Purgatory
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That text has nothing to do with apostate Romes "penance."
To deny oneself is to die to sin.
Nowhere does the NT tell us to do "penance."
That seems to be an evolution in the RCC of "repentance" to "penitence" to "penance."
There is no NT warrant for "penance."
Yes Christ merits!
Works alone apart from Christ and grace and his blood accomplish nothing Jn 15:5
Apart from him you can do nothing
So its also true with him you can do all things
Phil 4:13
Oh my! You forgot indulgences!
Let me help
Indulgences are graces merited by the passion and blood of Christ.
Jn 1:16
They have nothing to do with sin or salvation, (mercy) upon true repentance but the punishment due to sin. (Justice)
Example
A father may forgive (mercy) his son for hitting a ball thru the window, but the son will have work and pay for the window. (Justice)
Indulgences we’re never sold, that was only an accusation, they were attached to a donation, the English Protestant statement “salvation by the shilling” was complete non-sense!
If we sin after baptism we must repent and confess and receive God’s mercy but then we must do penance to expiate the temporal punishment due to God’s justice for sin and if fail to do so in this life God provides a means to do so by suffering in purgatory, and the prayers and penances of living saints can give relief to those in purgatory.
Thanks
Let me help
Indulgences are graces merited by the passion and blood of Christ.
Jn 1:16
They have nothing to do with sin or salvation, (mercy) upon true repentance but the punishment due to sin. (Justice)
Example
A father may forgive (mercy) his son for hitting a ball thru the window, but the son will have work and pay for the window. (Justice)
Indulgences we’re never sold, that was only an accusation, they were attached to a donation, the English Protestant statement “salvation by the shilling” was complete non-sense!
If we sin after baptism we must repent and confess and receive God’s mercy but then we must do penance to expiate the temporal punishment due to God’s justice for sin and if fail to do so in this life God provides a means to do so by suffering in purgatory, and the prayers and penances of living saints can give relief to those in purgatory.
Thanks
We can do nothing to add to Christ's merit, nor can we do anything to merit for ourselves.
It is all Christ's work in us for the glory of the Father.
D
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Help? Nope. It's rather a fail.
This is one of the worst twistings of Scripture I've seen in awhile. Goodness sake...
Nope. Not what Scripture says.
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive (i.e., remit) our sins." (1 Jn 1:8-10).
No penance and purgatory needed.
Your God is too small.
Illuminator
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Nobody said or implied merit is required for salvation. That falsehood is preached by prominent Calvinist teachers like James Mccarthy. He has been around Catholic apologists for years, and knows full well that Catholicism does not teach "works salvation" or derivatives thereof. He knows better, but lies about it anyway with books and a videos.
First, though: some preliminary observations. As usual, McCarthy (along with many other Calvinist anti-Catholics) is unwilling or unable to understand the relationship of human free will to God’s grace. We believe we can cooperate with God’s grace in order to “merit.” Yet that very merit is itself completely an act of God’s grace. Here is some more relevant information to consider:
The Second Council of Orange (529 A.D.), dogmatically taught in its Canon 7:
Likewise, the ecumenical Council of Trent (1545-63): Chapter 5, Decree on Justification:
Canon I on Justification:
The existence of a measure of human free will in order for man to cooperate with God’s grace does not reduce inevitably and necessarily to Semi-Pelagianism, as Luther, Calvin, and present-day Calvinists wrongly charge. The Catholic view is a third way. Our “meritorious actions” are always necessarily preceded and caused and crowned and bathed in God’s enabling grace. But this doesn’t wipe out our cooperation, which is not intrinsically meritorious in the sense that it derives from us and not God . . . Second Orange again:
Catholic theologian Ludwig Ott describes the Catholic view:
St. Augustine wrote:
The concept of merit and its corollary reward is well-supported in Scripture (Mt 5:12; 19:17, 21, 29; 25:21; 25:34 ff.; Lk 6:38; Rom 2:6; 1 Cor 3:8; 9:17; Col 3:24; Heb 6:10; 10:35; 11:6; 2 Tim 4:8; Eph 6:8).
By isolating sentences (the classic and quintessential anti-Catholic methodology) which emphasize man’s cooperation and effort, it appears that McCarthy had hoped to leave a false impression that we believe we can get to heaven on our own power, pulling ourselves up by our own bootstraps, without God’s enabling grace. But this is the heresy of Pelagianism, which both Catholic dogma and Premm (even in immediate context) clearly condemn.
This is, therefore, apparently deliberate misrepresentation on McCarthy’s part, and that is a serious sin — a violation of the Ten Commandments and even basic pagan and secular ethical precepts. Whatever McCarthy or other anti-Catholics think of our theology, their own Christian tradition (as well as Jesus Himself) condemn them for slander and lying, whether we are Christian “brothers” or not, in their thinking. As we indeed are their brothers in Christ, their sin is all the greater. McCarthy’s polemical anti-Catholic video has also been clearly shown by Catholic apologetics magazine This Rock to be slanderous and grossly inaccurate. Let us hope and pray that he will repent, for his sake, and for the sake of the thousands he is leading astray.
source
Illuminator
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The Kaddish is a prayer that praises God and expresses a yearning for the establishment of God's kingdom on earth. The emotional reactions inspired by the Kaddish come from the circumstances in which it is said: it is recited at funerals and by mourners, and sons are required to say Kaddish for eleven months after the death of a parent.
The Mourners Kaddish
Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
EL MALE RAHAMIM (Heb. אֵל מָלֵא רַחֲמִים; "God full of compassion"), a prayer for the departed recited at the funeral service, on the anniversary of the death (*Yahrzeit), on visiting the graves of relatives (especially on the Ninth of *Av and during the month of Elul), or after having been called up to the reading of the Law (see *Ashkavah). In some Ashkenazi rites it is also part of the memorial service (*Hazkarat Neshamot) on the festivals and on the Day of Atonement.
El Male Rahamim
Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
Shalom
Im just trying to point out that whilst the Kaddish is said at funerals,The Kaddish is a prayer that praises God and expresses a yearning for the establishment of God's kingdom on earth. The emotional reactions inspired by the Kaddish come from the circumstances in which it is said: it is recited at funerals and by mourners, and sons are required to say Kaddish for eleven months after the death of a parent.
The Mourners Kaddish
Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
EL MALE RAHAMIM (Heb. אֵל מָלֵא רַחֲמִים; "God full of compassion"), a prayer for the departed recited at the funeral service, on the anniversary of the death (*Yahrzeit), on visiting the graves of relatives (especially on the Ninth of *Av and during the month of Elul), or after having been called up to the reading of the Law (see *Ashkavah). In some Ashkenazi rites it is also part of the memorial service (*Hazkarat Neshamot) on the festivals and on the Day of Atonement.
El Male Rahamim
Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
Shalom
the prayer for the souls of departed is the “el male rahamim”
The obvious question is what state are those souls in that prayer can make a difference for them?
If one must spend time in purgatory as penance for the sake of salvation, that is requiring merit.
Why do create a whole doctrine out one verse that never even says “the finished work of Christ”?
Can you be saved without a priest?
D
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All you are telling me and others is you cannot see truth in Scripture my friend. Here they are again, they plainly show the finished work of Christ that you are making a mockery of; (cf. Ephesians 2:1-10; Colossians 2:11ff; Hebrews 10:14; Romans 8:28-30)
Without a Catholic priest, I was saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved. This is all by the High Priest Jesus Christ, Hebrews 10:14. That is the Priest who saved me.
All you are telling me is you believe a man, a Catholic priest, saves, while denying the finished work of Christ, which is the only Person and thing that saves, and does it without and in spite of your priests.
Passover sacrifice!
Christ is High priest! Heb 8:1
The high priest must wear a seamless garment: Jn 19:23
Lk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
The Passover sacrifice began in the upper room then ended on the cross and declared "Tel Telesti" which means "It Is Finshed" or "It Is Completed".
Jesus was offered wine on at least two occasions before he was crucified. That is when he refused it.
It was when he was on the cross that John (remember he was an eye witness) records that Jesus instigated the offer of the wine when he said "I thirst" (John 19:28). When it was offered John records he received it. (vs 30).
Completing or the consummation of the Passover sacrifice!
The high priest must say at that point: “it is finished”!
Jn 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
The “it” is not “the finished work of Christ” but the “Passover sacrifice”that Christ changed from the old covenant into the new covenant in His blood! Jn 1:29 lamb of God!
The “finished work of Christ” is fundamentalist tradition created out of whole cloth, or just three words from Jn 19:30
Charity love of God?
Illuminator
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I demonstrated how your prominent Calvinist teachers, like McCarthy, are professional liars, who know better but lie anyway, and this is your only weak, impotent reply.
More?
Ok
Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing
Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
Are you pontifficating without authority authority?
Silly me and I thought “scripture was the only authority”!
You think there is another source of grace and truth?
