Romans 9 from a free will prespective

[JIM]

Careful Jim,

Your sounding a little Calvin like these days.

That was a rhetorical question to Carbon. I definitely do not believe God foreordains all things.

 

[fastfredy0]

From https://www.gotquestions.org/compatibilism.html
Compatibilism is an attempt to reconcile the theological proposition that every event is causally determined, ordained, and/or decreed by God (i.e., determinism, not to be confused with fatalism).
... Here is where compatibilism makes the distinction between man having a free will and being a “free agent.” Man is “free” to choose that which is determined by his nature or by the laws of nature.

 

[TibiasDad]

Not t

Yes indeed, it IS specific. Not random. Not chance. Predestined.

False there are other legitimate options to predetermination. To say that he simply knows what will happen, without being able to fully comprehend how that might occur, is still an option.

This is a philosophical issue, not a strictly scriptural one! Philosophy seeks to fill in the gaps in the information scripture gives us. We are told God knows all things; but it doesn’t explain how this is fully accomplished.


Doug

 

[JIM]

From https://www.gotquestions.org/compatibilism.html
Compatibilism is an attempt to reconcile the theological proposition that every event is causally determined, ordained, and/or decreed by God (i.e., determinism, not to be confused with fatalism).
... Here is where compatibilism makes the distinction between man having a free will and being a “free agent.” Man is “free” to choose that which is determined by his nature or by the laws of nature.

But God determined, i.e., created, the laws of nature. In other words, as I noted earlier, compatibilism declares that man is free to do as he wills, however, as he wills is determined by God. That is not free will.

 

[Reformedguy]

No where does scripture say the we must be given belief! The ability to believe is axiomatic. Indeed, it is only by grace that we can believe, but the ability granted by grace is an axiom.

Doug

Who said "must"?

Philippians 1:29 does not mention being give mere ability. Belief itself is granted.

 

[Reformedguy]

More often than not we better understand the what is, by dealing with the what ifs.

So say you. Where do I find this rule?

 

[Reformedguy]

But does belief provide faith?

And is it not faith that is a command, requirement , and an expectation for our eternity with Jesus? Eph 2:8; 2 Cor 5:7


Is not faith actually belief without proof?

Is not faith actually belief without evidence?

They are not interchangeable..... Faith is confidence in God and his promises, while belief is acceptance of something as true.

And both are necessary for salvation. The devils believe and tremble but do not exercise saving faith. Who has faith on something they don't believe in?

 

[Carbon]

I don't agree with your view, you definition, or what seems to me to be the standard Calvinist definition of God's sovereignty.

Oh okay.

 

[Carbon]

That was a rhetorical question to Carbon. I definitely do not believe God foreordains all things.

I’m hoping you see the truth.

 

[Carbon]

as he wills is determined by God. That is not free will.

The plans of the heart belong to man,
but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD. Prov16:1.

 

[JIM]

So say you. Where do I find this rule?

In Life.

 

[JIM]

I’m hoping you see the truth.

Me too, but I don't think I will see much of it here.

 

[Reformedguy]

In Life.

In life? Sounds subjective

 

[JIM]

In life? Sounds subjective

As is life.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

I don't know what people are reading about Calvinism but the Reformers taught we have free will. The exception is salvation. We don't have free will where salvation is concerned.

I'm supposing that most anti-Calvinists get their information about Calvinism from dubious internet sources.

 

[Reformedguy]

As is life.

Agreed.

 

[Arial]

I don't agree with your view, you definition, or what seems to me to be the standard Calvinist definition of God's sovereignty.

What is your definition of God's sovereignty? It would be helpful in the conversation to know that so there can be a conversation.

 

[makesends]

Not t


False there are other legitimate options to predetermination. To say that he simply knows what will happen, without being able to fully comprehend how that might occur, is still an option.

This is a philosophical issue, not a strictly scriptural one! Philosophy seeks to fill in the gaps in the information scripture gives us. We are told God knows all things; but it doesn’t explain how this is fully accomplished.


Doug

Do you not agree that 'omniscient' should include knowing how a thing occurs? —In fact, knowing every tiniest detail? How can he NOT know, and be God?

Do you not agree that God is first cause? —And so, by definition of 'first cause', no principle from outside himself governs details that he doesn't govern?

You are describing something less than omnipotent.

 

[JIM]

What is your definition of God's sovereignty? It would be helpful in the conversation to know that so there can be a conversation.

Without going into a long discussion, let me just say that I believe that God is in complete and total control of His creation, whether He actually causes it or whether He permits it (instead of preventing it, which he could do if He so chose).

 

[Carbon]

Without going into a long discussion, let me just say that I believe that God is in complete and total control of His creation, whether He actually causes it or whether He permits it (instead of preventing it, which he could do if He so chose).

So more towards deism