Palingenesis

[TonyChanYT]

Wiki:

Palingenesis is a concept of rebirth or re-creation, used in various contexts in philosophy, theology, politics, and biology. Its meaning stems from Greek palin, meaning 'again', and genesis, meaning 'birth'.The word may be traced back to the Stoics,[2][3][4][5] who used the term for the continual re-creation of the universe. Similarly, Philo spoke of Noah and his sons as leaders of a renovation or rebirth of the earth, Plutarch of the transmigration of souls, and Cicero of his own return from exile.

It was a rather popular word used by Greek philosophers. It appears only 2 times in the NT in 2 different senses.

Berean Literal Bible, Matthew 19:

28 Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you that in the regeneration,

παλινγενεσίας, palingenesias, Strong's 3824:

when the Son of Man shall sit down upon His throne of glory, you having followed Me, you also will sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for the sake of My name, will receive a hundredfold, and will inherit eternal life.

I think Jesus was talking about the regeneration of the heavens and earth on the last day into the era of eternal life.

Elsewhere, Paul wrote in (ESV) Titus 3:

5 he saved us,

He saved
Verb - Aorist Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular

It was a singular punctiliar saving event that corresponded to regeneration in the spirit:

not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration [G3824] and renewal [G342] of the Holy Spirit,

Paul was talking about the regeneration of the human spirit, i.e., being born again.

In the NT, palingenesis (G3824) can mean the regeneration of a person now or the regeneration of the universe in the future.

I define salvation as a 3-stages process:

1. Regeneration: Paraclete indwells the human spirit instantly and presently.
2. Sanctification of the soul involves ongoing faithful works daily.
3. Glorification of bodies at the resurrection on the last day. Regeneration of the universe.

Palingenesis refers to the first or the last stage.

 

[Josheb]

Wiki:


It was a rather popular word used by Greek philosophers. It appears only 2 times in the NT in 2 different senses.

Berean Literal Bible, Matthew 19:


παλινγενεσίας, palingenesias, Strong's 3824:


I think Jesus was talking about the regeneration of the heavens and earth on the last day into the era of eternal life.

Elsewhere, Paul wrote in (ESV) Titus 3:


He saved
Verb - Aorist Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular

It was a singular punctiliar saving event that corresponded to regeneration in the spirit:


Paul was talking about the regeneration of the human spirit, i.e., being born again.

In the NT, palingenesis (G3824) can mean the regeneration of a person now or the regeneration of the universe in the future.

Pretty good. Well done.

I define salvation as a 3-stages process:

1. Regeneration: Paraclete indwells the human spirit instantly and presently.
2. Sanctification of the soul involves ongoing faithful works daily.
3. Glorification of bodies at the resurrection on the last day. Regeneration of the universe.

Palingenesis refers to the first or the last stage.

Should have stopped before offering personal opinion because salvation is MUCH greater than three things.

 

[CrowCross]

Glorification of bodies at the resurrection on the last day.

The resurrection is pre-tribulation.

Yes, there is a second resurrection for the lost at the end of the tribulation. Rev 20:11-15.

 

[makesends]

Pretty good. Well done.

TonyChanYT said:
I define salvation as a 3-stages process:

1. Regeneration: Paraclete indwells the human spirit instantly and presently.
2. Sanctification of the soul involves ongoing faithful works daily.
3. Glorification of bodies at the resurrection on the last day. Regeneration of the universe.

Palingenesis refers to the first or the last stage.

Should have stopped before offering personal opinion because salvation is MUCH greater than three things.

Not that I, nor @TonyChanYT , for that matter, would disagree that salvation is MUCH greater than three things, but for the purposes of his post, what would you add to the list, or how would you have done it differently within the context and for the sake of brevity?

I might have said, between the first two points, something about faith, but, salvific faith being a product of the indwelling Spirit, it is already included in the first point and active in the second point.

 

[Josheb]

Pretty good. Well done.

Should have stopped before offering personal opinion because salvation is MUCH greater than three things.

Not that I, nor @TonyChanYT , for that matter, would disagree that salvation is MUCH greater than three things, but for the purposes of his post, what would you add to the list, or how would you have done it differently within the context and for the sake of brevity?

I might have said, between the first two points, something about faith, but, salvific faith being a product of the indwelling Spirit, it is already included in the first point and active in the second point.

For the sake of brevity, the simplest solution would have been to say...

I define [the role of the Spirit in] salvation as a 3-stages process:

1. Regeneration: Paraclete indwells the human spirit instantly and presently.
2. Sanctification of the soul involves ongoing faithful works daily.
3. Glorification of bodies at the resurrection on the last day. Regeneration of the universe.

Palingenesis refers to the first or the last stage.

....and then left off the last line.


Salvation as a whole involves the work of God in Christ, and that includes the work of the Spirit in Christ (Rom. 8:9). Salvation as a whole also involves the remission of sins (it is sin and wrath from which we are being saved), choosing, calling, justifying, pledging, good works, glorification here on earth, and more.

 

[makesends]

For the sake of brevity, the simplest solution would have been to say...

....and then left off the last line.


Salvation as a whole involves the work of God in Christ, and that includes the work of the Spirit in Christ (Rom. 8:9). Salvation as a whole also involves the remission of sins (it is sin and wrath from which we are being saved), choosing, calling, justifying, pledging, good works, glorification here on earth, and more.

Yes, that makes good sense. But what he was putting down was rather obviously not intended as a comprehensive list. True, though, that he could have been more definitive as to describing process of stages, and not the salvation itself.

 

[Josheb]

Yes, that makes good sense. But what he was putting down was rather obviously not intended as a comprehensive list.

I disagree but don't think either of us can read another's mind so speculation regarding unstated motives should be avoided.

True, though, that he could have been more definitive as to describing process of stages, and not the salvation itself.

I've been trading posts with @TonyChanYT for many years in multiple forums. I've endeavored to improve his prowess by focusing more on what scripture states and not personal opinion or appeals to oneself as the authority for a post's veracity (he often cites his own posts in Reddit to justify posts on Christian forums). There's always a context to our exchanges that is unstated (because it's not germane to any one given op). Rarely are any replies engaged for discussion regardless of who replies (this op has been up for nearly four months without discussion). That's normal for an op like this in a Devotions board, but odd for a post like this in a Bible Study board.

In this case the angel is in the details and since the op is likely not to be re-engaged (where consensus could readily be obtained like you and I just did) it's a good and beneficial thing the minor adjustment is observed because it's a minor adjustment with potentially significant or important effect. Thanks for the opportunity to clarify my earlier post.

 

[makesends]

I disagree but don't think either of us can read another's mind so speculation regarding unstated motives should be avoided.

I've been trading posts with @TonyChanYT for many years in multiple forums. I've endeavored to improve his prowess by focusing more on what scripture states and not personal opinion or appeals to oneself as the authority for a post's veracity (he often cites his own posts in Reddit to justify posts on Christian forums). There's always a context to our exchanges that is unstated (because it's not germane to any one given op). Rarely are any replies engaged for discussion regardless of who replies (this op has been up for nearly four months without discussion). That's normal for an op like this in a Devotions board, but odd for a post like this in a Bible Study board.

In this case the angel is in the details and since the op is likely not to be re-engaged (where consensus could readily be obtained like you and I just did) it's a good and beneficial thing the minor adjustment is observed because it's a minor adjustment with potentially significant or important effect. Thanks for the opportunity to clarify my earlier post.

I think I follow, now. Thanks.