Prevenient grace?

[makesends]

So I know what I am saying goes against the flow and it may seem wrong or even unbliblcal but the thing is I actually get results that is why I know I am on the right path.


you can study the bible all you want but what is your resolve to know the truth?

I speak these things because I found the truth I found the reality of who we are in Christ I reached a level with him where is real and here to the pint that I kid you not I call him my roomate he resides with me he visits often he manifests in my room and he teaches me all kinds of amazing things.

Not because of anything that I did except for the fact that I was sick of playing Christian I was sick of all this division and confusion I wanted the real thing I refused to accept anything but what he says the truth is.

I have no wish to minimize your experience of him, but your experience of everything prior to this exercise you have found so precious, is YOUR experience, and not the same as that of anyone else. Not all of those of us who are antagonistic toward certain other people are antagonistic toward the denomination they hale from, nor even, necessarily, the doctrines they hold. Some of us recognize, and love, those who love God, regardless of where they stand on doctrine.

What you have described, to me sounds much like things I have heard from others, though yours is quite a bit more introspective or analytical of the "method". Others don't think of it as a method at all, but just love to pursue Christ, and spend huge amounts of time in reading and prayer.

To others, they don't even think of it in terms of prayer, but that their lives are one long prayer with short interruptions; when they read Scripture, they ARE praying, begging for understanding, asking for wisdom, praising him for his beauty and his heart, and so on.

There is a huge difference between purposely blanking your mind and thinking you are 'getting Christ' when your eyes are turned backwards in your head, compared to reading out of hunger for truth and out of a love for Christ that listens to him. My very favorite times in the Word come from reading whole books at a sitting. I've found God's same heart in all the 66 books, and in no others. I see parallels of passages that don't show up in any of the cross-references I have studied. One thing makes me think of another, and so on, and I see it all hangs together —in fact, that is in large part how I came to believe in things that I later found out were essentially Reformed Doctrine.

 

[Carbon]

But I am still in training not because I am in any way lacking but because I sumbit to his method not mine.

We all are and will be in training brother. And the more we learn, the more we will realize the less we know. God is unsearchable and if He didn't condescend to our level, we would know nothing of Him.

I cannot stress enough how highly I hold the word of God I actually am very offended when I see people treat it so casually against each other and sadly this is a major issue within the body in fact this forum out of all the forums I have been to is only the second one I have seen where we all come together talk learn and enj oy each others presence

Most others.... it's like bloodshed the thing about being online is that people tend to show who they truly are what they really think and believe because there is security of being behind a screen that is actually a thing that the mind does.

Well, I would hope that the Christians on this form will stand firm in defending God's word.

So seeing the state of the church in all the places I have been seeing how casually the word of God is thrown around as if it isn't the holy and undeniable righteous words of God himself well I wasn't going to accept that.

The church is in a bad state.

So it is not that I am discounting the scriptures but the method of which we understanding it is the issue.

Okay

 

[Agra Man]

He gave you a stern look when you interrupted Him teaching. Wow. What does He look like?

Im sorry for the late reply I took a nap. What he looked like is basically how you imagine him he had brown long hair and he was wearing a white robe not pure white but kind of what yousee him wearing in movies and stuff just a bit more fitting on him not as loose. But his eyes though that is the part that got me his shining blue eyes are mesmorizing when you look intot hem you can get lost in it the eyes are the window to the soul and the puriity within them


However I am wondering if he appeared as I would imagine he would look as I have others say he has green eyes but most usually do agree he has long brown hair.

 

[Agra Man]

I have no wish to minimize your experience of him, but your experience of everything prior to this exercise you have found so precious, is YOUR experience, and not the same as that of anyone else. Not all of those of us who are antagonistic toward certain other people are antagonistic toward the denomination they hale from, nor even, necessarily, the doctrines they hold. Some of us recognize, and love, those who love God, regardless of where they stand on doctrine.

What you have described, to me sounds much like things I have heard from others, though yours is quite a bit more introspective or analytical of the "method". Others don't think of it as a method at all, but just love to pursue Christ, and spend huge amounts of time in reading and prayer.

To others, they don't even think of it in terms of prayer, but that their lives are one long prayer with short interruptions; when they read Scripture, they ARE praying, begging for understanding, asking for wisdom, praising him for his beauty and his heart, and so on.

There is a huge difference between purposely blanking your mind and thinking you are 'getting Christ' when your eyes are turned backwards in your head, compared to reading out of hunger for truth and out of a love for Christ that listens to him. My very favorite times in the Word come from reading whole books at a sitting. I've found God's same heart in all the 66 books, and in no others. I see parallels of passages that don't show up in any of the cross-references I have studied. One thing makes me think of another, and so on, and I see it all hangs together —in fact, that is in large part how I came to believe in things that I later found out were essentially Reformed Doctrine.

They aren't just my experiences I have met several people who speak of the exact same things one of which I got a message from today and he told me about his time of worhsip with God he experienced the same things I did at the beginning of this year and trust me there is going to be more there is a spiritual awakening of sorts going on, the church is slowly waking up it is only a small heart beat right now but it is going to keep growing and more and more are going to be waking up to his truth.

The method I speak of in it's core is if you want the truth I mean the real truth to know him on a whole other level if you want wisdom if you want anything that involves him then yes Jesus is the only way and you have to go to him directly you have submit to him utterly and completely you make him not just your savior but your Lord.


That word Lord is not a word to be taken lightly it is a title one that demands respect and reverence you cannot in that instant grasp the depth of the Lordship of God your in a place of holiness with him and this is where you are changed.

Maybe you might consider the things I am saying. They aren't normal you don't hear people talking like that ones first instinct might be to see red flags but actually think about the things I am saying if the fruits I am sharing here speak to you in any way maybe consider what made it where I reaped such fruits.

I share all of this because I want to bring others into this reality with him there is a level of depth a position with him that we only hear about and he is calling us to it into a much deeper much higher realm with him like a graduation of sorts.

and it is something that not everyone will seek after and it also is one of utter trust in him he brings you into the great unknown with him the deeper things and it is also going to bring you out of your comfort zone it is going to test your resolve and yet the things he teaches you and shows you are beautiful

 

[Agra Man]

I hope I did not seem rude or arrogant in any way I get excited speaking of the things he has done and I can get a little carried away as you can see from that long post I do apologize.

 

[Agra Man]

We all are and will be in training brother. And the more we learn, the more we will realize the less we know. God is unsearchable and if He didn't condescend to our level, we would know nothing of Him.



Well, I would hope that the Christians on this form will stand firm in defending God's word.

The church is in a bad state.

Okay

Yes you are absolute right in fact you described him and our understanding of better than I could.I am wondering though what are your thoughts personally on the talk of method in which I am speaking of. Mainly my method if I didn't explain it well is to be going directly to Jesus before reading the word.

For me I go to him directly I spend time with him first until I feel him say I am ready then I read the word and it is like reading it for the first time.

 

[makesends]

They aren't just my experiences I have met several people who speak of the exact same things one of which I got a message from today and he told me about his time of worhsip with God he experienced the same things I did at the beginning of this year and trust me there is going to be more there is a spiritual awakening of sorts going on, the church is slowly waking up it is only a small heart beat right now but it is going to keep growing and more and more are going to be waking up to his truth.

The method I speak of in it's core is if you want the truth I mean the real truth to know him on a whole other level if you want wisdom if you want anything that involves him then yes Jesus is the only way and you have to go to him directly you have submit to him utterly and completely you make him not just your savior but your Lord.


That word Lord is not a word to be taken lightly it is a title one that demands respect and reverence you cannot in that instant grasp the depth of the Lordship of God your in a place of holiness with him and this is where you are changed.

Maybe you might consider the things I am saying. They aren't normal you don't hear people talking like that ones first instinct might be to see red flags but actually think about the things I am saying if the fruits I am sharing here speak to you in any way maybe consider what made it where I reaped such fruits.

I share all of this because I want to bring others into this reality with him there is a level of depth a position with him that we only hear about and he is calling us to it into a much deeper much higher realm with him like a graduation of sorts.

and it is something that not everyone will seek after and it also is one of utter trust in him he brings you into the great unknown with him the deeper things and it is also going to bring you out of your comfort zone it is going to test your resolve and yet the things he teaches you and shows you are beautiful

I'm going to say here, what probably several of us are thinking. What you describe skates very close to the edge of what others have experienced which turned out to be demonic entities. I'm not saying it was that, nor that you are wrong. I'm saying be very careful. If anything you experience turns out to be contrary to scripture, do not give it your heart, and turn away from it, and ask God (don't ask the entity) to reveal the truth. NEW truth does not happen. New understanding does.

 

[makesends]

Remember, God does not 'answer to form'. Moses saw only a little, and was overwhelmed, and himself hard to look at for the brightness that remained. When we see him as he is, we will be changed. Not here.

 

[Carbon]

I'm going to say here, what probably several of us are thinking. What you describes skates very close to the edge of what others have experienced which turned out to be demonic entities. I'm not saying it was that, nor that you are wrong. I'm saying be very careful. If anything you experience turns out to be contrary to scripture, do not give it your heart, and turn away from it, and ask God (don't ask the entity) to reveal the truth. NEW truth does not happen. New understanding does.

Great point. Scripture is complete. There is no more prophecy, no more prophets. God communicates through His written word. As what all things are tested by.

 

[Eleanor]

No I don't give theology any thought. how to best explain it.... it is like because all I see in what I am after is the turth just Jesus not any theology or understanding of doctrine just the truth just him I feel like a clean slate inside free from any chains of theology or understanding that I am after in the scriptures he jkust flows it into me there is no blockage of any of my beleifs or understanding himand I just naturally synce together now.

Keeping in mind that faith has an object, the what that we believe, and we are to understand the faith so that we can give the reason for the hope that is in us (1 Pe 3:15).
This could be one of the Scriptural measures of your experience if you do not grow beyond experience into understanding of God's word written.

 

[Agra Man]

I'm going to say here, what probably several of us are thinking. What you describes skates very close to the edge of what others have experienced which turned out to be demonic entities. I'm not saying it was that, nor that you are wrong. I'm saying be very careful. If anything you experience turns out to be contrary to scripture, do not give it your heart, and turn away from it, and ask God (don't ask the entity) to reveal the truth. NEW truth does not happen. New understanding does.

Yes I could tell that was how some were thinking. and yes one does have to be careful because even if you walk with God in this way the enemy will attempt to seem as if something is from God he mimics and corrupts a wise man gladly recieves rebuke a fool rejects it.the things of God.

But I also am not above correction and more than that a wise man glady recieves rebuke and correction a fool rejects it.

I also want to mention that this isn't about the spiritual experiences experiences is one thing but the place he brought me to with him how I used to wonder what this joy of the Lord really is what this authroity he says we stand in and the reality of himself that is what I am learning. I pay attention to the fruits not just in myself or the fruits of the spirit but the results that come.

If I was only into the spiritual experiences like all these people who were thinking it was from God but it was actually demonic that would be really bad. But the fruits that have come from the journey he is leading me on the way he filles me with his joy where I can't help but dance for him how I am no longer wondering about this authority he speaks of and how I have seen some of the people who did recieve the things I am talking about the spark he made in them the way some have suddenly jumped from being in the state with him that they were in while not bad but not the joy ous life hge speaks of to suddenly having just that with him.

There is nothing I have ever seen more beautiful than when he makes that spark in peoples hearts how he ignites that fire and life in them and he has shown me a river of rainbow colors that was so beautiful all I could do was in my tearrs from the beauty of it was thank him over and over but still it doesn't compare to the beauty that he does in peoples hearts.

 

[Agra Man]

Keeping in mind that faith has an object, the what that we believe, and we are to understand the faith so that we can give the reason for the hope that is in us (1 Pe 3:15).
This could be one of the Scriptural measures of your experience if you do not grow beyond experience into understanding of God's word written.

Yes you are absolutely correct I have seen how the experiences are just the starting point but as you contionue on with him even though you have read scriptures so many times before suddenly it is like the scales fall off your eyes sudden;ly the word ofGod opens up it just suddenly clicks

 

[ReverendRV]

Yes you are absolutely correct I have seen how the experiences are just the starting point but as you contionue on with him even though you have read scriptures so many times before suddenly it is like the scales fall off your eyes sudden;ly the word ofGod opens up it just suddenly clicks

Hey, how are you enjoying the Forum? When you're a little different from most Posters here, it can kind of feel like you're the Belle of the Ball; and your Dance-Ticket is full...

So let's dance for a minute. What do you know about Sound Hermeneutics?

 

[Agra Man]

Hey, how are you enjoying the Forum? When you're a little different from most Posters here, it can kind of feel like you're the Belle of the Ball; and your Dance-Ticket is full...

So let's dance for a minute. What do you know about Sound Hermeneutics?

Oh I am enjoying it honestly I am so used to being attacked because of the things I say I have a fear of seeming arrogant or rude or well basically everything others have said about me calling me a false prophet beating me down with scripture not even considering what I am saying they just instantly look for red flags or things that make it seem unbiblical when I am trying to get them to actually pay attention to the things spoken look past the intial layer.

And I admit I don't nromally care to much if people act like that but you however I feared more than anyone else you might think I am a bit off as I respect you and respect is earned not entitled it is not easy to earn my respect. I will treat you with respect but the respect for the person themselves that has to be earned.

 

[Agra Man]

Also a few others on here have earned my respect as well there are many wise councils here

 

[ReverendRV]

Oh I am enjoying it honestly I am so used to being attacked because of the things I say I have a fear of seeming arrogant or rude or well basically everything others have said about me calling me a false prophet beating me down with scripture not even considering what I am saying they just instantly look for red flags or things that make it seem unbiblical when I am trying to get them to actually pay attention to the things spoken look past the intial layer.

And I admit I don't nromally care to much if people act like that but you however I feared more than anyone else you might think I am a bit off as I respect you and respect is earned not entitled it is not easy to earn my respect. I will treat you with respect but the respect for the person themselves that has to be earned.

I think this Forum is more well-behaved, than other Forums I've been in. So I encourage All Posters to continue being Civil...

Hermeuetics is the Theological word for 'Ways to interpret the Bible'. Sound Hermeneutics are the better ways to interpret Scripture. The Church at Large, accepts the need for the Bible to be Interpreted Soundly...

I think the Prime Hermeneutic is called 'Sola Scriptura'; this means 'Scripture Alone'. Scripture Alone is the Rule used to resolve All Spiritual Disputes. The Prime Hermeneutic is; 'Scripture is best understood through using All of the Bible, to come to the correct interpretation of the Bible'...

For instance; I know some Christians who think the most important way to understand the Bible, is to understand the Bible through the Lens of "God is Love". When this is their Prime Hermeneutic, because the Bible says, "Esau I have Hated"; those Christans do not believe the Bible, but would prefer to believe God Loves even Esau. ~ The Love of God cannot be the Prime Hermeneutic we use to understand the Bible, or the Bible doesn't mean a thing...

Do you agree?

 

[Agra Man]

I think this Forum is more well-behaved, than other Forums I've been in. So I encourage All Posters to continue being Civil...

Hermeuetics is the Theological word for 'Ways to interpret the Bible'. Sound Hermeneutics are the better ways to interpret Scripture. The Church at Large, accepts the need for the Bible to be Interpreted Soundly...

I think the Prime Hermeneutic is called 'Sola Scriptura'; this means 'Scripture Alone'. Scripture Alone is the Rule used to resolve All Spiritual Disputes. The Prime Hermeneutic is; 'Scripture is best understood through using All of the Bible, to come to the correct interpretation of the Bible'...

For instance; I know some Christians who think the most important way to understand the Bible, is to understand the Bible through the Lens of "God is Love". When this is their Prime Hermeneutic, because the Bible says, "Esau I have Hated"; those Christans do not believe the Bible, but would prefer to believe God Loves even Esau. ~ The Love of God cannot be the Prime Hermeneutic we use to understand the Bible, or the Bible doesn't mean a thing...

Do you agree?

That interesting I have never that word before. I do know all to well the camp of sola scripture and I have yet to see this method do anything other than cause constant back and forths verse going against another each person believing they have it right while refusing to accept the other persons reasoning. But many of these people don't seem to know that God is spirit and he is not just in the bible so if you speak of anything that doesn't have to do with their sola scripture well it doesn't end well.

And yes there are those who see it through what they call the love of God but if it causes them to reject a part of the word of God is that really what the love of God is? Hell for instance, I wish more than anything that it isn't eternal that the worm doesn't die is speaking about something else but just because I ache for that doesn't mean that is how it is.

And honestly interpretation never seems to do the job and for me at least I find it to be so much easier to understand the word of God by what he says it means not what I think it means.

 

[ReverendRV]

That interesting I have never that word before. I do know all to well the camp of sola scripture and I have yet to see this method do anything other than cause constant back and forths verse going against another each person believing they have it right while refusing to accept the other persons reasoning. But many of these people don't seem to know that God is spirit and he is not just in the bible so if you speak of anything that doesn't have to do with their sola scripture well it doesn't end well.

And yes there are those who see it through what they call the love of God but if it causes them to reject a part of the word of God is that really what the love of God is? Hell for instance, I wish more than anything that it isn't eternal that the worm doesn't die is speaking about something else but just because I ache for that doesn't mean that is how it is.

And honestly interpretation never seems to do the job and for me at least I find it to be so much easier to understand the word of God by what he says it means not what I think it means.

Amen...

Though I push Sola Scriptura, you should find me pretty Reasonable. Sola Scriptura as a Hermeneutic can be summed up in, "Jesus Loves me, this I know; for the Bible tells me so..."

The Bible 'Telling us so', is the second Prime Hermeneutic...

I think we can all agree on this...

Perhaps the second Prime Hermeneutic is, "All Scripture is good for Doctrine". Doctrine is the word for Teaching. As a Hermeneutic, can we think of a Doctrine that 'some Verses' in the Bible are Bad for the Doctrine?

For instance; the Bible Commands Jews to Sacrifice two Goats at the Temple on the Day of Atonement. Is there a Verse in the Bible that's bad for the Doctrine of the Jewish Day of Atonement? Yes. Jesus said not one block of the Temple will be left standing...

That Verse is bad for Old Covenant Doctrine...


Jesus left the temple area and was going on His way when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. But He responded and said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.” - Matthew 24:1-2 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew24:1-2&version=NASB

 

[Eleanor]

Amen...

Though I push Sola Scriptura, you should find me pretty Reasonable. Sola Scriptura as a Hermeneutic can be summed up in, "Jesus Loves me, this I know; for the Bible tells me so..."

The Bible 'Telling us so', is the second Prime Hermeneutic...

What is the first prime hermeneutic?

I think we can all agree on this...

Perhaps the second Prime Hermeneutic is, "All Scripture is good for Doctrine". Doctrine is the word for Teaching. As a Hermeneutic, can we think of a Doctrine that 'some Verses' in the Bible are Bad for the Doctrine?

For instance; the Bible Commands Jews to Sacrifice two Goats at the Temple on the Day of Atonement.

The Bible commands Jews to sacrifice one goat at the Temple on the Day of Atonment.
The second goat is not sacrificed.

Is there a Verse in the Bible that's bad for the Doctrine of the Jewish Day of Atonement? Yes. Jesus said not one block of the Temple will be left standing...

That Verse is bad for Old Covenant Doctrine..."

How is it "bad" for Old Covenant Doctrine?

Jesus left the temple area and was going on His way when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. But He responded and said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.” - Matthew 24:1-2 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew24:1-2&version=NASB

 

[Agra Man]

Amen...

Though I push Sola Scriptura, you should find me pretty Reasonable. Sola Scriptura as a Hermeneutic can be summed up in, "Jesus Loves me, this I know; for the Bible tells me so..."

The Bible 'Telling us so', is the second Prime Hermeneutic...

I think we can all agree on this...

Perhaps the second Prime Hermeneutic is, "All Scripture is good for Doctrine". Doctrine is the word for Teaching. As a Hermeneutic, can we think of a Doctrine that 'some Verses' in the Bible are Bad for the Doctrine?

For instance; the Bible Commands Jews to Sacrifice two Goats at the Temple on the Day of Atonement. Is there a Verse in the Bible that's bad for the Doctrine of the Jewish Day of Atonement? Yes. Jesus said not one block of the Temple will be left standing...

That Verse is bad for Old Covenant Doctrine...


Jesus left the temple area and was going on His way when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. But He responded and said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.” - Matthew 24:1-2 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew24:1-2&version=NASB

You see this is a great example of how sola scripture should be you just keep on impressing me.