Romans 4 vs James 2: Newborn babes vs converted Christians

[JIM]

Newborn babes in Jesus Christ have His faith. And, even as all newborn babes, they are also without works.

Not because they are newly born from the womb, but because they are newly forgiven of all works done, and are forgotten as having never been done.

I don't understand what it is that you are trying to say. What or who are you calling newborn babes in Jesus Christ?

 

[Mr GLee]

That's debatable. It's far from doing unto the least of these.

It would seem to be a law of faith the power of Christ the justification. Thereof non-debatable . We have that power of his labor of love working in us but it is not of dying mankind .(us)

Powerfully. . "Let there be" and there was "look in the mirror evidence" .

Not "let there be. . . . . . . . . . . " wonder, wonder, marvel, wonder as if unfulfilled prophecy. . the doctrine of Limbo.

Natural mans foundation (out of sight out of mind) seek after signs before they can believe for a 1/2 a second. They made Jesus into a cirrus seal in the way. . when we see then we will believe ,(fools)

The voice of Satan teaching commandment as doctrines of dying mankind, oral traditons. The Legion has no spiritual understanding as the father of lies not subject to it as it is written .

Satan's goal remove the power of "Let there be". God the Creator's faithful understanding

 

[Red Baker]

Does God justify ungodly men in their ungodly deeds? Or, does Jesus Christ justify the ungodly that repent of their ungodly deeds?

God justifies the ungodly, through/by the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ~without works, including man's faith, repentance, and his baptism in water, and his continuous in the faith, though God's children do overall considered, since no one can defined what it means to continue, and to what the degree one must to so. God's children range from Abraham to Lot, as far as their faith and good conscience toward God, and to the degree they act upon their conscience.

Romans 4:25~“Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.”

Justification is an act of God's will/mind apart from us doing any works. It is an sovereign act whereby he imputes righteousness to us, based upon his grace alone through the redemption that is in Jesus Christ, who secured this justification for us by his faith and obedience.

Romans 4:4~“Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.”​

As I said, our faith is not the reason, or the medium that God's righteousness is imputed to us~but, our faith is evidence that we are justified by Jesus Christ. Consider:

But to him that worketh not.​

The Bible plan, revealed from heaven, which rejects works. The Bible plan sees human cooperation and efforts the result of grace, not conditions for it! Salvation is of the LORD! We do not compromise that glorious declaration in any way at all! Faith is definitely a work – a work that God expects and requires (John 6:28-29), but it is not a legal, Jewish work of the Law, when it rests on the gracious and finished gift of God. Faith is definitely commandment keeping (I John 3:23), but it is the acceptable evidence of justification when it is viewed as evidence of those justified by God’s grace in Christ Jesus.

But believeth.

The Arminian shouts, “See, faith is not a work. Can you read Paul’s words? Leave us alone!” The Calvinist shouts, “See, faith is the instrument! Can you read Paul? Leave us alone!

• Paul had never met an Arminian or Calvinist, so he was not defending either view of faith.
• He had met plenty of Jewish legalists, and he condemned their heresy on the grounds of faith.
• Justifying faith here is faith that believes God justifies the ungodly by grace alone. Period!
• Do not understate this faith. It is a tremendous evidence of powerful grace in a dead sinner.

On him that justifieth the ungodly.

The only faith that works in this context is faith in God as Justifier of the ungodly, of wicked enemies, not in God as Justifier of the believer, of the faithful, of the obedient, etc. An Arminian’s faith generally rests on God justifying believers on the basis and/or merit of their faith produced by their free will – thus faith becomes a meritorious, conditional work. If an Arminian denies this, it is due to their own confusion about their contradictory doctrine.

God justifies men by free grace through Jesus Christ’s redemptive work (3:23-26; 8:28-33; etc.). They were chosen in Christ, died for by Christ, and had Christ’s work applied by the Spirit when they were dead sinners following the devil (Eph 2:1-7; Titus 3:3-7; etc.).

There is a means of justification ~ the means of the death of the testator (Hebrews 9:12-15).

His faith is counted for righteousness.

The identical language used of Abraham (Gen 15:6) and Phinehas (Ps 106:31) is used here for those who show their righteousness by faith in God and His Son Jesus Christ (4:23-25). Faith is the first evidence of righteousness granted by God for numerous reasons. Faith is the consequence of bestowed righteousness through Jesus Christ (II Peter 1:1). Faith in God from men without understanding by nature is evidence indeed (3:11). Faith in God from men that never sought God by nature is evidence indeed (3:11). Faith in God from men that had no fear of God before their eyes is evidence (3:18).

 

[Ghada]

Rom 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

The "all men" justified are precisely the same "all men" condemned.

There is absolutely no basis, except a pre-biased theological concept, for thinking otherwise. So how can that be? Is Paul preaching universal salvation for all?

Exactly. Good point. People wanting to believe that all men are made sinners by the sin of Adam, must now also believe all men are made righteous, by Jesus Christ living righteously.

Some Christians preach this kind of universalism, by saying that all men are now forgiven all sins and trespasses past, present, and future, so that all men are justified with God by the 'finished work' of Jesus Christ on the cross.

Faith becomes only a matter of self-awareness, as with the New Age theology.

No, because the subject at hand is not about salvation from personal sin.

Isn't the subject about how we become sinners, and then become righteous? Isn't it about death by sin, and righteousness by forgiveness of sin?

Rather the subject at hand is how is one born into this world. We know that because that is what is demanded by the grammatical construction of the "For as by -- so by" and the "so then as -- even so" argument.

How so? The subject is the deeds of men, not our birth?

What Paul is saying there that because of the obedience and the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross anything that might have accrued to the newborn because of Adam's disobedience was voided and made null and void.

Are you agreeing that men were born with sin, because of Adam's transgression, but only until Jesus Christ's death on the cross? Now all men are once again created in God's image without sin?

It says there that we are not born in Original Sin; rather, we are born in Original Grace.

Now this is well said, and another insightful proof of men being created good in the image of God. Does God create, make, or do anything without His grace? Is grace excluded from His image in creation of man?

It's the same inherint fallacy of predeterminists, that say man is not created with God's freewill, so that His freewill must be excluded from His own image.

All men are created good in God's image by grace, and all men that repent are created again good in the image of Jesus Christ, by His same grace.

Otherwise, man creates himself in our own image, apart from God's grace. And man can therefore regenerate himself the same.

Jhn 1:12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

It is only when we sin that we become dead, spiritually, in trespasses and sins.

Exactly. No one else's fault. We all answer for our own deeds whether good or evil. God will ensure it in the end.

Eze 18:20The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father,
Only the soul that sins, shall die by sinning. No soul inherits nor is dead because of the sin of another.

Rom 5:12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Death toward God passes upon men that sin. Sin does not pass upon men by birth.

If man's seed is made sinful by man's sin, then man becomes his own Maker. Else, the true Maker changed because of man's sin, and began making man's seed sinful.

Gen 1:26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:…So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them…And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply…

Hebrews{13:8} Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

No one is dead, spiritually, in Adam's sin. We are born righteous.

Love to hear the truth. Otherwise, we are created unrighteous by an unrighteous God.

1Sa 24:13As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked:
No one can righteously make anything wicked. Sinfulness only comes from the maker of sinful things.

Angels and men make themselves unrighteous by lusting and sinning against the good will of God. God makes nothing sinfully wicked.

Rev 4:11Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Once we sin we become unrighteous and need to be reborn, regenerated.

Exactly again. Any man that sins has an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

I used to believe in being born with a sin nature, until someone corrected the lie with common sense arguments, such as your's.

I then began reading all Scriptures of man's creation and birth, and now see how simple such lies fall apart. And as with all such false traditions of men, they can be undone by the most common of Scriptures:

Gen 1:26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:…So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them…And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply…

Man cannot be created with lust and sin, which is of the devil, because the true God creates all men and women in His own image, by grace.

Remembering that God creates, makes, and does all things by His grace is good for holy doctrine and instruction in righteousness. Thanks.

 

[Ghada]

Just thought you were expecting a response, guess not.

True. I don't expect reponses. I just invite them.

 

[Ghada]

What do you think the parable "drinking His blood and eating His flesh" is teaching ?

No parable.

We eat His spiritual flesh and drink His blood by obedience to His word.

1Pe 1:2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

When the things of the Spirit are made only parable, then the spiritual things are done away with, and the natural man remains in his sins.

Faith is it a work he does with is us. Without him it cannot be done..

True. The only ones justified by their works, are them obeying His faith from a pure heart.

Romans{1:3} Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;... By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: {1:6} Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

Faith is a work .

Having the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, is the work of grace in the heart and soul. Obeying the faith is works of His righteousness.

Believing alone is nothing, because it's not doing any work.

Many deny Christ needs faith as if faith as a work only applied to the creation and not the faith as power of the Faithful Creator

I haven't seen that anywhere specifically. However, some are ignorant of the truth, that the saving faith we recieve by grace, is the faith of Jesus Christ He had as a man to do the works of the Father.

He that preached most about having faith to do anything good on earth, certainly had the faith towards God that did all things well.

 

[Ghada]

Proverbs 9:8​

Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.​

Yes we should learn to judge properly for reasons given in this Proverb. The question is~ Can we identify a scorner and a wise man?

Not by presumption, but by test. Not offering any correction, but only presuming such pearls would be trodden down, is a presumptive accusation, not an honest test.

It is very true fools hate to be corrected, for their ignorant hearts presume they are right (Pr 12:15; 23:9). Scorners are even worse than fools, for their raging pride will not accept rebuke; they will hate the message and the messenger (Pr 9:7). Their haughty conceit causes them to despise instruction, correction, or warning (Pr 26:12). We must beware of them, an dnot waste time on them.

True. And by pride they bear the sword in vain, and quote wrath of Scripture upon the innocent.

While you might rebuke them a few times to shut their mouths (Pr 26:5), you must soon end arguing with them for wise reasons (Pr 26:4; 23:9). Wrangling, debating, or entertaining the questions of such persons is foolish and wrong (II Tim 2:16,23; I Tim 6:3-5; Tit 3:9).

True. Proper dispute of Scripture is dealing with the arguments of others objectively by Scripture, and responding the same to any fair challenges.

Teaching around and over one another, without addressing any specific point of the other, is a waste of time. That also includes repeating the same challenge several times without a response.

I have learn very painfully the precious wisdom of this advice which has set me free and give me peace.

Then to keep our peace, I would advise we not prematurely cast rocks at any argument, until casting pearls to the disputer proves foolish.

Good men avoid these wicked people. You are not obligated to debate them.

True. Nor even to respond to them at all, rather than telling them we think their stuff is mud.

Mat 15:14Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

Without the pig test, accusing others of not being worth casting pearls to, could apply to anyone we disagree with.

yes, we must learn to love reproof, for that is how to get wiser (Pr 9:9; 19:20).

Yes, which is not by only talking with people we already agree with. However pleasing and peaceful it may be.

There can be such a case where we've argued something so ad nauseum, that it's no longer edifying to rehash it again. So we either move on, or tell them thanks but no thanks, we've been down this road once too many times.

And with the topic at hand, I've never personally seen nor heard anyone arguing Romans 4 is only for newborn babes without works, and James 2 is only for walking Christians with works. For me, it clears up once for all any arguments about Christ's apostles, who say we are both justified without works, and justified with works.

In Romans 4, newborn babes of God are justified without works, because newborn babes have no works to judge. In James 2, walking believers are justified with works, because we now have works to judge.

Ok let me see

Since you show you can make a reasonable argument from Scripture you give, then I'd be glad to see from you any confirmation or error in the arguments I give by Scripture.

You can try the one just given. It's as complete an introduction as I can make so far.

 

[Arial]

Exactly. Good point. People wanting to believe that all men are made sinners by the sin of Adam, must now also believe all men are made righteous, by Jesus Christ living righteously.

Not a good point. And in fact the poster does believe that all men are made sinners by Adam but says since the cross (the ones before the cross I think he attaches some "retro active" application even though they have already been born and died) everyone without exception is made righteous. Imagine the chaos in that plan!

However "all" does not always have to mean "without exception", even when used in the same equation. For example "All of the roads were used by all of the people." That means all the roads without exception, but it does not mean that all the people without exception use all the roads without exception.

So in order to understand those statements in Romans, we have to make it agree with what we clearly know. We know all men without exception are sinners and this is so through Adam. We know that all men without exception are not saved. Many are. But not all without exception.

The same is true with the use of "many". "The world is populated by many people, but many only see a small part of it." The first "many" includes all people without exception. The second "many" is a restricted number of "many."

 

[Ghada]

It is not possible to become newborn babes in Christ without works, if we still have our old bad works.

Ghada said: It is not possible to become newborn babes in Christ without works,

Now, if you'd like to respond to all of what is said.

I really don't see the point in trying to decieve. It's easy enough to double check.

 

[CrowCross]

Now, if you'd like to respond to all of what is said.

I really don't see the point in trying to decieve. It's easy enough to double check.

I already have. I have presented Eph 2.....which clearly says salvation isn't by works.

Now, if it is....just how much works is required?

 

[Mr GLee]

No parable.

We eat His spiritual flesh and drink His blood by obedience to His word.

1Pe 1:2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

When the things of the Spirit are made only parable, then the spiritual things are done away with, and the natural man remains in his sins.

That in which God calls separate Flesh and Spirit . The devil calls it all one in the same. he has no spiritual understanding not subject to the gospel . It is why he said to Jesus the Son of man in Mathew 4: .If you are the son of man then I will give. The father of lies a murder from the beginning hates all flesh and blood

Spiritual dust or clay? Like that of the lying spirit of Satan worked in the flesh of Peter as a false prophet .Satan pouring out his lies .Called the man of sin seeing Legion uses sinful men as false apostles (antichrists)

That idealism makes turns inspiration upside down inspired from earth.

Its Christ pouring out his Spirit life on dying flesh in jeapordy of his own Spirit life .He give us little of the power (faith) plenty to please His will.

Mathew 16:22-23 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Parables . .the comparing of the temporal historical as a sign compared to the eternal invisible The signified prophecy.

Yes without the signified understanding of prophecy as parables he spoke not ..Chrsit says without you must prove the parables are not parables

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

We have not received the new bodies. That seems to confuse you? The final ressurection has not already come .

All die not receiving the new incorruptible .

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some

 

[JIM]

Isn't the subject about how we become sinners, and then become righteous? Isn't it about death by sin, and righteousness by forgiveness of sin?

No, Romans 5:14-19 Is not about how we became sinners. That begins in 5:20 and continues from there. but verses 14-19, specifically, deal with the effect of Jesus' obedience and righteousness on the state of the spirit of man as he comes into the world.

How so? The subject is the deeds of men, not our birth?

No. Again the subject of verses 14-19 are about the effect of Jesus' obedience and righteousness on the condition of the spiriti of man at his birth.

Are you agreeing that men were born with sin, because of Adam's transgression, but only until Jesus Christ's death on the cross? Now all men are once again created in God's image without sin?

No, I am saying that Jesus Christ's death was effective retroactively back to the very beginning. All men were always, from the very beginning, made in God's image. That image becomes damaged only once sin has been committed. Man becomes depraved when he sins; he is not born that way.

Now this is well said, and another insightful proof of men being created good in the image of God. Does God create, make, or do anything without His grace? Is grace excluded from His image in creation of man?

AMEN !!

It's the same inherint fallacy of predeterminists, that say man is not created with God's freewill, so that His freewill must be excluded from His own image.

All men are created good in God's image by grace, and all men that repent are created again good in the image of Jesus Christ, by His same grace.

Again AMEN !!

Rom 5:12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Death toward God passes upon men that sin. Sin does not pass upon men by birth.

If man's seed is made sinful by man's sin, then man becomes his own Maker. Else, the true Maker changed because of man's sin, and began making man's seed sinful.

Gen 1:26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:…So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them…And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply…

Love to hear the truth. Otherwise, we are created unrighteous by an unrighteous God.

1Sa 24:13As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked:
No one can righteously make anything wicked. Sinfulness only comes from the maker of sinful things.

Angels and men make themselves unrighteous by lusting and sinning against the good will of God. God makes nothing sinfully wicked.

Man cannot be created with lust and sin, which is of the devil, because the true God creates all men and women in His own image, by grace.

Remembering that God creates, makes, and does all things by His grace is good for holy doctrine and instruction in righteousness. Thanks.

HEAR, HEAR !!!!!

 

[Red Baker]

The works relationship that James speaks of is works that are conducted based upon a saving faith.

James addresses those who profess, yet have no godly works showing their faith.

James 2:14​

“What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?”

A rhetorical question, which we can easily answer – Such faith has no profit! It cannot save!

Question: How does faith save? It only saves by laying hold of eternal life for evidence of coming salvation. Consider:

Election is not based on faith, for God chose us in Christ without faith (Ps 14:1-3; Eph 1:3-12). Legally, Justification needs no faith, for God justified freely by Christ (Rom 5:15-19; 8:28-34; Tit 3:4-7). Regeneration is not based on faith, for the spiritual life must come first (John 1:13; 3:3,6,8; 5:24).

Conversion definitely requires faith, for it is our belief of the gospel of God’s gracious salvation. Glorification can only be known and trusted to the degree that a child of God brings forth works. We believe on Christ, not to be justified or regenerated, but to lay hold of coming salvation.

James did not write a theoretical lesson for their evangelistic program, but for their own conduct! Actual, legal, literal, or vital salvation is not pursued here, or you end up being saved legally by works!

The point pursued is the evidence of eternal life resulting in future salvation – faith plus works. Faith provides evidence of eternal life only when it bears good works (2nd Pet 1:5-11; Ist Thess 1:2-4).

In reply #13 you stated that "Newborn babies are justified by faith without works". Babies don't have faith. They do not believe in God, in Jesus Christ or in the gospel in any sense whatsoever. They are incapable of any such thing. Moreover, babies can't sin, and they haven 't sinned. They do not need to be justified. The will need to be justified only after they have committed a sin.

Infant are sinners by the very fact they inherit Adam's sinful nature, they are born of flesh, which is sinful, wicked, and at enmity against God. These are God's testimony concerning infants, not mine. Jim, I agree with you, but for different reasons, when you wrote:

Babies don't have faith. They do not believe in God, in Jesus Christ or in the gospel in any sense whatsoever. They are incapable of any such thing.

Jim, this is true of ALL MEN born of flesh, not just infants. Now, God has quicken infants to life, this is seen in the life of John the Baptist, and in rare cases of others, who seem to have a godly spirit even from their early youth. I had one of my daughters of this type of spirit from her early age~the others did not show the same spirit at an early age.

Proverbs 20:11​

“Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right.”

Rare, but can and does happen.

Galatianism is that which Paul is preaching against in the letter to the Galatians. That shows up mainly in chapter 3. His question in 3:2, "did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?", sums it up. He continues in verse 3, "Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?" It is the false notion that so many, even today, continue to believe, namely that we are saved by faith; but we stay saved by works. That is false. We are saved by grace through faith, and we stay saved by grace through faith.

Here is the second of five consecutive rhetorical arguments rebuking Galatia for apostasy. Returning to the charge of foolishness (3:1), Paul rebuked them for leaving their first faith. They began enjoying spiritual blessings living under the system of faith, which system God chose for all of us under the gospel, for us to come to a understanding of our spiritual blessings we have through Christ

Since you got started in great blessings through the Spirit, will you now turn to the flesh to be made perfect and acceptable? Since you got started in great blessings through the Spirit, will the flesh lift you higher? How could the glorious and superior free grace of the gospel of Christ be improved by the inferior Law of works performed by man!?

Their conversion had resulted in great blessings by the Spirit, but now they were seeking acceptance by the flesh. The gift of the Spirit was based on spiritual faith to believe in Jesus Christ (John 7:39) and trust what he secured for us.

The Galatians had believed and obeyed the spiritual religion of Jesus Christ, but now they had added works of the flesh apart from the Spirit of Christ, in order to improve further?

The works of the Law did not involve the Spirit; they were flesh actions done outwardly. They thought to improve on Jesus Christ by circumcision and avoiding pepperoni pizza! Paul called the Law of Moses and its commandments weak and unprofitable (Heb 7:18), carnal ordinances (Heb 9:10), rudiments of the world (Col 2:8,20), and beggarly elements in this very epistle (Gal 4:9).

You continued in reply #3, saying, "Converted Christians are justified with works." That is wrong. We are justified by faith. By faith we do works (James and Heb 11).

Jim, we are justified by the faith and obedience of ONE PERSON, Jesus Christ, period. He alone secured eternal life for God's elect. You and Ghada, are wrong. You are closer than he is, yet, still adding your own works of the flesh. More to come.

​

 

[Mr GLee]

No parable.

We eat His spiritual flesh and drink His blood by obedience to His word.

1Pe 1:2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

When the things of the Spirit are made only parable, then the spiritual things are done away with, and the natural man remains in his sins.


True. The only ones justified by their works, are them obeying His faith from a pure heart.

Romans{1:3} Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;... By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: {1:6} Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:



Having the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, is the work of grace in the heart and soul. Obeying the faith is works of His righteousness.

Believing alone is nothing, because it's not doing any work.



I haven't seen that anywhere specifically. However, some are ignorant of the truth, that the saving faith we recieve by grace, is the faith of Jesus Christ He had as a man to do the works of the Father.

He that preached most about having faith to do anything good on earth, certainly had the faith towards God that did all things well.

Faith = unseen power . Without parables (unseen power) Christ the one good teaching master spoke not.

Lying sign to wonder after. Out of body, I had a dream or heard a voice. Lying wonders on the rise picking up speed. .Lying wonders would seem to make the mysteries of parables without effect .

Wondering looking for signs "false prohecy oral traditons of dying mankind" does not replace true prohecy as it is written

Faith is a work (let there be ) and the testimony was (God alone good) .

Faith is power to believe the unseen eternal things .Satan makes the power of Chrsit as it is written to no effect by focusing on the temporal dying .

Satan who is not subject to faith, (Gods understanding power.) The father of lies hates all flesh. Its why in Mathew 4 . .if you are the Son of man? If you are? having no idea beyond what the eyes see

James 2King James Version My brethren, have not the faith of (Coming from pouring it faithfully out ) our our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.. . . .Dying flesh and blood like Abraham and Rehab. If we would attribute the power to the dying flesh and blood then its easy to see that some blasphemy the name as powerful "Let there be" faith

James 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?


James 2:20-24 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith (power of Christ in us) without (Christ's) works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, (Christ in him with him)when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?Seest thou how faith (power of Christ in us) wrought with his (Christ in us) works, and by works was faith (power of Christ working in us with us ) made perfect?And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, (as a work of God) and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works (Christ in us working with) a man is justified, and not by faith only.. .

The " Let there be" . . . .and no testimony (dead faith)


Every time the word faith is used it represents the "let there be power of Christ" that works in us.

He is the Faithful powerful one . He freely gives us little faith calling us ye of little faith No to shame but as a fact. Plenty powerful faith to please the Father ..

Faith is a work or called a labor of "Let there be" and it was" the good kind loving"

 

[Josheb]

Newborn babes are justified by faith without works. Converted Christians are justified with works.

 

[JIM]

James addresses those who profess, yet have no godly works showing their faith.

Good morning Red,
I must disagree with you on that. James is addressing his brothers. It is all a warning to them.

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes in the Dispersion: Greetings.
Jas 1:2 Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds,
Jas 1:3 for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.

Jas 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

I must leave it there for now. I have things to do so, God willing, I will get back to you later on the rest of all your mistakes.

 

[Ghada]

Leads the way?

What? Jesus Christ is not the good example to follow? You are not following Him? He's not leading you in His way?

John{13:15} For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you

2 Peter{2:21} For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Jhn 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

The first Adam leads by sinful example to sin, the 2nd Adam leads by righteous example to do right.

We make ourselves sinners and trespassers by following Adam's sinful example, not by his natural seed.

The Bible says he is the way.

And, He leads in the way.

Heb 6:19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Heb 6:20Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Ghada said:
The first man to obey righteousness is the righteous, that leads the way for others to do righteousness and be made righteous as He.

How does a sinner who has already sinned make himself righteous?

We make ourselves sinful by doing unrighteousness. Only God by Jesus Christ can create and make man righteous to do His righteousness.

2Co 5:21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

Scripture states that Jesus' righteousness is counted to the believer as though it were his.

Not only is His righteousness freely given to us that repent, so that we are made His righteousness. But by Him we are also made righteous as He by doing His righteousness.

1 John{3:7} Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous

 

[Ghada]

How? Because Jesus gave himself as a ransom to pay the penalty for the believers sins

Tradtional words not Scripture.

Mat 20:28Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Gal 2:20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

He gave Himself a ransom for us, not pay for our sins. Only the soul that sins, dies by sinning.

Eze 18:20The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

If the Son paid for any sins, then His soul died by sin, and knew sin on the cross.

by taking that penalty on his own body,

More traditional words not Scripture.

Isaiah{50:5} The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. {50:6} I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

1 Peter 2:23Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree...

Jesus Christ did not bear any sins in His soul. The only sins Jesus bare was in His own body, which were the sins committed against His body by sinners.

Eze 18:20The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The penalty of sin is only paid in the soul, not the body. It's the soul that sins, and dies by sinning, not the body.

and dying the death that we deserve,

More traditonal nonscripture. Jesus dies bodily, not spiritually, for He sinned not.

The only death we deserve, is that of the soul by transgression. And the only soul that dies by transgression, is the soul that transgresses.

Jesus could not die the death that sinners deserve, because Jesus did not sin. His soul did not die by sin like sinners.

If He did not die spiritually, nor deserve to die like sinners, then He did not die the deserved death of sinners.

1 Cor 15:2For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Once again, the Son died bodily for our sins, by bearing the unjust acts of sin committed in His body. He did not die spiritually by bearing our sins in His own soul.

Eze 18:20The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

The righteousness of Jesus Christ was upon His soul unto death. The acts of wicked hands were only upon His body, not His soul.

Only the iniquity of the wicked can be upon his own soul, by sinning against his own soul.

Pro 8:36But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

The righteous can die bodily for sinners, but not die spiritually for sinners.

nailing our sins to the cross.

Nonscriptural tradition.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

The handwritten ordinances contrary to men, are the law written against transgressors.

Psa 22:16For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

Transgressors nailed the Lawgiver to the cross, and His law was nailed with Him. The OT law of Moses was made dead with the nailed body of the Lord God of Israel.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

All sin is an act of transgression. Acts of transgression cannot be nailed to a cross, but only the transgressor.

The tradition of nailing sin to a cross is mystical superstition, not the spiritual truth of souls dying by transgression.

 

[Ghada]

Since he had no sin of his own, the grave could not hold him.

Another misquote of Scripture.

2Co 5:21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God.

He had no sin of His own, nor any other man's.

He rose again to life and ascended back to the Father.

True. So that all sinners are made His enemies at the cross, that by His resurrection all that repent may have mercy, and be made His friends doing His will, and no more enemies crucifying Him to ourselves.

Psa 110:1The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Psa 99:5 Exalt ye the LORD our God, and worship at his footstool; for he is holy.

No future payment due from the believer.

You mean there are no wages of sin for the believer that sins in the future? The wages of sin are no longer for the believer? The wages of sin are only for them that don't believe like you?

Your soul doesn't die by sin? That death is only for other souls that sin?

Rom 2:3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Or, as with the Universalist believers, no soul pays the wages of sin anymore, because Jesus died on a cross by the hands of sinners?

By grace and through faith alone.

Rom 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,...Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

By having the law alone, the transgressing Jews believed they were not condemned with the Gentile sinners.

By having faith alone, are Christian transgressors not condemned with unbelieving sinners?

Is one man condemned for sinning, and another man not condemned for the same sin? Or, is no man now condemned by sinning, because Jesus Christ died on a cross?

There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

Which are only the righteous believers doing His righteousness. No man crucifying Him to ourselves, is in Christ Jesus.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

All dead souls sinning against God are in Adam. Only the souls doing His righteousness are made alive in Christ Jesus.

 

[Ghada]

and nothing can separate them from his love.

Once again words of tradition, not Scripture.

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

The Scripture is not a statement that nothing can separate us from God, but rather is a question about who can separate us from the love of God.

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The statement is not that nothing can separate us from God, but rather that no other creature can separate us from loving God. Which is true for any other creature than ourselves:

Isa 63:9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.

Isa 59:2But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Something certainly does separate any angel and man from God: Our own lust against God. No other angel nor man can separate another from the love and life of God, but only we ourselves can separate ourselves from His Spirit, which of course is from our own enmity against Him, and making Him an enemy against us by our own sins and trespasses.

Jas 4:4Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Heb 1:9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

No man can blame any other man nor creature, for our own wilful sinning against God. And no man can pay the price of sin for other souls, who can only separate ourselves from the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

Jas 1:14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

No other creature can lust and sin for us, nor die to God for us. Certainly not the Son of God who knew no sin at all.