Prove the Practice of Worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son

[Arial]

Actually, certain hymns in all hymnals in ALL churches has the address & worship of only the Holy Spirit and even one hymn where they address the Father in one stanza and then the Son in another stanza and finally the Spirit in the third stanza.

And yet the phenomenon of the holy laughter movement has broken out across the denominational divide across USA in 1997 as reported by the 700 Club.

The link I had provided earlier and am doing it again below has reported the holy laughter movement manifesting all over the world in various Christian churches as reported by 700 Club as given in 2022.

HOLY LAUGHTER: Bringing Revival To The Church?

I am well aware of the holy laughter movement. If that is what you want to address, that is fine. Then address that. But don't put it under the umbrella of "Proof that we should not worship the Holy Spirit." Two wrongs to not make a right.

The term antichrist means instead of Christ and when there are spirits of the antichrist, thanks to Jesus, I understand that the real indwelling Holy Ghost would never take our eyes off of the Son in worship as He leads us to testify of the Son to glorify the Son and thereby honor and glorify God the Father and that is what scriptures has specifically told us to do but we allow that apostate Nicene creed to lead us astray still.

You need to focus your OP on what you are addressing is all I am saying. You have used an extreme error to dictate a conclusion. In doing so, what we have is another false doctrine---that the Holy Spirit is not worthy of worship even though he is God. We worship the Holy Spirit when we acknowledge the work that he did in the one, unified plan/work of redemption. Without the Holy Spirit's doing his "part" there would be no redemption, for it is he who brings the new birth, applying the work of Jesus to a person and community. It is the Holy Spirit that the Father and Jesus sends to regenerate those for whom Christ died, to indwell them, seal them in Christ, bear witness of their adoption, intercede for them in prayer according to the will of the Father when they don't know how to pray, teach them of Christ, give understanding of the Scripture, sanctify them, conforming them more and more into the image of Christ.

In the example you give, and many, many others, that is not worshiping the Holy Spirit. That is using his name, (for it is not him who brings about the unbiblical displays of chaos) and the stirring up of emotions in order to attempt to conjure him.

 

[ChristB4us]

Just because a person or people abuse a correct thing to do does not mean one should renounce doing the correct thing to do.

Then explain the cause and effect for such a phenomenon to occur other than taking your eyes off of the Son in worship?

And after such a phenomenon, why then when they pray to the Holy Spirit & address the Holy Spirit in worship to invoke that spirit to come again with signs and lying wonders, that is not the Holy Spirit answering that "honoring" of Him in worship?

That is why I see Jesus warning believers to watch and not suffer a thief to break through. Whom are we watching for/ The Bridegroom,

So ask Jesus Christ for help in keeping your eyes on the Son in worship in honoring the Son to glorify the Son and thereby honor & glorify God the Father.

 

[Arial]

@Arial Take note of this dissenting and yet apostate view coming from as identified with this Catholic faith.

catholic, not Catholic. The first means universal and was used in that way in Scripture, to denote that there is only one body of Christ, one Christian community, one set of teachings, and that is what we find in our Bible through the foundational writings of the apostles. The RCC borrowed the word and claimed it to be them. Get your facts straight. If you have a question as to what the poster meant, ask him before you make a presumptive statement such as this.

Because you did that you derailed your own thread and changed the subject to Catholicism instead of holy laughter.

 

[Fred]

Then explain the cause and effect for such a phenomenon to occur other than taking your eyes off of the Son in worship?

Satan takes that which is good and perverts it.
Simple.

 

[ChristB4us]

I am well aware of the holy laughter movement. If that is what you want to address, that is fine. Then address that. But don't put it under the umbrella of "Proof that we should not worship the Holy Spirit." Two wrongs to not make a right.

Then explain the cause and effect for such a phenomenon to occur other than taking your eyes off of the Son in worship?

And after such a phenomenon, why then when they pray to the Holy Spirit & address the Holy Spirit in worship to invoke that spirit to come again with signs and lying wonders, that is not the Holy Spirit answering that "honoring" of Him in worship?

That is why I see Jesus warning believers to watch and not suffer a thief to break through. Whom are we watching for/ The Bridegroom,

So ask Jesus Christ for help in keeping your eyes on the Son in worship in honoring the Son to glorify the Son and thereby honor & glorify God the Father.

You need to focus your OP on what you are addressing is all I am saying. You have used an extreme error to dictate a conclusion. In doing so, what we have is another false doctrine---that the Holy Spirit is not worthy of worship even though he is God. We worship the Holy Spirit when we acknowledge the work that he did in the one, unified plan/work of redemption. Without the Holy Spirit's doing his "part" there would be no redemption, for it is he who brings the new birth, applying the work of Jesus to a person and community. It is the Holy Spirit that the Father and Jesus sends to regenerate those for whom Christ died, to indwell them, seal them in Christ, bear witness of their adoption, intercede for them in prayer according to the will of the Father when they don't know how to pray, teach them of Christ, give understanding of the Scripture, sanctify them, conforming them more and more into the image of Christ.

In the example you give, and many, many others, that is not worshiping the Holy Spirit. That is using his name, (for it is not him who brings about the unbiblical displays of chaos) and the stirring up of emotions in order to attempt to conjure him.

By the grace of God and His help, I am putting the spotlight on the elephant in the room when nobody is discerning why that phenomenon occurs when it is because of their eyes being off of the Son in worship, prayer and fellowship which the Holy Spirit in us would never lead us to do but false teachings and that phenomenon of the spirit of the antichrist would.

Antichrist means instead of Christ and that is what is happening in worship, prayer, and fellowship.

 

[Fred]

Then explain the cause and effect for such a phenomenon to occur other than taking your eyes off of the Son in worship?

And after such a phenomenon, why then when they pray to the Holy Spirit & address the Holy Spirit in worship to invoke that spirit to come again with signs and lying wonders, that is not the Holy Spirit answering that "honoring" of Him in worship?

There are Unitarians who pray to Jesus.
Does that mean you should stop praying to Jesus?

 

[ChristB4us]

catholic, not Catholic. The first means universal and was used in that way in Scripture, to denote that there is only one body of Christ, one Christian community, one set of teachings, and that is what we find in our Bible through the foundational writings of the apostles. The RCC borrowed the word and claimed it to be them. Get your facts straight. If you have a question as to what the poster meant, ask him before you make a presumptive statement such as this.

Because you did that you derailed your own thread and changed the subject to Catholicism instead of holy laughter.

It is about the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son when said practice is nowhere found in the New Testament at all but there are scriptures specifying how God the father wants us to come to him by and how He specifically wants us to honor Him by and that is by His Son.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jesus meant that.

Jesus did not forget the Holy Spirit and I believe it is to keep our eyes on the Son to avoid those spirits of the antichrist that would be suffering a thief to break through and come in to the worship place to mislead everyone thing that was the Holy spirit when it was not.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber....

....7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

 

[ChristB4us]

There are Unitarians who pray to Jesus.
Does that mean you should stop praying to Jesus?

Scriptures teaches us Jesus is the only way to God the Father by and that we can pray to the Father by way of the Son as well.

I am referring to scriptures specific commandments to go to the Father by the only way provided John 14:6 and to only honor the Father by only honoring the Son. John 5:22-23

That is why there are no scriptures in any epistles to the churches for the practice of worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son so saved believers can void the spirits of the antichrist would can occur for climbing up another way as if God the Father will not mind it when obviously He does when the honoring of the Holy Spirit or the honoring of the blessed Trinity is not the will of God the Father for us to do.

Do you heed His words or do you just keep following traditions which is not taught in scriptures for you to do & suffer thief to break through?

 

[Fred]

That is why there are no scriptures in any epistles to the churches for the practice of worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son

Revelation 1:4-5 proves otherwise (post 3).

 

[Arial]

Then explain the cause and effect for such a phenomenon to occur other than taking your eyes off of the Son in worship?

The phenomenon has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit. It is pure flesh. Emotional and/or self centered outbursts. People seeking experiences and then manifesting them for others to see. And if there is anything real in it, any real spiritual force behind it, which is sometimes the case, it is the demonic counterfeit of the Holy Spirit. The false prophet we see in Revelation.

And after such a phenomenon, why then when they pray to the Holy Spirit & address the Holy Spirit in worship to invoke that spirit to come again with signs and lying wonders, that is not the Holy Spirit answering that "honoring" of Him in worship?

Well I don't think there are any praying for lying wonders. But you are mistaken if you think it is really the Holy Spirit answering their prayers or that they have really conjured him. They have been deceived. The angel of darkness has appeared as an angel of light. What we see in the large touring events such a Benny Hinn and even in large churches where apparent miracles occur is orchastrated and manipulated behind the scenes. (Take a gander at MacArthrur's book "Charismatic Chaos".) Don't believe everything you see.

So ask Jesus Christ for help in keeping your eyes on the Son in worship in honoring the Son to glorify the Son and thereby honor & glorify God the Father.

You are stepping outside your wheelhouse there. You know nothing about me or my relationship with God.

By the grace of God and His help, I am putting the spotlight on the elephant in the room when nobody is discerning why that phenomenon occurs when it is because of their eyes being off of the Son in worship, prayer and fellowship which the Holy Spirit in us would never lead us to do but false teachings and that phenomenon of the spirit of the antichrist would.

That is not why the phenomenon occurs. That is why some engage in the activity. And you take a giant impossible leap when you say "nobody". ANd your OP is not titled say---"The Elephant in the Room", or "How Not to Worship the Holy Spirit." It is titled "Prove the fact of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son". A very confusing title, but then the opening post make it clear you are teaching that we are not to worship the Holy Spirit at all, in any way shape or form. So don't get upset with me or any one else that comes along and says that we are to worship the Holy Spirit, but not is the way of the one example you give. I agree in that example and others like it, their eyes have been taken off of Jesus, and they are seeking the marvels and miracles they believe they can call upon the Holy Spirit to give them, and the emotional high of thinking that anything their flesh does or their feelings is evidence.

It is no different than those who followed Jesus for the loaves and fishes instead of seeking him. It is no different than seeking signs and wonders upon which to rest one's faith---rather than on Christ and him crucified and risen.

But that does not preclude the correct way of worshiping the Holy Spirit. Worship is in our heart, not in fleshly displays.

 

[ChristB4us]

Revelation 1:4-5 proves otherwise (post 3).

Revelation 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, KJV

I see nothing written about the practice of the worship of the holy Spirit with the Father & the Son and I still maintain that the 7 spirits before His throne are the 7 angels each being of one of those 7 churches as each warning and exhortation is to the angel of that church.

 

[ChristB4us]

The phenomenon has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit. It is pure flesh. Emotional and/or self centered outbursts. People seeking experiences and then manifesting them for others to see. And if there is anything real in it, any real spiritual force behind it, which is sometimes the case, it is the demonic counterfeit of the Holy Spirit. The false prophet we see in Revelation.

Explain how they were addressing the Holy Spirit in worship and then the phenomenon came. Then they invoked the Holy Spirit directly, expecting that phenomenon to come again and it does.

Well I don't think there are any praying for lying wonders. But you are mistaken if you think it is really the Holy Spirit answering their prayers or that they have really conjured him.

I am stating that although they were addressing the Holy Spirit in worship & prayer, that was not the Holy Spirit answering.

So the question is why would God allow that strong delusion to occur unless they were not heeding His words on how God the Father wants us to come to Him by and how He wants us to only honor Him by other than the Son?

They have been deceived. The angel of darkness has appeared as an angel of light. What we see in the large touring events such a Benny Hinn and even in large churches where apparent miracles occur is orchastrated and manipulated behind the scenes. (Take a gander at MacArthrur's book "Charismatic Chaos".) Don't believe everything you see.

The same evil tree that produced that evil fruit of holy laughter is the same tree that produced tongues for private use by seeking to receive the Holy Spirit by a sign.

You are stepping outside your wheelhouse there. You know nothing about me or my relationship with God.

{edited for inappropriate content}

That is not why the phenomenon occurs. That is why some engage in the activity. And you take a giant impossible leap when you say "nobody". ANd your OP is not titled say---"The Elephant in the Room", or "How Not to Worship the Holy Spirit." It is titled "Prove the fact of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son". A very confusing title, but then the opening post make it clear you are teaching that we are not to worship the Holy Spirit at all, in any way shape or form. So don't get upset with me or any one else that comes along and says that we are to worship the Holy Spirit, but not is the way of the one example you give. I agree in that example and others like it, their eyes have been taken off of Jesus, and they are seeking the marvels and miracles they believe they can call upon the Holy Spirit to give them, and the emotional high of thinking that anything their flesh does or their feelings is evidence.

It is no different than those who followed Jesus for the loaves and fishes instead of seeking him. It is no different than seeking signs and wonders upon which to rest one's faith---rather than on Christ and him crucified and risen.

But that does not preclude the correct way of worshiping the Holy Spirit. Worship is in our heart, not in fleshly displays.

I brother in India had shared with me in another Christian forum that he did not believe the holy spirit did dramatic manifestations as He did in the early days of the church until one calendar Pentecost Sunday, his church was honoring the Holy Spirit in worship when all of a sudden he felt something like liquid nitrogen seeping through his skull and he began confessing an apology to the Holy Spirit against his will for not believing He did dramatic manifestations any more.

Two things the Lord led me discern regarding that testimony;

# One; the Holy Spirit was already within him and so whatever that was seeping through his skull, was not the Holy Spirit.

# Two; God would prefer a willing apology rather than one being done against his will.

Now that article from 700 Club testified that holy laughter was breaking out across all denomination all over the world and although it does not happen in every church, it does testify that the churches are suffering a thief to break through.

That is why I see His warning about how many in these latter days are entering in the broad way and not the only narrow way provided per Matthew 7:13-14 & John 14:6 & to avoid that iniquity is to narrow the way back to the straight gate to avoid being left behind Luke 13:24-30.

 

[Arial]

It is about the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son when said practice is nowhere found in the New Testament at all but there are scriptures specifying how God the father wants us to come to him by and how He specifically wants us to honor Him by and that is by His Son.

Why are we instructed to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit? They are one. We can't have the Father except through the Son and we cannot have the Son except through the Holy Spirit. (John 3) I think you have a slightly skewed notion of what worship is. When we worship the Holy Spirit it is a gratitude and recognition of his work in placing us in the Son, and his continuing work of always pointing us to Christ. We can never truly look at the Holy Spirit without also looking at the Father and the Son. Or the Father without also looking at the Son and the Holy Spirit. Or the Son without also seeing the Father and the Holy Spirit. And all the things he does in our life are all pointing the same direction. To Christ. It is the Holy Spirit who Christ sends to us so that he does not leave us as orphans. What does James say? We have not because we ask not or we ask according to fleshly desires. We must ask. All good things come from the Father and he withholds no good thing. Our asking acknowledges that we know we depend on God for our every need. He wants us to learn this.

So who does Paul tell us in Romans 8, intercedes for us in prayer? The Holy Spirit. Who does Paul say in that same chapter we walk by and according to? The Spirit. How do we pray? According to the Spirit. The Spirit is always, always, in full complete agreement with the Father and the Son. They are all, always working together. Is it proper to ignore and deny any gratitude or thanksgiving from the Holy Spirit for what he is doing, lest we forget the Son? To do so would be to also deny the Father and the Son.

Those Charismatics you bring up as your proof, are not as you say, taking their eyes off Christ and putting them on the Holy Spirit instead. Their eyes are on neither one. Their eyes are on the signs, the miracles, the emotional high----the experience.

 

[Mr GLee]

1 John 5:7 regarding the Three Witnesses in Heaven does testify to the Triune God as that verse was originally and is scripture.

Is 1 John 5:7 not in any Greek manuscript before the 1600s? If it is true, why is it in the KJV?

Thanks I would offer. .

Two is a union. Three is a crowd

Interesting parable

Note . . .(Purple my added opinion)

1 John5-9 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? (witness of the world, what the eyes see the temporal ) This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. (the invisible witness) And it is the (unseen) Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, ( #1 who speaks ). . . the Word ( #2 spoken) , and three Holy Ghost (#3 empowering of the word. . . and it was a " good witness" ) : and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God ( not seen signified by water and blood ) ) is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

Three denotes the end of a matter .

Water and or with blood = the work Holy Spirit pouring out his Spirit life on dying flesh and blood In jeapordy of His own Spirt life . Any
form of water to represent Holy Spirit to include sweat to show the father working

Luke 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

As it were great drops denotes a parable is in view the gospel understanding.

Lifeless spiritless blood falling down to show spirit life was given and blood can return to the dust or field of clay (no dead sacrifices)

Spit is used to represent the unseen work of the father's Holy Spirit in the same way in the parable below

Mark 7:32-34King James Version32 And they bring unto him one that was deaf, and had an impediment in his speech; and they beseech him to put his hand upon him. And he took him aside from the multitude, and put his fingers into his ears, and he spit, and touched his tongue; And looking up to heaven, he sighed, and saith unto him, Ephphatha, that is, Be opened.

There are other parables also that use water and blood to represent the unseen work of Christ pouring out His Spirit life on dying flesh and blood in jeapordy of his own Spirit life .

The food of His will called hidden manna (Rev 2:17) ,. The spiritual food the disciples knew not of a first. . food to both understand the will of the father and food to empower to do it to his good pleasure

John 6:54King James Version54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

The dynamic dual. Father not seen and Son of man seen .The law of faith. (faithful Father)"Let there be" and the "Son was good " testimony of two. . .

One invisible Spirit God working in mankind displaying his glorious gospel mysteries made known .though the Son of man Jesus.

 

[Arial]

Explain how they were addressing the Holy Spirit in worship and then the phenomenon came. Then they invoked the Holy Spirit directly, expecting that phenomenon to come again and it does.

OK.

The phenomenon has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit. It is pure flesh. Emotional and/or self centered outbursts. People seeking experiences and then manifesting them for others to see. And if there is anything real in it, any real spiritual force behind it, which is sometimes the case, it is the demonic counterfeit of the Holy Spirit. The false prophet we see in Revelation.

There is nothing quite like having something explained and the response is: "Explain it."

I am stating that although they were addressing the Holy Spirit in worship & prayer, that was not the Holy Spirit answering.

So the question is why would God allow that strong delusion to occur unless they were not heeding His words on how God the Father wants us to come to Him by and how He wants us to only honor Him by other than the Son?

God is the only one who has the answer to that question as to why he would allow something. What he does tell us is that Satan prowls around looking for who he may devour and he does so as an angel of light. and that he (through false prophets and false teachers) will be in our midst and stand in our pulpits. The shepherds who place themselves over these flocks are not teaching truths, they are not equipping the people to discern the truth from the lie, and the people are deceived, easily manipulated. I don't know why you ask the question. There are many passages dealing with this in the epistles and Acts especially. Jesus brings it up. Do you want me to give them to you? I will, no problem.

It isn't so much about how God wants us to come to Him. We only come to him one way. It isn't even about worshiping the Holy Spirit, as that is not what those people are doing. They may be calling on him, and thereby taking the name of the Lord in vain, they may even think that is what they are doing. But it is not the Holy Spirit---it is simply their idea of him. I have told you. What we see in those situations in a form of mass hypnosis. What is expected is produced, but what it produces is wrong desires fed and fueled by clever manipulation, wrong doctrinal teaching, and/or pure emotion---a letting go of the mind, following the feelings and the crowd.

You are not wrong to recognize this as false---a counterfeit---and you are not wrong to recognize that eyes have been taken off of Jesus. What is incorrect is to then conclude that all worship of the Holy Spirit is taking ones eyes off Jesus and therefore is forbidden. That is all I am trying to correct here.

The same evil tree that produced that evil fruit of holy laughter is the same tree that produced tongues for private use by seeking to receive the Holy Spirit by a sign.

True. Just make sure you correctly identify the tree and don't pull out the wrong root.

If the shoe fits, you are putting it on yourself but if you were doing that which I had asked you to pray for, then why the contentions other than you are not fully discerning the spirits nor the unbiblical practice of worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.

It would really be helpful and civil, if you were to understand what I am saying and why I am saying it instead of simply lumping my disagreement with you on ONE particular point, as now belonging to the holy laugher group and therefore unable to discern the spirits and as being one that agrees with the practices of the radical Charismatics that you use as an example to not worship the Holy Spirit. Making the accusations against me that are untrue and also violate the rules (let the poster be warned). Worshiping the Holy Spirit is not unbiblical. Your reasons for saying that it is are unsound. So if you could understand why I say that, acknowledge that there is understanding, and then address that by showing me why I am in error---and do so without the irrelevancy of that particular point to holy laugher, we won't have the straw man contention you are creating.
Appreciate it, thanks.

 

[ChristB4us]

Why are we instructed to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?

In the book of Acts, that name of the Father & the Son and the Holy Ghost, is Jesus Christ. They were not doing that water baptism by saying "in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost" but in the name of Jesus Christ.

That is Who the disciples are to be identified by and to follow.

They are one.

No doubt, but that does not mean we should assume something and add to His words when His words specified the Son in coming to God the father by and honoring the Father by.

We can't have the Father except through the Son and we cannot have the Son except through the Holy Spirit. (John 3) I think you have a slightly skewed notion of what worship is. When we worship the Holy Spirit it is a gratitude and recognition of his work in placing us in the Son, and his continuing work of always pointing us to Christ. We can never truly look at the Holy Spirit without also looking at the Father and the Son. Or the Father without also looking at the Son and the Holy Spirit. Or the Son without also seeing the Father and the Holy Spirit. And all the things he does in our life are all pointing the same direction. To Christ.

That is why the Holy Spirit would defer us from looking at Himself but instead to the Son.

It is the Holy Spirit who Christ sends to us so that he does not leave us as orphans. What does James say? We have not because we ask not or we ask according to fleshly desires. We must ask. All good things come from the Father and he withholds no good thing. Our asking acknowledges that we know we depend on God for our every need. He wants us to learn this.

Some have appled Luke 11:9-13 as if we can keep asking for the Holy Spirit but no. His words testify that once received, we would never ask for the holy Spirit again les we make the father ;look evil as if He did not send us the holy Spirit the first time for knocking at the door of Jesus Christ.

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Many believers miss the obvious truth of verses 11 & 12.

So who does Paul tell us in Romans 8, intercedes for us in prayer? The Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit makes silent intercessions for us as He cannot even utter His groanings out loud.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. KJV

So how does His intercession reach the Father? By Jesus knowing the mind of the Spirit as this is in according to the will of God the father of there being only One Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus per 1 Timothy 2:5

Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

Who is that "he" that searches our hearts? The Word of God.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

This all aligns with the truths in His words in the KJV since in all Bible versions of John 16:13, the Holy Spirit cannot speak or utter anything from Himself but speaks only what He hears, therefore He is not using tongues for His private use of uttering prayers in gibberish nonsense to God. Only Jesus can present His silent intercessions to the Father.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.....

.....13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

So all prayers, including the Holy Spirit's silent intercessions, has to be presented by the Son at that throne of grace to the Father so that whenever the Father says yes to any of those intercessions, the Son answers the prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers.

Who does Paul say in that same chapter we walk by and according to? The Spirit. How do we pray? According to the Spirit. The Spirit is always, always, in full complete agreement with the Father and the Son. They are all, always working together. Is it proper to ignore and deny any gratitude or thanksgiving from the Holy Spirit for what he is doing, lest we forget the Son? To do so would be to also deny the Father and the Son.

When we acknowledged as you did that the Holy spirit would lead us & continually point us to the Son, then there is no pointing to the Holy Spirit in worship, prayer, or fellowship as we are not led by the Spirit of God to do that.

Those Charismatics you bring up as your proof, are not as you say, taking their eyes off Christ and putting them on the Holy Spirit instead. Their eyes are on neither one. Their eyes are on the signs, the miracles, the emotional high----the experience.

Explain how holy laughter broke out across the denomination as it was happening in Catholics and Protestant churches?

Somehow they suffered a thief to break through and I am testifying that when we acknowledge the definition of antichrist as "instead of Christ" then that is how the spirits of the antichrist breaks through when our eyes are off of the Son in worship which the Holy Spirit in us would never lead us to do, but the Nicene creed of 381 A.D. did and some hymns also.

I am sharing how that brother in India was not looking for a sign and yet when honoring the Holy Spirit in worship, a thief broke through as it is happening in other denominations. Believers and churches need to narrow the way back to the Son in worship to avoid being left behind.

 

[ChristB4us]

OK.

There is nothing quite like having something explained and the response is: "Explain it."

Your defense is that the phenomenon is all based on them seeking after a sign, and so I am pointing out that this phenomenon of holy laughter can occur without seeking that sign as it was happening in other denominations ... and yes, even in some Pentecostals and not just being only Charismatics.

God is the only one who has the answer to that question

One can ask the Lord Jesus Christ for wisdom & discernment.

 

[Arial]

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

You are using that Scripture to argue from silence. That would be, that if the Holy Spirit is not mentioned in that passage, that means the Holy Spirit is not to be worshiped. So I have to ask you this. Is the Holy Spirit, as the third person of the Trinity, ever excluded from the Father and the Son?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jesus meant that.

Yes, that is a true statement. But does that exclude the actions of the Holy Spirit. John 3:3 "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." 5. "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7. Do not marvel that I said to you,'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wished, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

Without that work of the Spirit, no one can come to Christ. Jesus does the work of redemption, and it is his person and work we must have faith in order to be reconciled to God, and it is the Holy Spirit who applies this work to the person. So again, there is nothing in John 14:6 that excludes the Holy Spirit.

Jesus did not forget the Holy Spirit and I believe it is to keep our eyes on the Son to avoid those spirits of the antichrist that would be suffering a thief to break through and come in to the worship place to mislead everyone thing that was the Holy spirit when it was not.

It is the Holy Spirit who keeps our eyes on Jesus, provided we keep our eyes trained on his word, for he is always teaching from his word Christ and him crucified and risen. It is this word, when correctly handled, that trains us to recognize the truth from the lie, to know good from evil. You are simply calling the fleshly displays in some Charismatic churches worshiping the Holy Spirit, when that is not actually what they are doing. They are worshiping an idea of the Holy Spirit. A wrong idea, that is a result of wrong teaching, simply believing it because it sounds right, uses scriptures to validated itself, and feels good. They are invoking the name of the Holy Spirit to get what their flesh desires. Much as many in that same group are also taught if the invoke the name of Jesus when they declare or ask, that "magic" name (an incantation really) forces God to give them what they ask for. Even though it is almost always to consume upon their own lusts. If they invoke the name of Jesus, they can do all that Jesus did.

Maybe you should give your definition of worship and we can settle the matter.

 

[Arial]

In the book of Acts, that name of the Father & the Son and the Holy Ghost, is Jesus Christ. They were not doing that water baptism by saying "in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost" but in the name of Jesus Christ.

That is Who the disciples are to be identified by and to follow.

Baptism is a ceremony, a covenant sign that one is in the new covenant community. It represents dying and being buried with Christ (immersion) and being raised to life with him, his resurrection, (coming up out of the water.) Our union with Christ is accomplished by the Holy Spirit in the new birth, by which we also come to believe, and are joined to him. Yes, it identifies us with Christ as his people. It does not exclude the Holy Spirit but includes him.

No doubt, but that does not mean we should assume something and add to His words when His words specified the Son in coming to God the father by and honoring the Father by.

When you use the scriptures you do, you do add something that isn't there. You add worship the Father and the Son but do not worship the Holy Spirit.

That is why the Holy Spirit would defer us from looking at Himself but instead to the Son.

That is what he is doing. Showing us the Son. How do you think he does that? Do you thank God for the Holy Spirit? Do you thank the Holy Spirit for placing you in Christ? Do you thank the Father for sending the Son to redeem you? Do you thank the Son for coming as one of us for the sole purpose of suffering and dying to take our place, bear our punishment, that justice and mercy might kiss? Is it possible to thank any one of the three without also weeping in gratitude for the work of all three? Is there something wrong with that? Is that worship. It absolutely is worship. And never once do the eyes or the heart, of that worshiper leave the Father or the Son or the Holy Spirit. You cannot have one without the others in worship.

Some have appled Luke 11:9-13 as if we can keep asking for the Holy Spirit but no. His words testify that once received, we would never ask for the holy Spirit again les we make the father ;look evil as if He did not send us the holy Spirit the first time for knocking at the door of Jesus Christ.

I didn't say anything about asking FOR the Holy Spirit. I do appreciate it when people read seriously attempting to comprehend what a person is saying instead of just skimming. You wasted a whole 6" of post because of doing that, addressing a straw man.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. KJV

So how does His intercession reach the Father? By Jesus knowing the mind of the Spirit as this is in according to the will of God the father of there being only One Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus per 1 Timothy 2:5

Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

Who is that "he" that searches our hearts? The Word of God.

Where exactly does it say that? And what is your point? I see you try and support your supposition but I also see things added that are not there. Easy enough to do, but when it is being used to say we should not worship the Holy Spirit, it wavers off course.

When we acknowledged as you did that the Holy spirit would lead us & continually point us to the Son, then there is no pointing to the Holy Spirit in worship, prayer, or fellowship as we are not led by the Spirit of God to do that.

I don't know where you get the idea that worship is pointing.

I gotta take a break.

 

[Josheb]

It is the likely event that this practice has crept into the Christian churches due to the modified Nicene creed of 381 A.D., I would ask anyone here to prove by the scripture "this practice" of worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.

The modified Nicene creed of 381 A.D. introduced that practice and yet there are no scriptural support for that practice, let alone teaching that is how we are to worship.

This is NOT about doubting the Holy Spirit is God NOR denying the Holy Spirit as One of the Three Witnesses within the One God.

This is about proving by the scriptures that is how God the Father wants us to honor Him & worship Him by.

As far as I can tell, across many Christian forums, nobody cares to address it nor prove it while some go off on a tangent trying to prove the Trinity doctrine as if that makes it okay to do that practice. It does not.

So the question would spin back on me and that is are there any scriptural references that would omit the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son? Are there any scriptural references that specifically cites how God the Father wants us to come to Him by and to honor Him by at the exclusion of the Holy Spirit? Yes.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

John 5:22 is a standard of judgment that is being raised and John 5:23 is that judgment. The latter part of verse 23 leaves no wiggle room for honoring the Holy Spirit because the moment we stop honoring the Son, we are no longer honoring the Father.
Then we have this. which many thinks this is only about salvation when this is how we are to come to God the Father by for anything.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

That includes prayer;

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

So how is God glorified?

John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

What is the mind of Christ we are to have in worship, in obedience?

Philippians 2;5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

That God working in us is Jesus Christ;

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:.... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Look at how the role of the Holy Spirit for why He would lead us to testify of the Son ( john 15:26-27 ) to glorify the Son ( John 16:13-14 ) not only in outward ministry but in worship as well.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

When we are instructed as such below in witnessing...

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Then that is how the Holy Spirit will serve as a witness of Jesus Christ by not speaking of Himself in seeking His own glory but of the Son in seeking His glory. Then that is how the Holy spirit will lead us in worship since the glory of God rests on His Son and that is to the glory of God the Father.

What happens when believers take their eyes off of the Son in worship & focus on the Holy Spirit?

The holy laughter movement ......even the 700 Club has been led astray in not seeing it as apostasy.

HOLY LAUGHTER: Bringing Revival To The Church?

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Why would God allow this strong delusion to occur in the churches, thinking that is the Holy Spirit coming unto them? They were honoring the Holy Spirit and it happened. Then they invoke the Holy Spirit to come again, and it happened again, thus forgetting the commandment of His invitation of John 14:6 and prayer John 14:13-14. They worshipped the Holy Spirit and so you cannot prove to them that is not the Holy Spirit.

That is why Christian churches had better narrow the way in the worship place to avoid that work of iniquity whereby spirits of the antichrist as in seducing spirits can come in and take that worship away from the Son.

And yet the real indwelling Holy Spirit would never take our eyes off of the Son in worship and so that is why that practice needs to be reproved as the Holy Spirit would not lead us to worship Himself with the Father & the Son so as to avoid the spirits of the antichrist that would come in with signs & lying wonders to cause many to go astray in these latter days where faith is hard to find.

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Do you believe the Holy Spirit indwells every regenerate Christian?