A quick thought on purgatory.
Paul warns believers to be aware of being taken captive by hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world, rather than on Christ. Col 2:8 See to it that there is no one who takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception in accordance with human tradition, in accordance with the elementary principles of the world, rather than in accordance with Christ.
And Purgatory is a philosophical concept that finds its source in the teachings of men, rather than in the word of God.
It stems from the perversion of a biblical teaching of the sacrifice of Christ and on the way forgiveness of sins is appropriated.
Scripture teaches that a believer is complete in Christ and that Christ's work is sufficient to deal with the entire penalty of sin. It is a contradiction and perversion to add the works of man and the idea of expiating sin through suffering as a basis of salvation.
I sometimes wonder why people post objection. knowing what the answer will be - or at least - the clever ones do.
picking apart that post.
The first part is a generic attack on all who do not hold your view of the meaning of any part of scripture .
“Paul warns believers to be aware of being taken captive by hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world, rather than on Christ. Col 2:8 See to it that there is no one who takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception in accordance with human tradition, in accordance with the elementary principles of the world, rather than in accordance with Christ.”
So I can use the same attack anywhere I disagree with you. Why bother?
You there also attack “ tradition” , when Paul himself asks you to stay true to “tradition “ , which in proper context “ paradosis” means the “ faith handed down “ which was the ONLY mechanism for the handing down of faith in early christianity.
it hands down the meaning of scripture.
The man made traditions to which Jesus is opposed is what Pharisees imposed on that such as ritual washing.
You then say “ scripture teaches” .
Two problems there.
First “ what is scripture”
And
“ what does what is scripture “ teach. ( by Which you mean your opinion Of it)
We disagree on both.
On the first part “ what is scripture”
the pillar of truth is the church, scripture says so. It spoke on scripture.
The church in council and Rome decided the canon , and in its wisdom and with power to bind and loose , included maccabees,
Macabees identifies “prayers for the dead. “ Jesus went to the Festival of Lights so asserting his backing for maccabees which it celebrates . Judaism offers prayers for the dead.in the “ El Malei Rachamim” ( not Kaddish) . Orthodox offer prayers for the dead.
so the question is not why we do do that, or why we accept maccabees, the entire church did till recent times. the question is why you don’t?
You may not like maccabees , just like luther didn’t like james because James didn’t line up with Luther’s theology , which luther put. in front of all else. The cart in front of the horse. He decided what scripture means then weeded out what disagreed with him! The arrogance . The temerity !
but you don’t get to decide what scripture is . The church given power to bind and loose, spoke on it it in the 4th century . The subject is closed.
So the question is why did you throw maccabees out?
Tell me what state are the souls in? In which catholic, orthodox and Judaism, prayer is helpful After death?
ie everyone else BUT Protestants.
The church speaks little of it. We know little of it. Our concepts of time, state and place are too weak to describe life beyond this.
As for what does scripture teach..
We do know that only the pure can enter heaven, we know we are not pure. Or the self aware ones of us do!
So there must be a purgation Between the two.
The orthodox agree using different terminology, their council at Jerusalem describes a purgation . A hospital not a prison.
Christ in the cross made salvation possible .
Not inevitable.
Paul himself says…
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is,
the church."
He rejoices in his sufferings for the sake of the church.
So the question then is not about suffering or what is lacking in christs affliction-both are there - but what your personally think that means?
I have asked elsewhere what flavour of christianity you are? . It helps to know because different groups use words differently which leads to disagreement. Eg one section of Lutheranism achieved agreement with the Holy See on “ faith alone” by agreeing on a definition of faith. We use words differently.
