Rom 6:3. Which baptism is being referred to here?

[Red Baker]

So God started giving but ceased,

Matthew 3:11 (KJV) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Not many folks that I have heard quote Matthew 3:11 even get close to its true meaning, which truly amazes me, since the verse is interpreted for us by John the Baptist. Consider:

Matthew 3:11​

“I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

The baptism mentioned in Matthew 3:11 is a baptism of fire in the lake of fire when the wicked shall be burn up/perish! This baptism will take place when God shall destroy both this world and wicked after the Great White Throne Judgement. 2nd Peter 3:10-12; Revelation 20:14,15.

or He never gave the baptism of the Spirit in the first place?

Yes on the day of Pentecost only!

Acts 1:5​

“For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”

What happened on the day of Pentecost was a baptism ~ immersion ~ by the inundation or flood of the Spirit’s Presence, and Power for the work God had given to them during the true biblical period of reformation, going from the OT to the New Testament form of worship that no longer Jerusalem would be the place to go to worship God, but where two or three are found, there they could worship God in Spirit and truth, by the indwelling Spirit of the Living God. The bodies of believers became the "only temple" where God sought to dwell in, and work through.

 

[Red Baker]

John’s baptism is water baptism. It’s called the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

You are dead wrong, John did not teach Baptismal regeneration! He taught the same water baptism that all have ever taught~that is, baptism is for folks only who have good works proving the sincerity of their faith~in other words, they brought forth godly fruits showing that they truly believe first, before John would ever baptize them in water. The same thing Philip did toward the eunuch in Acts 8:37

Matthew 3:8​

“Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:”

Only folks who are first quicken to life have the power to obey such scriptures.

 

[TMSO]

You are dead wrong, John did not teach Baptismal regeneration! He taught the same water baptism that all have ever taught~that is, baptism is for folks only who have good works proving the sincerity of their faith~in other words, they brought forth godly fruits showing that they truly believe first, before John would ever baptize them in water. The same thing Philip did toward the eunuch in Acts 8:37

Matthew 3:8​

“Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:”

Only folks who are first quicken to life have the power to obey such scriptures.

It was basically the ceremonial washing of Judaism, mixed with repentance. It did nothing to the sin, but marked the supposed new beginning of the participant turning away from their sin. Repentance. It did nothing to save anyone, just connected them to John the Baptist's ministry of repentance, and preparing the way for Christ. (Making the paths straight.)

 

[prism]

Matthew 3:11​

“I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

The baptism mentioned in Matthew 3:11 is a baptism of fire in the lake of fire when the wicked shall be burn up/perish! This baptism will take place when God shall destroy both this world and wicked after the Great White Throne Judgement. 2nd Peter 3:10-12; Revelation 20:14,15.

Possibly, but could very easily be referring to two different events, just as when Jesus took the scroll in the synagogue (Isa 4:16), read out of Isaiah and stopped after that whichm pertained to His present ministry. In Mt.3:11, I don't think it is referring to hell fire after 'with fire', but probably not especially considering v.7.

 

[TMSO]

Possibly, but could very easily be referring to two different events, just as when Jesus took the scroll in the synagogue (Isa 4:16), read out of Isaiah and stopped after that whichm pertained to His present ministry. In Mt.3:11, I don't think it is referring to hell fire after 'with fire', but probably not especially considering v.7.

I always thought it symbolically spoke to the purging of the soul and mind of sin and unrighteousness. Passing through the fire.

 

[Red Baker]

Once again, follow the context which is king! It will provide for us the true interpretation of what the speaker is truly saying.

Not many folks that I have heard quote Matthew 3:11 even get close to its true meaning, which truly amazes me, since the verse is interpreted for us by John the Baptist. Consider:

Matthew 3:11​

“I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

The baptism mentioned in Matthew 3:11 is a baptism of fire in the lake of fire when the wicked shall be burn up/perish! This baptism will take place when God shall destroy both this world and wicked after the Great White Throne Judgement. 2nd Peter 3:10-12; Revelation 20:14,15.

Interpretations must agree with their context.​

We must remember this law: A text used out of context is a pretext. We must not violate it; learn to spot it.

A text is a word, clause, verse, paragraph, chapter, or book we are seeking to interpret.
Context is the surrounding information, which shows the author’s meaning by the text.
Out of context is using words and their sound contrary to the surrounding information.
A pretext is a false and incorrect impression designed to hide or disguise the real intent.

Using a verse contrary to its context gives a misleading and deceitful sound of words to teach something the author did not intend and/or is not true. We must reject this abuse of words!

We all have had our words used out of context before, and we hated the corruption of our intent and meaning. We must make sure we never do it with the precious Word of God.

This rule applies to all writings and conversations of every sort, and so context is well understood by most people. Contracts, court records, novels, promises, and poetry are all understood in context, or surrounding information, to truly understand their meaning.

Even single words are meaningless without a context, which is why you asked your teacher to use them in a sentence before you would try to spell them in a spelling bee!

Even if we use a verse to teach a true point, we must make sure we still honor its context. For using the wrong verse to teach the right point is the first subtle step to heresy. Mark it!

 

[JIM]

Once again, follow the context which is king! It will provide for us the true interpretation of what the speaker is truly saying.

Interpretations must agree with their context.​

We must remember this law: A text used out of context is a pretext. We must not violate it; learn to spot it.

A text is a word, clause, verse, paragraph, chapter, or book we are seeking to interpret.
Context is the surrounding information, which shows the author’s meaning by the text.
Out of context is using words and their sound contrary to the surrounding information.
A pretext is a false and incorrect impression designed to hide or disguise the real intent.

Using a verse contrary to its context gives a misleading and deceitful sound of words to teach something the author did not intend and/or is not true. We must reject this abuse of words!

We all have had our words used out of context before, and we hated the corruption of our intent and meaning. We must make sure we never do it with the precious Word of God.

This rule applies to all writings and conversations of every sort, and so context is well understood by most people. Contracts, court records, novels, promises, and poetry are all understood in context, or surrounding information, to truly understand their meaning.

Even single words are meaningless without a context, which is why you asked your teacher to use them in a sentence before you would try to spell them in a spelling bee!

Even if we use a verse to teach a true point, we must make sure we still honor its context. For using the wrong verse to teach the right point is the first subtle step to heresy. Mark it!

Comtext:

Mar 1:4 John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins

Luk 3:3 And he went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Water baptism in the Jordan river was a baptism OF repentance for [UNTO, IN ORDER TO RECEIVE] the forgiveness of sins.

With respect to Matthew 3, the real context you should be considering is verses 5-7.

 

[Red Baker]

Comtext:

Mar 1:4 John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins

Luk 3:3 And he went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Water baptism in the Jordan river was a baptism OF repentance for [UNTO, IN ORDER TO RECEIVE] the forgiveness of sins.

With respect to Matthew 3, the real context you should be considering is verses 5-7.

Good morning Jim,

No person I rather debate this subject with that I know on forums than you.

We have discuss just about every scripture in the word of God addressing this subject over the past fifteen years or so, so let's do this again, for others profit, knowing we both are steadfast in our understanding concerning this subject.

Luke 3:3​

“And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;”
Jim the mere sound bites, favor your position with such verses, but let us consider them in light of other scriptures and within the context of Luke 3.

Context:

Wishing thinking at best..... Jim on your part.

Luke 3:7-9​

“Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.”

Now let's look at the context of Luke 3, not just verse three and then stop, so you can push your bias agenda. Shame on you Jim, that's not being honest with God's word, but showing a spirit that has more desire to support one's private interpretation than standing upon every word of God. Jim, I would like to think you are a better person than to labor to support what you have come to accept as true for many years.

John only baptized folks who show forth godly fruits of repentance he refused to baptize any other just be to baptizing them for numbers, glory, and praise of men.

But, let us look at he verse you gave:

Luk 3:3 And he went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Jim, "for" does not means in order to obtain, but means...... because of! There are many proofs I could provide for you. For now, consider: Mark's used of for.

Mark 1:40-43~"And there came a leper to him, beseeching him, and kneeling down to him, and saying unto him, If thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. And Jesus, moved with compassion, put forth his hand, and touched him, and saith unto him, I will; be thou clean. And as soon as he had spoken, immediately the leprosy departed from him, and he was cleansed. And he straitly charged him, and forthwith sent him away; And saith unto him, See thou say nothing to any man: but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offerfor thy cleansingthose things which Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them."

"For" is used here by Mark, who wrote Mark 1:4 in the sense of BECAUSE OF, not as you want us to believe...in order to obtain!

 

[Mr GLee]

Comtext:

Mar 1:4 John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins

Luk 3:3 And he went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Water baptism in the Jordan river was a baptism OF repentance for [UNTO, IN ORDER TO RECEIVE] the forgiveness of sins.

With respect to Matthew 3, the real context you should be considering is verses 5-7.

One baptism of the unseen Holy Spirit pouring out his spirit on dying flesh and blood in jeapordy of his own life . Washing his wife with the water of the word

H20 a metaphor is used in parables the represent inspiration coming down in all forms of water .Giving new born again spirit life

Deuteronomy 32King James Version32 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the

Below in the ceremonial law spit is used to give the gospel vision .Blind see.

John 9:6 When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,

Clay mixed with water represent the unseen work of Christ in us .

The pouring out of spiritual life on our souls as if dry land. The wedding turning water to wine to represent blood . Water blood both represent the Holy Spirit

The Potter using that those two metaphors Water and dry land over and over .throuighopiut the bible.

And the Potter breathed into the clay Holy Spirit life.

Land is used throughout the Bible in respect to the people the residents. Demonym People by location .

Exodus 4:9 And it shall come to pass, if they will not believe also these two signs, neither hearken unto thy voice, that thou shalt take of the water of the river, and pour it upon the dry land: and the water which thou takest out of the river shall become blood upon the dry land.

Sweat is used in the parables to represent the work of the Holy Spirit strengthening the Son of man, Jesus as if sweat was the power of the Holy Spirit

Luke 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground (Dry).

Water baptism a sign to the unbelieving nations of the world as a priesthood of believers .Not a sign to ones own self ( self righteousness ). Strange fire Leviticus 10:1

 

[JIM]

Good morning Jim,

No person I rather debate this subject with that I know on forums than you.

We have discuss just about every scripture in the word of God addressing this subject over the past fifteen years or so, so let's do this again, for others profit, knowing we both are steadfast in our understanding concerning this subject.

Luke 3:3​

“And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;”
Jim the mere sound bites, favor your position with such verses, but let us consider them in light of other scriptures and within the context of Luke 3.

Wishing thinking at best..... Jim on your part.

Luke 3:7-9​

“Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.”

Now let's look at the context of Luke 3, not just verse three and then stop, so you can push your bias agenda. Shame on you Jim, that's not being honest with God's word, but showing a spirit that has more desire to support one's private interpretation than standing upon every word of God. Jim, I would like to think you are a better person than to labor to support what you have come to accept as true for many years.

John only baptized folks who show forth godly fruits of repentance he refused to baptize any other just be to baptizing them for numbers, glory, and praise of men.

But, let us look at he verse you gave:

Jim, "for" does not means in order to obtain, but means...... because of! There are many proofs I could provide for you. For now, consider: Mark's used of for.

"For" is used here by Mark, who wrote Mark 1:4 in the sense of BECAUSE OF, not as you want us to believe...in order to obtain!

Yes, we have been through this many times before. And there is not a single credible source, knowledgeable in Greek, that would ever agree with your interpretation that the "for" forgiveness of sin in John's baptism or in Christian baptism means "because of". Generally, I consider nearly all of your arguments to be rational, even if wrong. But this one, claiming that "for the forgiveness of sin" anywhere in scripture ever means "because of the forgiveness of sin", is just plain silly. It always means "unto, i.e., in order for" the forgiveness of sin. To claim otherwise is a flagrant violation of interpretation of God's word.

 

[JIM]

One baptism of the unseen Holy Spirit pouring out his spirit on dying flesh and blood in jeapordy of his own life . Washing his wife with the water of the word

H20 a metaphor is used in parables the represent inspiration coming down in all forms of water .Giving new born again spirit life

Deuteronomy 32King James Version32 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the

Below in the ceremonial law spit is used to give the gospel vision .Blind see.

John 9:6 When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,

Clay mixed with water represent the unseen work of Christ in us .

The pouring out of spiritual life on our souls as if dry land. The wedding turning water to wine to represent blood . Water blood both represent the Holy Spirit

The Potter using that those two metaphors Water and dry land over and over .throuighopiut the bible.

And the Potter breathed into the clay Holy Spirit life.

Land is used throughout the Bible in respect to the people the residents. Demonym People by location .

Exodus 4:9 And it shall come to pass, if they will not believe also these two signs, neither hearken unto thy voice, that thou shalt take of the water of the river, and pour it upon the dry land: and the water which thou takest out of the river shall become blood upon the dry land.

Sweat is used in the parables to represent the work of the Holy Spirit strengthening the Son of man, Jesus as if sweat was the power of the Holy Spirit

Luke 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground (Dry).

Water baptism a sign to the unbelieving nations of the world as a priesthood of believers .Not a sign to ones own self ( self righteousness ). Strange fire Leviticus 10:1

The baptism in the Jordan River was not a metaphor. It was a literal act of immersion in water. It was and is the occasion in the life of the repentant believer that God has promised to forgive the sins of the believer. The account of baptism in Acts 2:38 is the very definition of being born again of water and Spirit.

 

[Mr GLee]

John only baptized folks who show forth godly fruits of repentance he refused to baptize any other just be to baptizing them for numbers, glory, and praise of men.

But, let us look at he verse you gave:

I would offer the H20 baptism of the priesthood of believers (new testament) was passed on from the tribe of Levi. It was on a voluntary bases .Not all of Levi's were priest. .

The priesthood believer as the temple of God . . a outward sign to the all the Pagan nations of the world according to their foundation ."out of sight out of mind . . .fools

The gospel in a hope of drawing mankind to the source of faith as it is written (sola scriptura)

Aaron's two sons added to prophecy in violation to the law not to add or subtract. Calling it strange fire .It consumed them not a hint of smoke on the priestly attire.

Show forth godly fruits of repentance . . our first love Christ giving us ears to hear his faithful understanding and power to a repent .power of faith as it is written

It would seem to be supported below .

Revelation 2:1-7 King James Version Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.(hear Christ) Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

 

[Mr GLee]

The baptism in the Jordan River was not a metaphor. It was a literal act of immersion in water. It was and is the occasion in the life of the repentant believer that God has promised to forgive the sins of the believer. The account of baptism in Acts 2:38 is the very definition of being born again of water and Spirit.

Hi Thanks

Not a salvation issue.

Simply gospel Christ saves dying mankind ,

More of how can we hear the mysteries made known by faith (the power of the unseen eternal things)

The parable using the word Jordan meaning . . "go down descending" The crossing of to. . . go down descending is symbolic of death.

Yes water used to represent the Holy Spirit the eternal things of faith (power) .

Miraculously we can walk or understand our invisible head Christ by using the temporal historical things seen to give his faithful understanding to us.

The two witnesses must be mixed if a person desire the gospel rest .. . understanding the mystery of faith (the unseen)

It would seem we are give a prescription needed to rightly divide the parables revealing the mystery of faith

2 Corinthians 4:18King James Version18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[JIM]

Hi Thanks

Not a salvation issue.

Are you saying that the forgiveness of sins is not a salvation issue?