Prevenient grace?

[Ritajanice]

Correction: Your personal / Denominational theological INTERPRETATION of God's Living Word disagrees with me.

I don't mind that at all.

Please address the scripture,@Bob Carabbio ?

What about those who have never read a bible, just had a little education at school , when RE existed...how would they know they were in sin?

My opinion/ belief....you can’t possibly know you are / have been living in sin ,why, because were in ignorance/ blinded to God’s truth...God is Holy / Pure and Perfect, ...he is SINLESS !!....and for one to know that about God, they must be “ Birthed In The Spirit “ there is NO sin in God and there is no sin in the spirit of a Born Again, it’s our old sin nature that causes us the problem, after being birthed in the Spirit.....that’s why there is a battle between spirit and flesh....after we become born again, it gets easier as we grow in the Spirit of Christ......Period!.

It’s the old sin nature of ours that wants to sin, not our spirit ,as it’s been birthed into Christ/ Holy Spirit.

The Spirit is willing but the flesh is weak...flesh imo ,is our old man....we have that new man....Praise God for that!!

What other way is there to interpret this scripture, it’s clear for all to see.

1 Corinthians 2:14​

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King James Version​

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14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[brightfame52]

Grace goes before to give Faith !

Grace goes before to give Faith ! Thus making salvation to be solely of God's Grace Eph 2:8 to be saved by grace through faith, is all of grace, even the Faith is of grace, for believers believe through or by means of grace, the very grace we are saved by Acts 18:27

27And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

Also the word believed in this scripture is in the perfect tense , denoting the permanency of their believing, they will always believe.

Now in addition there are many scriptures that allocate faith to the grace of God, though they are ignored or wrested to give man the glory. The proud sinner will not bow to God in that He is Sovereign in Salvation, even in who believes, and those who do not yet confess this, are still not taught of God. We will look at some text that absolutely teach the Sovereignty of God in who Believes, even though I am sure they will be assailed.

 

[Ritajanice]

Grace goes before to give Faith !

Grace goes before to give Faith ! Thus making salvation to be solely of God's Grace Eph 2:8 to be saved by grace through faith, is all of grace, even the Faith is of grace, for believers believe through or by means of grace, the very grace we are saved by Acts 18:27

God brings us to faith, we are drawn to Jesus by God, no one can come to the Father, except through the Son, it’s by grace that we are birthed in the Spirit and is NOT of our doing.

Impossible to birth ourselves in the Holy Spirit.

All Praise belongs to God, when it comes to being birthed in the Spirit ....a miracle birth....through his mercy and grace are we saved from eternal damnation.

 

[brightfame52]

Not as "Unlearned" as: "People were born again before Christ died,"!!

Since NOBODY WAS CLEANSED OF THEIR SIN, or indwelled by the Holy Spirit until after Calvary, how, then could they have been "Born again".

Yes people were born again before Christ died. John 1:11-13

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Jn 17:8

For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Do you deny that the disciples Christ is here praying for and stated that they received the words of God, and believed in Him, you deny they were born of God, even after what Jn 1:12-13 says ?

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes people were born again before Christ died. John 1:11-13

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

This is starting to make sense.

We were born again before the creation of the world, is that right?

God knows everyone of his Born Again Children and who they will be, long before we became Born again?

He knew we would believe and receive him into our hearts, by the rebirth..that he ordained, is that the right word?..ordained?

King James Bible
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them

 

[brightfame52]

ritajance

We were born again before the creation of the world, is that right?

No I dont believe the scripture teaches that, however it teaches that those who shall be born again were chosen in Christ before the world began, and were given grace in Christ Jesus before the world began Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy[born again] and without blame before him in love:

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

God knows everyone of his Born Again Children and who they will be, long before we became Born again?

Now thats True

He knew we would believe and receive him into our hearts, by the rebirth..that he ordained, is that the right word?..ordained?

All who believe in Jesus Christ had been ordained previously to eternal life Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

 

[Ritajanice]

ritajance



No I dont believe the scripture teaches that, however it teaches that those who shall be born again were chosen in Christ before the world began, and were given grace in Christ Jesus before the world began Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy[born again] and without blame before him in love:

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,


Now thats True


All who believe in Jesus Christ had been ordained previously to eternal life Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Yes..Amen!!...thanks for explaining!..

 

[brightfame52]

Yes..Amen!!...thanks for explaining!..

One more tidbit if you dont mind, those who were ordained to eternal life Acts 13:48 has to do with them being heirs, they are to receive an inheritance, so eternal life was promised to them before the world began

Titus 1:2

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

So thats when they were ordained to eternal life, before the world began !

 

[Eleanor]

I thought I'd stand beside an Arminian and hope the lighting bolt was only strong enough to take out one of us.


Exactly .... add everyone, everybody .... and the ambiguous word WORLD

Still standing. . .not singed, are you?

 

[Eleanor]

This is starting to make sense.

Love hearing that!

We were born again before the creation of the world, is that right?

God knows everyone of his Born Again Children and who they will be, long before we became Born again?

He knew we would believe and receive him into our hearts, by the rebirth..that he ordained, is that the right word?..ordained?

King James Bible
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them

God decreed before the foundation of the world whom he would rebirth, as he decreed before the foundation of the world that Jacob would be the father of Israel (Ro 9:10-13).

 

[Ritajanice]

Love hearing that!

God decreed before the foundation of the world who he would rebirth, as he decreed before the foundation of the world that Jacob would be the father of Israel (Ro 9:10-13).

Amen!!!..

 

[Manfred]

Plenty of the "Unregerates" in the Old Testament pleased God nicely

Bob, you need to extrapolate on HOW they pleased God, and why you say they were not regenerated.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me.
Psa 51:12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation, and uphold me with a willing spirit.

David confirms the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and salvation, and therefore it cannot be excluded from the other "hero's" of the faith.

As per inspired Paul, Abraham was justified.

Therefore Romans 8:8 is not contradictory and speaks of unregenerate man. Those who's works are like filthy rags.

 

[Ritajanice]

Bob, you need to extrapolate on HOW they pleased God, and why you say they were not regenerated.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me.
Psa 51:12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation, and uphold me with a willing spirit.

David confirms the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and salvation, and therefore it cannot be excluded from the other "hero's" of the faith.

As per inspired Paul, Abraham was justified.

Therefore Romans 8:8 is not contradictory and speaks of unregenerate man. Those who's works are like filthy rags.

Amen!!...this scripture is referring to the “ unregenerate” imo/ belief.

Romans 8:8-10​

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King James Version​

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8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.