though Paul explicitly states over and over that a sinner is not justified by works of the Law, but by sheer grace of God apart from works.

Romans 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Romans 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes ina him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works

Romans 5:17 For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

The Promise of the Free Gift of Righteousness (Christ's Righteousness) is given to the sinner and received by Faith Alone apart from works, and not earned because it is no longer by Grace but by a debt owed.

Romans 10:1 Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. (Gospel Promise of Free Gift of Righteousness) 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Galatians 2:15 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

It is because of this a believing justified sinner will start to live for God, not because God's imparts righteousness, but because he imputes or credits them with the righteousness that is required to be justified before him and enter heaven. The works or deeds we do as believers are not the cause of our redemption but the effects of it. We have been saying this over and over. And people blatantly misrepresent what we are saying. We say as Paul says, Shall we continue to sin, that Grace may abound? God forbid! But now being free in Christ we can live to God without the threat/curse of the Law hanging over our heads.​

 

[Ladodgers6]

It was this conflict with the mediaeval message that occasioned the fivefold "only", "solas", "alone" slogans. Salvation, said the Reformers, is by faith (man's total trust) only, without our being obliged to work for it; it is by Grace (God's free favor) only, without our having to earn or deserve it; it is by Christ the God-Man only, without there being need or room for any other mediatoral agent, whether priest, saint, or virgin; it is by Scripture only, without regard to such unbiblical and unfounded extras as the doctrines of purgatory and of pilgrimages, the relic-cult and papal indulgences as devices for shortening one's stay there; and praise for salvation is due to God only, without any credit for his acceptance of us being taken to ourselves. The Reformers made these points against unreformed Rome, but they were well aware that in making them they were fighting over again Paul's battle in Romans and Galatians against works, and in Colossians against unauthentic traditions, and the battle fought in Hebrews against trust in any priesthood or mediation other than of Christ. And (note again!) they were equally well aware that the Gospel of the five "solas/onlies/alone" would always be contrary to natural human thinking, upsetting to natural human pride and an object of hostility to Satan, so that destructive interpretations of Justification by Faith Alone in terms of justification by works (as by the Judaizers of Paul's day, and the Pelagians of Augustine's day, and the Arminians within the Reformed fold, and Bishop Bull among later Anglicans) were only to be expected. So, Luther anticipated that after his death the truth of Justification by Faith Alone would come under fresh attack and theology would develop in a way tending to submerge it once more in error and incomprehension; and throughout the century following Luther's death Reformed theologians, with Socinian and other rationalists in their eye, were constantly stressing how radically opposed to each other are the :Gospel Mystery" of Justification and the religion of the natural man. For justification by works is, in truth, the natural religion of mankind, and has been since the Fall, so that, as Robert Traill, the Scottish Puritan, wrote in 1692, "all the ignorant people that know nothing of either Law or Gospel," "all proud secure sinners," "all formalists," and "all the zealous devout people in a natural religion," line up together as "utter enemies to the Gospel." That trio of theological relatives---Pelagianism, Arminianism, and Romanism---appear to Traill as bastard offspring of natural religion fertilized works. So he continued: "The principles of Arminianism are the natural dictates of a carnal mind, which is enmity both to the Law of God, and to the Gospel of Christ; and, next to the dead sea of Popery (into which also this stream runs), have, since Pelagius to this day, been the greatest plague of the church of Christ, and it is like will be til his second coming."

J.I. Packer​

 

[donadams]

How can you choose if you don’t have free will?

Scripture says the narrow road leads to life, not in already saved so I must be on the narrow road

Only those abide in Christ and endure to the end shall be saved
In the future

Salvation is the end of our faith not the beginning

Not faith alone

Charity supernatural virtue of charity is required 1 cor 13:2

Faith hope and charity are eternal insperarable!

1 cor 13:13

Thks

 

[donadams]

makesends said:
We are saved by grace, through faith. Baptism is a sign, not a cause.

Well, just maybe you CAN answer, relevant to what I said...!

But, no, Eph 2:8 says "saved", which tends to make me think it is talking about salvation. If, as you say above, "Redemption is not Salvation", then Eph 2:8 is not about redemption, but salvation. You have no authority to put your changes to Scripture.

No it is the manifestation of the power of the spirit and grace!
Jn 3:5 Mk 16:16 1 pet 3:21

Eph 2:8 Refers to redemption yes
Redemption is part of the salvation process

Notice eph 2:1 “quickend “ meaning?

 

[makesends]

No it is the manifestation of the power of the spirit and grace!
Jn 3:5 Mk 16:16 1 pet 3:21

Eph 2:8 Refers to redemption yes
Redemption is part of the salvation process

Notice eph 2:1 “quickend “ meaning?

Eph 2:1 "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,"

But ok, I'll go with what I think you meant:
Eph. 2:5 "made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved." NIV
NKJV — "even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)."

The KJV and others' archaic term, "quickened" means, "made alive". This chapter, and several others are not about the redemption as such, but about God making us alive, when we were dead.

I answered your question. Now answer mine: HOW can you take a verse that says "saved", to mean "not saved, but only redeemed", by adding your bent to it?

 

[donadams]

Eph 2:1 "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,"

But ok, I'll go with what I think you meant:
Eph. 2:5 "made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved." NIV
NKJV — "even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)."

The KJV and others' archaic term, "quickened" means, "made alive". This chapter, and several others are not about the redemption as such, but about God making us alive, when we were dead.

I answered your question. Now answer mine: HOW can you take a verse that says "saved", to mean "not saved, but only redeemed", by adding your bent to it?

View attachment 820

Redemption is part of the process of salvation

 

[makesends]

Redemption is part of the process of salvation

How does that give you license to substitute 'redemption' for 'salvation' in Ephesians 2:5, and then to claim 'salvation' is not what Ephesians 2:5 means, although it uses the term 'saved'? —or, at least, it used it until you asserted your RCC authority over scripture.

 

[donadams]

How does that give you license to substitute 'redemption' for 'salvation' in Ephesians 2:5, and then to claim 'salvation' is not what Ephesians 2:5 means, although it uses the term 'saved'? —or, at least, it used it until you asserted your RCC authority over scripture.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Key words “not of yourselves”

Christ accomplished the redemption of man

 

[makesends]

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Key words “not of yourselves”

Christ accomplished the redemption of man

SMH

"Well, no, he is not right; he's not even WRONG!"

 

[donadams]

Please explain this verse?

Matthew 6:20
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

 

[donadams]

Eph 2:1 "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,"

But ok, I'll go with what I think you meant:
Eph. 2:5 "made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved." NIV
NKJV — "even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)."

The KJV and others' archaic term, "quickened" means, "made alive". This chapter, and several others are not about the redemption as such, but about God making us alive, when we were dead.

I answered your question. Now answer mine: HOW can you take a verse that says "saved", to mean "not saved, but only redeemed", by adding your bent to it?

View attachment 820

122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not
irresistible.

 

[praise_yeshua]

What does the title mean when it says, "works don't matter"?

Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

We (those in Christ) are created for good works. Works are the purpose of our salvation, not the means of our salvation. God planned works for those He saves to perform. Those works were planned by God before the person was saved. Having been saved by grace through faith those pre-planned works then become the "for," the purpose for our salvation. God saves a person, creates them in Christ, and having saved a person creates them in Christ so they will perform the pre-planned works.

Philippians 2:12-13
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

The saved person is God's workmanship. He creates the saved person in Christ for preplanned works. It is God who works in us to will and to do His good pleasure.





I'm curious: who do you know that says "works don't matter"?

Why would works matter to the total depraved. Most people claim special revelation?

Westminster Confession....

III. Nevertheless, they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins; and, for a time, continue therein: whereby they incur God's displeasure, and grieve His Holy Spirit, come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts, have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded, hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.

John Gill wrote of 1 Cor 5:5

To deliver such an one unto Satan,.... This, as before observed, is to be read in connection with 1Co_5:3 and is what the apostle there determined to do with this incestuous person; namely, to deliver him unto Satan; by which is meant, not the act of excommunication, or the removing of him from the communion of the church, which is an act of the whole church, and not of any single person; whereas this was what the church had nothing to do with; it was not what they were to do, or ought to do, but what the apostle had resolved to do; and which was an act of his own, and peculiar to him as an apostle, see 1Ti_1:20. Nor is this a form of excommunication; nor was this phrase ever used in excommunicating persons by the primitive churches; nor ought it ever to be used; it is what no man, or set of men, have power to do now, since the ceasing of the extraordinary gifts of the Spirit, which the apostles were endowed with; who, as they had a power over Satan to dispossess him from the bodies of men, so to deliver up the bodies of men into his hands, as the apostle did this man's:
for the destruction of the flesh; that is, that his body might be shook, buffeted, afflicted, and tortured in a terrible manner; that by this means he might be brought to a sense of his sin, to repentance for it, and make an humble acknowledgment of it:
that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus; that he might be renewed in the spirit of his mind, be restored by repentance, and his soul be saved in the day of Christ; either at death, when soul and body would be separated, or at the day of the resurrection, when both should be reunited; for the flesh here means, not the corruption of nature, in opposition to the spirit, as a principle of grace, but the body, in distinction from the soul: nor was the soul of this man, only his body, delivered for a time unto Satan; the end of which was, that his soul might be saved, which could never be done by delivering it up to Satan: and very wrongfully is this applied to excommunication; when it is no part of excommunication, nor the end of it, to deliver souls to Satan, but rather to deliver them from him. The phrase seems to be Jewish, and to express that extraordinary power the apostles had in those days, as well in giving up the bodies to Satan, for a temporal chastisement, as in delivering them from him. The Jews say, that Solomon had such a power; of whom they tell the following story (e):
"one day he saw the angel of death grieving; he said to him, why grievest thou? he replied, these two Cushites have desired of me to sit here, "he delivered them to the devil"; the gloss is, these seek of me to ascend, for their time to die was come; but he could not take away their souls, because it was decreed concerning them, that they should not die but in the gate of Luz, מסרינהו שלמה לשעירים "Solomon delivered them to the devils", for he was king over them, as it is written, 1Ch_29:12 for he reigned over them, that are above, and them that are below.''
The phrase is much the same as here, and the power which they, without any foundation, ascribe to Solomon, the apostles had: this is their rod which they used, sometimes in striking persons dead, sometimes by inflicting diseases on them themselves; and at other times by delivering them up into the hands of Satan to be afflicted and terrified by him, which is the case here. And it may be observed, that the giving up of Job into the hands of Satan, by the Lord, is expressed in the Septuagint version by the same word as here; for where it is said, Job_2:6 "behold, he is in thine hand"; that version renders it, "behold, παραδιδωμισοι αυτον, I deliver him to thee", that is, to Satan; and which was done, that his body might be smote with sore boils by him, as it was; only his life was to be preserved, that he was not suffered to touch.

 

[Josheb]

Why would works matter to the total depraved.

What is the subject being discussed in this op?

 

[praise_yeshua]

What is the subject being discussed in this op?

My comments were "inline" with your comments. I did not quote the OP. I quoted you.