Understanding what Sheol, Hell, Hades mean.

[LeviR]

“For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten.”

(Ecclesiastes 9:5 NKJV)

Accordance

accordance.bible

It is argued that the “spirits in prison” could not be those who were alive during the days of Noah and who are now dead in the abyss of a watery grave because they are called “spirits”.
This argument fails because when a person is raised from the dead by the Spirit, he is called a spirit. See John 3.

 

[Mr GLee]

Purgatory is another false doctrine of the RCC.
They invented purgatory because they understand heaven wasn’t opened to believers until after the forerunner, who is Christ, entered.
So, Lazarus wasn’t in heaven they say. Both him and the rich Jew were both in Sheol. Just in different layers, supposedly.
Read Dante’s inferno mythology for all truth. Hehe

They also invented purgatory to give the idea (surely you will not die) the foundation of reincarnation

The Lord uses Peter as a serial denier to teach "do not try this at home".

In his jealousy of John (jealousy blinds the mind) he got on his donkey went to town bringing false prohecy oral tradition of dying mankind
Confirmed the words in the garden of Eden. Surly you will not die look at my beauty Sssss and live forever . The lord informs that if every time the Holy Spirit dismissed lying prohecy and wrote it down we would need a bigger planet to hold the volumes upon volumes

John 21:22-25 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

That would seem to confirm it is God who makes us us different as in what do we have that has not been freely given freely received of Christ Protecting the authority of the one author .So that dying mankind do not puff themselves up above all things written in the law and its testimony the prophets .(sola scriptura) In that way it would be not possible to deceive the Christians or the Elect. . they honor the seven seals sealed to the end of time. . They give no heed to Satan the identity thief the king of lying signs to wonder after . They trust prophecy.

Christ's authority not their own. . oral traditons of dying mankind

1 Corinthians 4:6-7 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure (Parable) transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

God is not a racist as some would make him out. He is the cure. Come to him through his living gospel word.

 

[Hobie]

I see that a little different .

A living sacrifice. Christ eternal God cannot die. He suffered pouring out His Spirit life on dying flesh to the point of death. . not dead ..

It is appointed to for all to die once . No retrial in as double jeapordy.

Mankind has been tried and found guilty according to the letter of the book of law the bible (death). Thou shall not or you in dying a person will to come to a end .

Corrupted flesh returns to dust temporal spirit under the law returns the Holy Father of all Spirit life

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Revelation 20: 14 And death and (with) hell (the sufferings of death) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Second death. . . the death of death . The letter of the law it will not enter the new order. Previous things will be forgotten and never come to mind no more tears.

.New Creatures .

It would seem to be of the laws of the fathers oral traditons of dying mankind. Giving the illusion one does not really die according to the law of fathers dying mankind. They teach the non-venerable there is always Limbo as a backup for the younger sinners and Purgatory for the more mature sinners. The doctrine of demons

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Private interpretations are not what God wants, He gives us the Bible to show us truth, the spirit is the breath of life.
Here is a excellent sermon on this truth which I came across..
Part 1 – The Breath is the Spirit
How was man formed? (Body + breath = living soul)

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

What is the breath? Breath is equated with the spirit of God.

Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils.

At death the body returns to dust while the spirit is said to return to God who gave it. (Silver cord = spine, golden bowl = skull, pitcher = heart, wheel = lungs)

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

When we are born our breath, as drawn from the surrounding atmosphere, may be said to come from or be given by God and with the same propriety may it be said, when it leaves the body at death to return unto Him. At death the breath or spirit of man is said to be gathered unto God.

Job 34:14 If he set his heart upon man, if he [God] gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Christ understood that his spirit would return to God at death.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Once a man’s spirit or breath is gone his thoughts perish.

Psalm 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. 4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

The dead know nothing they are unconscious. All their thoughts and feelings are gone.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Man is of so little account because his fragile life only remains while he has breath.

Isaiah 2:22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?

Man has no pre-eminence over animals. We all die the same. It cannot be proved whether the spirit goes up or downward. The pagan belief was that the spirit of man goes up and the spirit of animals goes down but Solomon says we have the same spirit as the animals and it can’t be proved where the spirit goes at death.

Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

The breath of life is the spirit which God has given both man and beast. It is common to all living things and is not a distinguishing characteristic of man. The dead cannot praise God.

Psalms 30:9 What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?

The dead cannot give thanks to God.

Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

The dead are silent, they do not praise God.

Psalms 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

But God can reverse the death process by creating new bodies and renewing the spirit or breath in them.

Psalms 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

Part 2 – The Unconscious State of the Dead
Death is compared to sleep so there must be some analogy between a state of sleep and a state of death, and this analogy must pertain to that which renders sleep a peculiar condition. Our condition in sleep differs from our condition when awake simply in this, that when we are soundly asleep, we are entirely unconscious. In this respect death is like sleep; that is, the dead are unconscious. This figure is frequently used to represent the condition of the dead.

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Christ himself represented death as a sleep saying Lazarus was asleep in death. Lazarus would have remained unconscious sleeping in the grave until the resurrection had he not been raised by Christ.

John 11:11 Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

At death Stephen commended his spirit to God. His spirit being departed he fell asleep becoming unconscious.

Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Christ slept in death being entirely unconscious in death.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

When Christ died He commended His spirit into the hands of His Father and gave ghost. But Christ did not ascend to the Father as a ghost or a spirit, otherwise after His resurrection He would not have said “I am not yet ascended to my Father.” Christ remained dead in the grave unconscious until He arose again.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father.

Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?

 

[Mr GLee]

Private interpretations are not what God wants, He gives us the Bible to show us truth, the spirit is the breath of life.
Here is a excellent sermon on this truth which I came across..
Part 1 – The Breath is the Spirit
How was man formed? (Body + breath = living soul)

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

What is the breath? Breath is equated with the spirit of God.

Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils.

At death the body returns to dust while the spirit is said to return to God who gave it. (Silver cord = spine, golden bowl = skull, pitcher = heart, wheel = lungs)

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

When we are born our breath, as drawn from the surrounding atmosphere, may be said to come from or be given by God and with the same propriety may it be said, when it leaves the body at death to return unto Him. At death the breath or spirit of man is said to be gathered unto God.

Job 34:14 If he set his heart upon man, if he [God] gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Christ understood that his spirit would return to God at death.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Once a man’s spirit or breath is gone his thoughts perish.

Psalm 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. 4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

The dead know nothing they are unconscious. All their thoughts and feelings are gone.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Man is of so little account because his fragile life only remains while he has breath.

Isaiah 2:22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?

Man has no pre-eminence over animals. We all die the same. It cannot be proved whether the spirit goes up or downward. The pagan belief was that the spirit of man goes up and the spirit of animals goes down but Solomon says we have the same spirit as the animals and it can’t be proved where the spirit goes at death.

Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

The breath of life is the spirit which God has given both man and beast. It is common to all living things and is not a distinguishing characteristic of man. The dead cannot praise God.

Psalms 30:9 What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?

The dead cannot give thanks to God.

Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

The dead are silent, they do not praise God.

Psalms 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

But God can reverse the death process by creating new bodies and renewing the spirit or breath in them.

Psalms 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

Part 2 – The Unconscious State of the Dead
Death is compared to sleep so there must be some analogy between a state of sleep and a state of death, and this analogy must pertain to that which renders sleep a peculiar condition. Our condition in sleep differs from our condition when awake simply in this, that when we are soundly asleep, we are entirely unconscious. In this respect death is like sleep; that is, the dead are unconscious. This figure is frequently used to represent the condition of the dead.

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Christ himself represented death as a sleep saying Lazarus was asleep in death. Lazarus would have remained unconscious sleeping in the grave until the resurrection had he not been raised by Christ.

John 11:11 Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

At death Stephen commended his spirit to God. His spirit being departed he fell asleep becoming unconscious.

Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Christ slept in death being entirely unconscious in death.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

When Christ died He commended His spirit into the hands of His Father and gave ghost. But Christ did not ascend to the Father as a ghost or a spirit, otherwise after His resurrection He would not have said “I am not yet ascended to my Father.” Christ remained dead in the grave unconscious until He arose again.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father.

Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?

Private interpretations like yours or mine as heresies are our own personal commentary on what we think the Holy Spirit is teaching.

Like you stated breath of life. Its death that must be defined which is asleep waiting for the wakeup call on the last day under the Sun

Death the letter of the law suffering the daily pangs of hell . Both tossed in the fiery judgment of Christ. The death of death.

Lazarus demonstration 4 days. Jesus the Son of Man three days. Different teaching purpose

 

[Hobie]

Private interpretations like yours or mine as heresies are our own personal commentary on what we think the Holy Spirit is teaching.

Like you stated breath of life. Its death that must be defined which is asleep waiting for the wakeup call on the last day under the Sun

Death the letter of the law suffering the daily pangs of hell . Both tossed in the fiery judgment of Christ. The death of death.

Lazarus demonstration 4 days. Jesus the Son of Man three days. Different teaching purpose

Thats why we must go by Gods Word, not mans ideas..

 

[Hobie]

Christians have been confused by the many Greek pagan myths and philosophy was allowed in, and scripture was thrown aside, and we can see what they did if we only dig below the surface...

Here is a good study on the history of hell that I came across:

"...The word Hell, in the Old Testament, is always a translation of the Hebrew word Sheol, which occurs sixty-four times, and is rendered "hell" thirty-two times, "grave" twenty-nine times, and "pit" three times.

1. By examination of the Hebrew Scriptures it will be found that its radical or primary meaning is, The place or state of the dead.

The following are examples: "Ye shall bring down my gray hairs with sorrow to the grave." Gen. xvii 38. "I will go down to the grave to my son mourning." xxxviii 35. "O that thou wouldst hide me in the grave!" Job xiV 13. "My life draweth nigh to the grave." Ps. lxxxviiI 3. "In the grave who shall give thee thanks?" lxxxvi 5. "Our bones are scattered at the grave's mouth." cxlI 7. "There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Ecc. ix. 10. "If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold thou art there." Ps. cxxxix. 8. "Hell from beneath is moved to meet thee, at thy coming. It stirreth up the dead for thee," &c. Isaiah xiV 9-15.

These passages show the Hebrew usage of the word sheol, which is the original of the word "grave" and "hell" in all the examples cited. It is plain that it has here no reference to a place of endless torment after death. The patriarch would scarcely say, "I will go down to an endless hell to my son mourning." He did not believe his son was in any such place. Job would not very likely pray to God to hide him in a place of endless torment, in order to be delivered from his troubles.

If the reader will substitute the word "hell" in the place of "grave" in all these passages, he will be in the way of understanding the Scripture doctrine on this subject.

2. But there is also a figurative sense to the word sheol, which is frequently met with in the later Scriptures of the Old Testament. Used in this sense, it represents a state of degradation or calamity, arising from any cause, whether misfortune, sin, or the judgment of God.

This is an easy and natural transition. The state or the place of the dead was regarded as solemn and gloomy, and thence the word sheol, the name of this place, came to be applied to any gloomy, or miserable state or condition. The following passages are examples: "The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me." Psalm xvii 4-6. This was a past event, and therefore the hell must have been this side of death. Solomon, speaking of a child, says, "Thou shalt beat him, and deliver his soul from hell;" that is, from the ruin and woe of disobedience. ProV xxiiI 14. The Lord says to Israel, in reference to their idolatries, "Thou didst debase thyself even unto hell." Isaiah lvii 9. This, of course, signifies a state of utter moral degradation and wickedness, since the Jewish nation as such certainly never went down into a hell of ceaseless woe. Jonah says, "Out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardst me." ii 2. Here we see the absurdity of supposing sheol or hell to mean a place of punishment after death. The hell in this case was the belly of the whale; or rather the wretched and suffering condition in which the disobedient prophet found himself. "The pains of hell got hold on me: I found trouble and sorrow." Ps. cxvi 3. Yet David was a living man, all this while, here on the earth. So he exclaims again, "Great is thy mercy towards me. Thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell." Ps. lxxxvi 13. Now here the Psalmist was in the lowest hell, and was delivered from it, while he was yet in the body, before death. Of course the hell here cannot be a place of endless punishment after death.

These passages sufficiently illustrate the figurative usage of the word sheol, "hell." They show plainly that it was employed by the Jews as a symbol or figure of extreme degradation or suffering, without reference to the cause. And it is to this condition the Psalmist refers when he says, "The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God." Ps. ix. 17. Though Dr. Allen, President of Bowdoin College, thinks "the punishment expressed here is cutting off from life, destroying from earth by some special judgment, and removing to the invisible place of the dead" (sheol).

It is plain, then, from these citations, that the word sheol, "hell," makes nothing for the doctrine of future unending punishment as a part of the Law penalties. It is never used by Moses or the Prophets in the sense of a place of torment after death; and in no way conflicts with the statement already proved, that the Law of Moses deals wholly in temporal rewards and punishments....

 

[Hobie]

..This position, also, I wish to fortify by the testimony of Orthodox critics, men of learning and candor. They know, and therefore they speak.

1. CHAPMAN. "Sheol, in itself considered, has no connection with future punishment." Cited by Balfour, First Inquiry.

2. DR. ALLEN, quoted above, says: "The term sheol does not seem to mean, with certainty, anything more than the state of the dead in their deep abode."

3. DR. CAMPBELL. "Sheol signifies the state of the dead without regard to their happiness or misery."

4. DR. WHITBY. "Sheol throughout the Old Testament signifies not the place of punishment, or of the souls of bad men only, but the grave only, or the place of death."

5. DR. MUENSCHER. This distinguished author of a Dogmatic History in German, says: "The souls or shades of the dead wander in sheol, the realm or kingdom of death, an abode deep under the earth. Thither go all men, without distinction, and hope for no return. There ceases all pain and anguish; there reigns an unbroken silence; there all is powerless and still; and even the praise of God is heard no more."

6. VON COELLN. "Sheol itself is described as the house appointed for all living, which receives into its bosom all mankind, without distinction of rank, wealth, or moral character. It is only in the mode of death, and not in the condition after death, that the good are distinguished above the evil. The just, for instance, die in peace, and are gently borne away before the evil comes; while a bitter death breaks the wicked like as a tree." 2

These witnesses all testify that sheol, or hell, in the Old Testament, has no reference whatever to this doctrine; that it signifies simply the state of the dead, the invisible world, without regard to their goodness or badness, their happiness or misery. The Old Testament doctrine of hell, therefore, is not the doctrine of endless punishment. It is not revealed in the Law of Moses. It is not revealed in the Old Testament....

Any one at all familiar with the writings of the ancient Greeks or Romans, cannot fail to note how often it is admitted by them that the national religions were the inventions of the legislator and the priest, for the purpose of governing and restraining the common people. Hence, all the early lawgivers claim to have had communications with the gods, who aided them in the preparation of their codes. Zoroaster claimed to have received his laws from a divine source; Lycurgus obtained his from Apollo, Minos of Crete from Jupiter, Numa of Rome from Egeria, Zaleucus from Minerva, &c. The object of this sacred fraud was to impress the minds of the multitude with religious awe, and command a more ready obedience on their part. Hence Augustine says, in his "City of God," "This seems to have been done on no other account, but as it was the business of princes, out of their wisdom and civil prudence, to deceive the people in their religion; princes, under the name of religion, persuaded the people to believe those things true, which they themselves knew to be idle fables; by this means, for their own ease in government, tying them the more closely to civil society." B. iV 32....

 

[Hobie]

...Of course, in order to secure obedience, they were obliged to invent divine punishments for the disobedience of what they asserted to be divine laws. "Hence," says Bishop Warburton, "they enforced the belief of a future state of rewards and punishments by every sort of contrivance." And speaking of the addition of metempsychosis, or the transmigration of souls, he says: "This was an ingenious solution, invented by the Egyptian lawgivers, to remove all doubts concerning the moral attributes of God."

Egypt has been called the "Mother of Superstitions," and her whole religious history shows the propriety of the appellation. Greeks and Romans, Lawgivers and Philosophers, acknowledge their indebtedness to her in this respect, and freely credit her with the original invention of the fables and terrors of the invisible world; though it must be allowed that they have improved somewhat upon the hints given, and shown a wonderful inventive faculty of their own.

Dr. Good has a curious passage on the subject in hand, in his Book of Nature, which I must be permitted to introduce here. "It was believed in most countries," he says, "that this hell, hades, or invisible world, is divided into two very distinct and opposite regions, by a broad and impassable gulf; that the one is a seat of happiness, a paradise, or elysium, and the other a seat of misery, a gehenna, or tartarus; and that there is a supreme magistrate and an impartial tribunal belonging to the infernal shades, before which the ghosts must appear, and by which they are sentenced to the one or the other, according to the deeds done in the body. Egypt is said to have been the inventress of this important and valuable part of the tradition; and undoubtedly it is to be found in the earliest records of Egyptian history. But, from the wonderful conformity of its outlines to the parallel doctrines of the Scriptures, it is probable that it has a still higher origin, and that it constituted a part of the patriarchal creed, retained in a few channels, though forgotten or obliterated in others, and consequently that it was a divine communication in a very early age.

This last assertion is certainly a singular statement for a man of Dr. Good's learning and judgment. For, first, it does not conform at all to the doctrine of the Scriptures in regard to rewards and punishments, as our inquiry has fully shown. And, second, the patriarchal creed makes no mention of it, as far as we know; and if it made part of an early revelation, afterwards lost, it is reasonable to suppose that it would have been renewed again in the revelation to the Law of Moses.

Beside, if the Egyptians obtained it from any of the patriarchs, it must have been from Jacob or his descendants, after they went down into Egypt. It must have been a current doctrine, therefore, among the Israelites, and regarded by them as of divine authority; but this conclusion is shut off by the fact that Moses, though divinely commissioned as their teacher, rejects it from his law, and shows his unbelief and contempt for it by a studied and unbroken silence! Curious, indeed, if Dr. Good's supposition is correct. We find the doctrine in full bloom with the Egyptians, but not a trace of it among the early Hebrews. But, singularly enough, when, in after ages, the Jews had become corrupted, and had departed from the Law of Moses, we find the doctrine among them. And, what is very noteworthy, as the next chapter will show, its first appearance is in apocryphal books written by Egyptian Jews. So that the facts happen to be the very opposite of Dr. Good's theory; - instead of the Egyptians borrowing it from the Jews, the Jews borrowed it from the Egyptians.

In attempting to set out the Egyptian notions on the subject, it is difficult to choose between the conflicting accounts of the Greek writers, Herodotus, Diodorus Siculus, Plutarch, &c., as well as of the modern interpreters of the monumental hieroglyphics. Still, with regard to the main question, they are tolerably well agreed, though there is great diversity of opinion in respect to the details. It is plain enough, from their united testimony, that the whole matter of judgment after death, the rewards of a good life, and the punishments of a bad life, with all the formal solemnities of trial and condemnation, originated and was perfected among the Egyptians, according to the peculiar character of their mythology. From them it was borrowed by the Greeks, who made such changes and additions as fitted the system to the genius and circumstances of that people.

It would seem that each district of Egypt had what was called its "sacred lake," beyond which were the tombs and burial-places of the dead. Acherusia, the lake near Memphis, was the model probably for the rest, and appears to have furnished a general name for them.

When any one died, it was the duty of his relations, according to Diodorus, to notify the forty-two judges or assessors, whose office it was to decide upon the character of the deceased, and then to appoint the day for the funeral ceremonies and burial. When the day came, the body of the dead was carried in procession to the shore of the lake, from which it could not be removed till after the judgment. The forty-two judges, having been summoned, were in waiting at the place of embarkation, to receive the body, and enter on the trial. It was then lawful, for any person who thought proper, to bring charges against the deceased; and if it was proved that he had led an evil life, the judges condemned him for his wickedness, and refused him the privilege of burial, which was regarded as one of the greatest possible calamities. But if those accusing the dead failed to establish their accusations, they were subjected to the heaviest penalties.

If there was no accuser, or the charges were disproved, then his relations were allowed to pronounce the accustomed eulogy, praising his piety and goodness, celebrating his virtues, and declaring the excellent life which he had lived. This was followed by a prayer supplicating the gods of the under-world to receive him into the society of the blessed. Then came the acclamations of the multitude assembled on the occasion, who united in extolling the character of the dead, and in rejoicing that he was now going to join the virtuous in the regions of Amenti or Hades.

This over, the body was placed in the funeral boat, under the direction of Horus, the ferryman of the dead, and borne across the lake to its place of sepulture. This done, the ceremonies of the occasion closed.

The bodies of those who had been refused burial were carried back by the family, and the coffins set up against the wall of the house. The spirit could not be at rest until the body was buried. "The duration of this punishment was limited," says Wilkinson, "according to the extent of crimes of which the accused had been guilty. When the devotion of friends, aided by liberal donations in the service of religion, and the influential prayers of the priests, had sufficiently softened the otherwise inexorable nature of the gods, the period of this state of purgatory was doubtless shortened." 8

Beside this judgment on earth, it appears there was another after the dead entered the regions of Amenti or Hades. For what reason, we cannot say, except the judges of the invisible world were a kind of superior court, who examined the case anew, with the view of correcting any errors of the previous trial.

Sir J.G. Wilkinson informs us that "the judgment scenes found in the tombs and on the papyri, sometimes represent the deceased conducted by Horus to the region of AmentI Cerberus is present as the guardian of the gates, near which the scales of justice were erected. Anubis, 'the director of the weight,' having placed a vase representing the good actions, or the heart of the deceased, in one scale, and the figure or emblem of truth in the other, proceeds to ascertain his claims for admission. If, on being 'weighed,' he is 'found wanting,' he is rejected; and Osiris, the judge of the dead, inclining the scepter in token of condemnation, pronounces judgment upon him, and condemns his soul to return to earth under the form of a pig, or some other unclean animal. Placed in a boat, it is removed, under the charge of two monkeys, from the precincts of Amenti, all communication with which is figuratively cut off by a man who hews away the earth with an ax after its passage; and the commencement of a new term of life is indicated by the monkeys, the emblems of Thoth, as Time. But if, when the sum of his deeds have been recorded, his virtues so far predominate as to entitle him to admission to the mansions of the blessed, Horus introduces him to Osiris." 9

It is with this judgment, at the point where the condemned soul is sent back again to the earth in the form of an animal, that the doctrine of transmigration seems to connect itself...

 

[Hobie]

...According to Herodotus, the Egyptians believed the soul would pass from one body to another, till it had performed the circuit of all animals, terrestrial, marine, and birds of the air; when it again takes up its abode in the human body. This transmigration it was supposed would fill up a period of three thousand years.

There is great diversity of opinion in regard to the particulars of this curious arrangement, but the leading idea appears to have been the punishment of the wicked; for the wicked only, according to some authorities, were subject to it, the good and pious being received immediately, on the burial of the body, into rest, or returning to the Good Being whence they emanated. And it would seem, according to Wilkinson, that it was only the ordinarily wicked, not the very worst, who were condemned to this purgatory. He thinks that the monuments show "that the souls which underwent transmigration were those of men whose sins were of a sufficiently moderate kind to admit of that purification; the unpardonable sinner being condemned to eternal fire," by which he means endless fire.

These records of the ancient Greeks, confirmed by the monuments as illustrated by modern scholars, open to us the origin of the doctrines of a judgment after death, and of future endless rewards and punishments, for the good or evil deeds of this life. From the Egyptians it passed, with suitable modifications, to the Greeks and Romans. Diodorus himself clearly shows that the fables of the Acherusian lake, of Hecate, Cerberus, Charon, and the Styx, have their original in these Egyptian ceremonies and doctrines.

And Professor Stuart, in a note to Greppo's Essay on Hieroglyphics, accepts the statement of Spineto, that the Amenti of the Egyptians originated the classic fables of Hades and Tartarus, Charon, Pluto, the judges of hell, the dog Cerberus, the Chimeras, Harpies, Gorgons, Furies, "and other such unnatural and horrible things with which the Greeks and Romans peopled their fantastic hell."
It is curious to note the exactness of the copy in many particulars. The Egyptian Acherusia gives us the Greek Acheron, and perhaps Styx. The Egyptian Tartar, significant of the lamentations of relatives over the dead refused burial on account of their wicked lives, furnishes the Greek Tartarus, where the wicked are punished. The funeral boat across the lake, the ferryman, and the gold piece in the mouth of the dead, give rise to Charon, his boat, and fee, and the passage across the Styx into Hades. The cemetery beyond the lake, surrounded by trees, called by the Egyptians Elisout or Elisaeus, is the original of the Greek Elysian Fields, the abode of the blessed. The three infernal judges, Minos, Aeacus, Rhadamanthus, are borrowed from the Egyptian judges of the dead; and the heads of animals symbolizing these judges, mistaken by the Greeks, are changed into monster Gorgons, Harpies, Furies, &c.

But, as I have remarked, though the Greeks borrowed, they altered and improved. And, true to that individualism which was so marked a characteristic of that people, they are not satisfied with the Egyptian method of generalizing respecting the punishments of the wicked, but begin specifying particular sinners, and particular kinds of punishment adapted to particular offenses. Hence the fables of Ixion, Tantalus, Tityrus, &c., whose torments in the infernal regions are mentioned in the beginning of this chapter. Everything must be sharp, pointed, and dramatic, to suit the lively genius of the Greek; and the terrors of the invisible world must be presented in a way to strike the imagination in the most powerful manner, and produce some direct result on the individual and on society.

The whole thing is designed for effect, to influence the multitude, to restrain their passions, and to aid the magistrate and ruler in keeping them subject to authority. It is the invention of priests and law-makers, who take this as the easiest method of governing the people. They claim the "right divine" to govern; claim that their laws originate with the gods, as we have shown above; and that, therefore, the gods will visit on all offenders the terrors and tortures of the damned. Hence, through the joint cunning of priest and legislator, of church and state, mutually supporting each the other, we have all the stupendous frauds and falsehoods respecting the invisible world.

But, without further remarks of my own, I will introduce the testimony of the heathen themselves on this point, and those the best informed among them, who will tell their own story in their own way. One preliminary observation, however, partly made already, I wish to repeat; and I desire the reader to have it always in mind: The rulers and magistrates, or priests, invent these terrors to keep the people, the masses, in subjection; the people religiously believe in them; while the inventors, of course, and the educated classes, the priests and the philosophers, though they teach them to the multitude, have themselves no manner of faith in them.

1. Polybius, the historian, says: "Since the multitude is ever fickle, full of lawless desires, irrational passions and violence, there is no other way to keep them in order but by the fear and terror of the invisible world; on which account our ancestors seem to me to have acted judiciously, when they contrived to bring into the popular belief these notions of the gods, and of the infernal regions." B. vi 56.

2. Dionysius Halicarnassus treats the whole matter as useful, but not as true. Antiq. Rom., B. ii

3. Livy, the celebrated historian, speaks of it in the same spirit; and he praises the wisdom of Numa, because he invented the fear of the gods, as "a most efficacious means of governing an ignorant and barbarous populace." Hist., I 19.

4. Strabo, the geographer, says: "The multitude are restrained from vice by the punishments the gods are said to inflict upon offenders, and by those terrors and threatenings which certain dreadful words and monstrous forms imprint upon their minds...For it is impossible to govern the crowd of women, and all the common rabble, by philosophical reasoning, and lead them to piety, holiness and virtue - but this must be done by superstition, or the fear of the gods, by means of fables and wonders; for the thunder, the aegis, the trident, the torches (of the Furies), the dragons, &c., are all fables, as is also all the ancient theology. These things the legislators used as scarecrows to terrify the childish multitude." Geog., B. I

5. Timaeus Locrus, the Pythagorean, after stating that the doctrine of rewards and punishments after death is necessary to society, proceeds as follows: "For as we sometimes cure the body with unwholesome remedies, when such as are most wholesome produce no effect, so we restrain those minds with false relations, which will not be persuaded by the truth. There is a necessity, therefore, of instilling the dread of those foreign torments: 10as that the soul changes its habitation; that the coward is ignominiously thrust into the body of a woman; the murderer imprisoned within the form of a savage beast; the vain and inconstant changed into birds, and the slothful and ignorant into fishes."

6. Plato, in his commentary on Timaeus, fully endorses what he says respecting the fabulous invention of these foreign torments. And Strabo says that "Plato and the Brahmins of India invented fables concerning the future judgments of hell" (Hades). And Chrysippus blames Plato for attempting to deter men from wrong by frightful stories of future punishments.

Plato himself is exceedingly inconsistent, sometimes adopting, even in his serious discourses, the fables of the poets, and at other times rejecting them as utterly false, and giving too frightful views of the invisible world. Sometimes, he argues, on social grounds, that they are necessary to restrain bad men from wickedness and crime, and then again he protests against them on political grounds, as intimidating the citizens, and making cowards of the soldiers, who, believing these things, are afraid of death, and do not therefore fight well. But all this shows in what light he regarded them; not as truths, certainly, but as fictions, convenient in some cases, but difficult to manage in others.

7. Plutarch treats the subject in the same way; sometimes arguing for them with great solemnity and earnestness, and on other occasions calling them "fabulous stories, the tales of mothers and nurses."

8. Seneca says: "Those things which make the infernal regions terrible, the darkness, the prison, the river of flaming fire, the judgment seat, &c., are all a fable, with which the poets amuse themselves, and by them agitate us with vain terrors." Sextus Empiricus calls them "poetic fables of hell;" and Cicero speaks of them as "silly absurdities and fables" (ineptiis ac fabulis).

9. Aristotle. "It has been handed down in mythical form from earliest times to posterity, that there are gods, and that the divine (Deity) compasses all nature. All beside this has been added, after the mythical style, for the purpose of persuading the multitude, and for the interests of the laws, and the advantage of the state." Neander's Church Hist., I, p. 7. ...http://godfire.net/Doctrine_of_Endless_Punishment.htm"

 

[Mr GLee]

Christians have been confused by the many Greek pagan myths and philosophy was allowed in, and scripture was thrown aside, and we can see what they did if we only dig below the surface

That makes a interesting study. Satan the father of identity theft. Stealing the power of the unseen spiritual things of Christ the eternal one .

Note. . .(Blue) my offering


Acts 14:7-14 And there they preached the gospel.(the power of God unto salvation )And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: (walk in the gospel used to represent understand) The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, (who could not walk) and perceiving that he had faith (power of Christ to understand) to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. (the living word) And he leaped and walked. And when the people (unbelievers saw) what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; (the father of gods) and Paul, Mercurius, (the messenger or false apostle) because he was the chief speaker.Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying

Gods design. Again Mr. false identity . . I will be like God the creator a wolf in beautiful sheep's clothing . A snake with no legs to walk by faith Cut them off .

Moses like Jupiter. God prophesying preaching the gospel through Mercurius Aaron. The gospel ministry not after any man.


Exodus 7 King James VersionAnd the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak (preach) unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.

 

[Mr GLee]

Another offering .

Hell is a living sufferings . God does no commune with the dead (necromancy) .

Three days and nights with three denoting the end of a matter Jonas suffered "Belly of Whale. hell . same as "heart of earth" with the Son of man Jesus . crying out not a I will no power but your powerful will The will that worked in the Son of man Jesus . The promise prophecy of Genesis 3:15 with Isiah 53 . the bruising of the heel crushing the head of the serpent . Three times in agony he cried out for spiritual support from the apostles, three times the father put them asleep to fulfill the prohecy of two. (three a crowd) .

I call the dynamic dual. The Father not seen working in the heart of Son of man Jesus seen . Then he woke them up and went to the second the bloody demonstration the cross and third the Tomb.

Jonah 2King James Version2 Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

Matthew 26:37-39 King James Version And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

In that way wounded for our transgression . Christ cannot die. he poured out his born again spirit life on dying flesh In jeapordy of his own Spirit life .He gives us little.

I think most know what it like to feel alone. (garden Gethsemane) . resist the "heart of the earth". . . "belly of the whale" .

Happy wife happy life lol

 

[Josheb]

There are those who say that if you are acquainted with the Bible and deny the eternal punishment of the wicked, you are not honest. That if the judgment of the wicked is not forever, then salvation of the saints is not forever, because the term of forever is used of both.
So is the judgment of the wicked forever or can they escape it by doing a little time in the fires of hell as some teach. Can the Devil as a being created by God, also continue forever then in a abode under the ground, and sin continue, I would say not. So what is meant by the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades/Hell and how did it get twisted into this idea of a fiery underworld with Satan in charge, lets begin with some of the pagan ideas that caused much of the confusion, lets start with Purgatory and the Greek ideas that came in.

Purgatory as a doctrine teaches that a Christian's soul must burn in purgatory after death until all of their sins have been purged. To speed up the purging process, money could be paid to a priest so he could pray and have special masses for an earlier release, and much money was made with this doctrine. Purgatory is given as a way that no matter how sinful or unbelieving, when you die, you go to Purgatory and get things sorted out and finally get to heaven, so no acceptance of Christ is needed, you can buy your way in. But is it in the Bible, if you look it doesnt show it anywhere, so where did it come from. It comes from apostasy, it is a corrupt pagan doctrine, which was allowed into the church.

This pagan idea began creeping into the church around the end of the sixth century, and it has no scriptural support. In fact, Jesus warned us about this pagan practice in Matthew 23:14 when He spoke of those who devoured widows houses and made long prayers for a pretense. Psalm 49:6-7 tells us that a person couldn't redeem a loved one, even if such a place did exist: "They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches; None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:"
Peter addresses this issue in Acts 8:20 when he says, "Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money." God's word is clearly against the doctrine of purgatory.

The Greeks, as in some measure the Egyptians before them, created myths of the afterlife which spread throughout the Hellenistic world, and even into words which were used when the Hebrew text was translated into the Greek. Scripture clearly rejects the Greek notion of the immortality of the soul disembodied from the here and now as spirit beings, and early Christians affirmed the resurrection of the body just as Lazuras was resurrected by Christ. So there is no place for a underworld depicted in Greek myths or place of cleansing by fire such as purgotary where spirit beings are left till they are ready to be reunited with God, it comes from other origins which we shall see.

Purgatory as a transitional condition has from many sources, a origin from the pagan belief of caring for the dead and praying for them, and to the belief that prayer for the dead contributed to their afterlife purification. Pagan tradition created this place of purgatory which leaves hope after death for the wicked, who, at the time of their death, are unrepentant and cling to their love of sin.

In Egypt, substantially the same doctrine of purgatory was taught as in modern times and its priests created grand funerals and masses for the dead, along with celebration of prayer and other services for the soul of the dead. The priest who officiated at the burial service was selected from the grade of Pontiffs who wore the leopard skin; but various other rites were performed by one of the minor priests to the mummies, previous to their being lowered into the pit of the tomb after that ceremony. They practiced elaborate ceremonies to prepare the pharaohs for their next life, constructing massive pyramids and other elaborate tombs filled with luxuries the deceased were supposed to need in the hereafter. The famous Book of the Dead, a collection of ancient Egyptian funerary and ritual texts, describes in great detail how to meet the challenges of the afterlife. The pagan Egyptian belief was when the body died, parts of its soul known as ka (body double) and the ba (personality) would go to the Kingdom of the Dead. While the soul dwelt in the Fields of Aaru, Osiris demanded work as restitution for the protection he provided. Statues were placed in the tombs to serve as substitutes for the deceased.

The Egyptian belief in the immortality of the soul existed centuries before Judaism, Hellenism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, and Islam. According to Herodotus, eventually the Greeks adopted from the Egyptians the belief in the immortality of the soul. He wrote: 'The Egyptians also were the first who asserted the doctrine that the soul of man is immortal . . . This opinion, some among the Greeks have at different periods of time adopted as their own.' The Greek philosopher Socrates (470-399 B. C.) traveled to Egypt to consult the Egyptians on their teachings on the immortality of the soul. Upon his return to Greece, he imparted this teaching to his most famous pupil, Plato.......

In Greece the doctrine of a purgatory was spread through the Greek mystery religions and even was spoken by one of its major philosophers. Plato, speaking of the future judgment of the dead, holds out the hope of final deliverance for all, but maintains that, of "those who are judged," some must first "proceed to a subterranean place of judgment, where they shall sustain the punishment they have deserved." The ancient Greeks sacrificed on the thirteenth day (after death) to Mercury as the conductor of the dead, they also had sacrifice which, according to Plato, "was offered for the living and the dead, and was supposed to free them from all the evils to which the wicked are liable when they have left this world.

In ancient Rome, the pagan priests also picked up and spread purgatory to the pagans, but as a belief in the early church it was not immediately picked up. From earliest times Greek religious beliefs were a strong influence in Italy, and the Graeco-Roman world was essentially one in its religious and philosophic views of the afterlife. There was no mention of the doctrine during the first two centuries of the church, it has no basis in scripture, the apostles did not teach it, nor did Christ.

Hmmm... Do you think Jesus was teaching idolatrous pagan religions?

 

[Mr GLee]

There are those who say that if you are acquainted with the Bible and deny the eternal punishment of the wicked, you are not honest. That if the judgment of the wicked is not forever, then salvation of the saints is not forever, because the term of forever is used of both.
So is the judgment of the wicked forever or can they escape it by doing a little time in the fires of hell as some teach. Can the Devil as a being created by God, also continue forever then in a abode under the ground, and sin continue, I would say not. So what is meant by the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades/Hell and how did it get twisted into this idea of a fiery underworld with Satan in charge, lets begin with some of the pagan ideas that caused much of the confusion, lets start with Purgatory and the Greek ideas that came in.

I would offer There are those who say that if you are acquainted with the Bible and deny the eternal punishment . . thier corrupted flesh return to the field of clay and the temporal spirit of the father of all spirt life given under the letter of the law Death (thou shall not or in dying you will come to a end. They are not honest.

That if the judgment of the wicked is not forever,(never to rise to new spirt life) then salvation of the saints is not forever, because the term of forever is used of both.

The bible is the writen law that testifies God Truth moved men his easy way :"Let there be. .moved and the mountain "it was cast into the sea."

More of a place to discus theology as it is writen by the finger (will) of God .Not philosophies vain oral traditons of dying mankind .

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Spiritual not seen compared to the invisible . Not the literal temporal seen to the same temporal Understand or walk by the eternal invisible

He will not be found under a microscope or a telescope