Purgatory

[donadams]

To deny oneself is to die to sin.

Nowhere does the NT tell us to do "penance."

That seems to be an evolution in the RCC of "repentance" to "penitence" to "penance."

There is no NT warrant for "penance."

And I thought “scripture was the only authority”! Now we have women popes!

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

 

[Deleted member 5]

Are you pontifficating without authority authority?
Silly me and I thought “scripture was the only authority”!

You're not very good at following along and comprehension, are you? Most of your responses are senselessness.

 

[donadams]

And I thought “scripture was the only authority”! Now we have women popes!

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Does mean I’m now a Protestant? Lol!

 

[donadams]

He’s not the brightest bulb in the box but I make up for it in boldness!
Acts 4:13

I am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ it is the power of God unto salvation! Rom 1:16

I’m Not ashamed of the truth revealed by Christ and taught by holy mother church either! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Lol!

 

[Deleted member 5]

I’m Not ashamed of the truth revealed by Christ and taught by holy mother church either! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Can you show us in Scripture where Christ's church is referred to as "Holy Mother Church?"

 

[donadams]

Can you show us in Scripture where Christ's church is referred to as "Holy Mother Church?"

You better know it!

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Thanks

 

[Deleted member 5]

You better know it!

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Thanks

Goodness grief...

One more time, show us in Scripture where Christ's CHURCH is called "Holy Mother Church."

 

[Eleanor]

Charity love of God?

Is the work of God in you, a demonstration, result of salvation.

 

[Eleanor]

I demonstrated how your prominent Calvinist teachers, like McCarthy, are professional liars, who know better but lie anyway, and this is your only weak, impotent reply.

Why is it mine to defend other men, or "Calvinism?"

Scripture is my sole source.

Do you have me confused with someone else?

 

[Eleanor]

And I thought “scripture was the only authority”! Now we have women popes!

When did the RCC start doing that!

Previously addressed, post #23.

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

 

[donadams]

That text has nothing to do with apostate Romes "penance."

Acting from ignorance again?
Or spiritual pride?

Apostate means rejecting Christ!
Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Ephesians 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ…

No problem

 

[donadams]

To deny oneself is to die to sin.

Nowhere does the NT tell us to do "penance."

That seems to be an evolution in the RCC of "repentance" to "penitence" to "penance."

There is no NT warrant for "penance."

You don’t pray?
Alms, fasting?
These constitute Penance

Jesus does not say if you pray, if you give alms, if you fast but He said when you pray, etc.

Show me tithing in the New Testament?
Thanks

 

[Eleanor]

You don’t pray?
Alms, fasting?
These constitute Penance

Nowhere in the NT are these presented as penance.
That is a notion of man.

Jesus does not say if you pray, if you give alms, if you fast but He said when you pray, etc.

Show me tithing in the New Testament?
Thanks

Why do you want me to do that?

We are to give generously, that's it.

 

[Illuminator]

Why is it mine to defend other men, or "Calvinism?"

Scripture is my sole source.

Do you have me confused with someone else?

No, you are the one who said: "If my salvation depends on anything but obedient faith, merit is being required of me for salvation."
"merit is being required of me for salvation" or "salvation by works" is a typical Calvinoid mantra.
So I explained a bit about "merit" in post 29. Perhaps I misunderstood you. If you did not mean we teach salvation by works, then I apologize.

 

[Leonard03782]

No, you are the one who said: "If my salvation depends on anything but obedient faith, merit is being required of me for salvation."
"merit is being required of me for salvation" or "salvation by works" is a typical Calvinoid mantra.
So I explained a bit about "merit" in post 29. Perhaps I misunderstood you. If you did not mean we teach salvation by works, then I apologize.

are you not a rc?
If you are, then I will say that your salvation is dependent on works based on what your false religion says here:

ccc1129 The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. p319

The roman corrupt church demands a quid pro quo(ie works) in order to be considered worthy of heaven.

 

[Leonard03782]

Im just trying to point out that whilst the Kaddish is said at funerals,
the prayer for the souls of departed is the “el male rahamim”

The obvious question is what state are those souls in that prayer can make a difference for them?

it makes no difference what state their soul is in that prayer will make the smallest amount of difference. Their fate is sealed the moment they die. they are either in heaven or hell and there is no way to change their location once they have stepped into eternity. Regardless of what the rcc has to say about it.

 

[Eleanor]

No, you are the one who said: "If my salvation depends on anything but obedient faith, merit is being required of me for salvation."
"merit is being required of me for salvation" or "salvation by works" is a typical Calvinoid mantra.
So I explained a bit about "merit" in post 29. Perhaps I misunderstood you. If you did not mean we teach salvation by works, then I apologize.

I do not take my theology from Calvin, I take everything from Scripture.
If Calvin is in agreement with Scripture, then good for him.

 

[Illuminator]

I do not take my theology from Calvin, I take everything from Scripture.
If Calvin is in agreement with Scripture, then good for him.

The Bible doesn't teach to take everything from Scripture. You take everything from scripture according to your private opinion. Why don't you start a thread defending the unworkable unhistorical man made tradition of sola scriptura. "Penance" is another word for repentance, that you seem to have no clue what penance means.

 

[Eleanor]

The Bible doesn't teach to take everything from Scripture. You take everything from scripture according to your private opinion. Why don't you start a threadF defending the unworkable unhistorical man made tradition of sola scriptura. "Penance" is another word for repentance, that you seem to have no clue what penance means.

For the same reason I don't start a thread on Ignatius, Augustine or Aquinas.

 

[Illuminator]

Goodness grief...

One more time, show us in Scripture where Christ's CHURCH is called "Holy Mother Church."

The Church as “Mother”
To those to whom he is a Father, the Church must also be a mother. (IV, 1:1)

Let us learn, from her single title of Mother, how useful, nay, how necessary the knowledge of her is, . . . (IV, 1:4)
Calvin's Institutes.

50 "Catholic" Views of Protestant Leader John Calvin

Catholic views of John Calvin are numerous. Maybe this compendium will give both sides a feel for how close we really are in many ways.

www.patheos.com

God's true Church conducts herself as a caring mother toward her children. Old Testament Israel was thought of as a mother and her citizens as her children. The Bible uses the term mother to illustrate the love of God for His sons and daughters (2 Corinthians 6:18).