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Prevenient grace?

Think of it as Grace always preceding the Will. Grace is like the Starting Gates at a Horse Race; the Gates have to open before the Horses can run. After Grace? The horses are free to run. Before Grace? The horses are not free to run; no matter how much they are chomping at the Bit...

This means it's true we're Totally Unable to Will to run the race of Salvation as to win the Prize; until Grace fires it's Starting Pistol. Before Grace, we're at Enmity with God; and refuse to run the race...
So it is kind of how he calls people or rather draws us to him that is how it was for me anyway I actually never went to church or anything but when I did want to get saved somehow I knew that I had to be will;ing to give up everything to follow him it took me at my lowest where my life was pointless and everything I owend in my life was just trash to me..

I don't know if that is how it is suppose4d to be for everyone but I couldn't just come to him or else it would have been fake it wasn't until He thought I was ready.
 
So it is kind of how he calls people or rather draws us to him that is how it was for me anyway I actually never went to church or anything but when I did want to get saved somehow I knew that I had to be will;ing to give up everything to follow him it took me at my lowest where my life was pointless and everything I owend in my life was just trash to me..

I don't know if that is how it is suppose4d to be for everyone but I couldn't just come to him or else it would have been fake it wasn't until He thought I was ready.
Arminian Prevenient Grace is said to be the Illumination of God, shinning in a Dark Place; IE our hearts. It Efficaciously gives Sight to the Spiritually Blind Sinner. The difference between Arminius' Doctrine of Prevenient Grace and Calvin's Doctrine of Irresistible Grace; is that Prevenient Grace is for the Spiritually Blind, and Irresistible Grace is for the Spiritually Dead. But in either Case, the Total Inability of the Lost is true; until Grace has had it's way...
 
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Arminian Prevenient Grace is said to be the Illumination of God, shinning in a Dark Place; IE our hearts. It Efficaciously gives Sight to the Spiritual Blind Sinner. The difference between Arminius' Prevenient Grace and Calvin's Irresistible Grace; is that Prevenient Grace is for the Spiritually Blind, and Irresistible Grace is for the Spiritually Dead. But in either Case, the Total Inability of the Lost is true; until Grace has had it's way...
Wow that is fascinating thanks for that you got any other golden nuggets by chance:unsure:
 
Wow that is fascinating thanks for that you got any other golden nuggets by chance:unsure:
I would say it's true that the Lost are both Spiritually Blind to God and Spiritually Dead to God. Being Spiritually Dead, means we need to first be Born Again; in order to stop having Enmity against God, as the Walking Dead. So I side with Calvinism...
 
I would say it's true that the Lost are both Spiritually Blind to God and Spiritually Dead to God.
Thats called, the natural man.
Being Spiritually Dead, means we need to first be Born Again; in order to stop having Enmity against God, as the Walking Dead. So I side with Calvinism...
(y)
 
I would say it's true that the Lost are both Spiritually Blind to God and Spiritually Dead to God. Being Spiritually Dead, means we need to first be Born Again; in order to stop having Enmity against God, as the Walking Dead. So I side with Calvinism...
The Living Dead ~ by ReverndRV * November 2

Ephesians 2:1+2 ESV
; And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—

History is filled with the stories of Night Walkers. Vampires ruled the nights and people were afraid to go out in the evening. Later there were stories about Mummies coming to life thru the power of an ancient curse. Now our society is consumed by a different kind of Night Walker; Zombies, the walking dead. It’s not such a far-fetched premise; the Bible talks about a few who have been raised from the Dead. None of these though were menacing figures; for instance, Lazarus was the friend of Jesus. ~ When Paul wrote these verses, he was talking about another kind of the living dead; you and me. There was no one else more alive than Adam and Eve but God said the day they ate fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they would surely die. They did eat the fruit but to our surprise they lived for hundreds of years after that; even though a part of them did die that day. ~ They were the first walking dead in history…

Because of this, we are born as members of the walking dead. This may be hard to believe but if we met Adam before he Sinned, we would be frightened because of how alive he was; like when people in the Bible were frightened of Angels after they met them. Imagine being more afraid of the walking Living than of the walking dead? ~ Have you ever told a Lie? What would you call someone who Lied to you? A Liar, right? Have you ever Stolen ‘anything’? What would you call someone who Stole your car? A Thief, right? Have you Honored your father and mother? Did you ever give your mother a reason to cry? The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil represents the Moral Law of God; the Ten Commandments. So far you have taken three bites out of the apple and you’ve learned what Good is; through being Evil. If God judged you by this Standard would you be innocent or guilty? Would you go to Heaven or go to Hell?

You’ve eaten from the same Tree as they did; to God you are a Night Walker! What you need is to be raised from the dead. ~ For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting Life. Jesus Christ is the only other person who is as alive as Adam and Eve were, but he took the form of a servant and had no beauty that we should desire him. His Soul was attractive though because he was born Sinless, and he grew in Wisdom. Only he was Good enough to please God and to be the Savior of the world. He shed his blood on a Cross for the Remission of Sin, and was buried; but he arose from the grave as the Author of Life. We’re Saved by the Grace of God through Faith in the risen Savior Jesus Christ, without Works lest we boast. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God and start going to Church; and read the Bible. ~ We fear Death; as seen in our fascination with the Dead. Fear of the Living God is even greater; the beginning of Wisdom…

1st Samuel 2:6 NIV; "The LORD brings death and makes alive; he brings down to the grave and raises up.

@Eleanor
 
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Arminian Prevenient Grace is said to be the Illumination of God, shinning in a Dark Place; IE our hearts. It Efficaciously gives Sight to the Spiritually Blind Sinner. The difference between Arminius' Doctrine of Prevenient Grace and Calvin's Doctrine of Irresistible Grace; is that Prevenient Grace is for the Spiritually Blind, and Irresistible Grace is for the Spiritually Dead. But in either Case, the Total Inability of the Lost is true; until Grace has had it's way...
I like the way you think. personally calvanist charasmatic nondenominational in the end we are children of God no stance we take or what branch we are in matters it is the heart just like everything else in both life and in
God's kingdom the heart is always the deciding factor.
 
I like the way you think. personally calvanist charasmatic nondenominational in the end we are children of God no stance we take or what branch we are in matters it is the heart just like everything else in both life and in
God's kingdom the heart is always the deciding factor.
Amen Brother...

I hope you enjoy this Forum 😃

I've been on Forums like this for well over 15 years, and I've written over 366 Gospel Tracts. In that time, I've learned how to say a mouth-full, in one to three paragraphs...
 
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I like the way you think. personally calvanist charasmatic nondenominational in the end we are children of God no stance we take or what branch we are in matters it is the heart just like everything else in both life and in
God's kingdom the heart is always the deciding factor.
Tell that to @Eleanor 😅
 
Well considering I just realized how long I have been on here I would say I enjoy it a lot.
You are the kind of Poster I was hoping would congregate here; you're Reasonable...

Thanks Dennis...
 
I would say it's true that the Lost are both Spiritually Blind to God and Spiritually Dead to God. Being Spiritually Dead, means we need to first be Born Again; in order to stop having Enmity against God, as the Walking Dead. So I side with Calvinism...
They are blind because they are dead.
 
The Living Dead ~ by ReverndRV * November 2

Ephesians 2:1+2 ESV
; And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—

History is filled with the stories of Night Walkers. Vampires ruled the nights and people were afraid to go out in the evening. Later there were stories about Mummies coming to life thru the power of an ancient curse. Now our society is consumed by a different kind of Night Walker; Zombies, the walking dead. It’s not such a far-fetched premise; the Bible talks about a few who have been raised from the Dead. None of these though were menacing figures; for instance, Lazarus was the friend of Jesus. ~ When Paul wrote these verses, he was talking about another kind of the living dead; you and me. There was no one else more alive than Adam and Eve but God said the day they ate fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they would surely die. They did eat the fruit but to our surprise they lived for hundreds of years after that; even though a part of them did die that day. ~ They were the first walking dead in history…

Because of this, we are born as members of the walking dead. This may be hard to believe but if we met Adam before he Sinned, we would be frightened because of how alive he was; like when people in the Bible were frightened of Angels after they met them. Imagine being more afraid of the walking Living than of the walking dead? ~ Have you ever told a Lie? What would you call someone who Lied to you? A Liar, right? Have you ever Stolen ‘anything’? What would you call someone who Stole your car? A Thief, right? Have you Honored your father and mother? Did you ever give your mother a reason to cry? The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil represents the Moral Law of God; the Ten Commandments. So far you have taken three bites out of the apple and you’ve learned what Good is; through being Evil. If God judged you by this Standard would you be innocent or guilty? Would you go to Heaven or go to Hell?

You’ve eaten from the same Tree as they did; to God you are a Night Walker! What you need is to be raised from the dead. ~ For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting Life. Jesus Christ is the only other person who is as alive as Adam and Eve were, but he took the form of a servant and had no beauty that we should desire him. His Soul was attractive though because he was born Sinless, and he grew in Wisdom. Only he was Good enough to please God and to be the Savior of the world. He shed his blood on a Cross for the Remission of Sin, and was buried; but he arose from the grave as the Author of Life. We’re Saved by the Grace of God through Faith in the risen Savior Jesus Christ, without Works lest we boast. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God and start going to Church; and read the Bible. ~ We fear Death; as seen in our fascination with the Dead. Fear of the Living God is even greater; the beginning of Wisdom…
1st Samuel 2:6 NIV; "The LORD brings death and makes alive; he brings down to the grave and raises up.

@Eleanor
Did you call?

Yes, God commanded the man to receive law in his command regarding the tree.
 
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You are the kind of Poster I was hoping would congregate here; you're Reasonable...

Thanks Dennis...
Tell that to my family for me maybe they can be reasoned with by you but no sadly not likely.

And honestly the only reason aside from God that I am even remotely reasonable is because I had fantastic teachers I saw what not to do and what not to be.
 
Well the thing is free will is a thing. free will by definition means you choose your course of action and the consaquences are on you because you decided good or bad we all have to own up to our own decisions.

If the elect only were to be saved then free will doesn't matter or exist yet we clearly can choose whether to sin or not, we can choose to follow his leading or not.
I'm not sure where you stand, here. I see you believe in something you call 'free will'. But so far, all I see you meaning by it, is the same as "real choice". If you are Arminianistic you will think some of the things you have said here obviously imply something that I don't see implied. For example, the Arminian thinks that if God predetermines (decides) our very choices, then we obviously are nothing more than robots or puppets. Therefore, (thinks the Arminian), it is either we, or God, who is to blame, or credit, for deciding a thing, and not both.


But at the judgement throne no one will be without excuse it even says so in scripture if the elect only were chesn then those not chosen would have an excuse to give.
Not to mention that the gospel was preached to everyone and all with the call to repent and come to Christ even
Jesus went into towns where surely he knew he would not be recieved by many but he did anyways and he spoke to everyone when he spoke not some in the crowd or certains ones all of them many of which would recoice in his death.

His elect is also not those he prechose it is refering the the Jews, remember the gospel of salvation was originally for them but they rejected it and Jesus so it was given to the gentiles eho in the eyes of the jews were to be avoided and considered unclean.
You say: "But at the judgement throne no one will be without excuse it even says so in scripture if the elect only were chosen then those not chosen would have an excuse to give." Where does Scripture say that? Romans 9 does (rhetorically) mention them claiming an excuse, but nowhere to my knowledge does it say that they have any valid excuse concerning the matter.
 
I'm not sure where you stand, here. I see you believe in something you call 'free will'. But so far, all I see you meaning by it, is the same as "real choice". If you are Arminianistic you will think some of the things you have said here obviously imply something that I don't see implied. For example, the Arminian thinks that if God predetermines (decides) our very choices, then we obviously are nothing more than robots or puppets. Therefore, (thinks the Arminian), it is either we, or God, who is to blame, or credit, for deciding a thing, and not both.



You say: "But at the judgement throne no one will be without excuse it even says so in scripture if the elect only were chosen then those not chosen would have an excuse to give." Where does Scripture say that? Romans 9 does (rhetorically) mention them claiming an excuse, but nowhere to my knowledge does it say that they have any valid excuse concerning the matter.
I have never heard of this sect before and if they believe that God predermines our choices then they are sorely mistaken. He makes a perfect example of this in how he made things work

As I states before we choose to sin and if their belief was the case that would implay God made them sin it seems more like a cop out from being responsible for their actions.

And yes it may be a rheteric mention but it is still a mention and he wouldn't have mentioned it if it were not from God otherwise we can just say that it was just that a rhetorical mention but then if that is case then why was he speaking about it so seriously don't forget he wasn't just talking about the judgement throne there is a whole them to it

Also you will find that I speak in both scriptural terms and general terms meaning I see and understand the workings of his works how he has made creation even us to speak of it.

Even the concept of of hard work is built into our body.

Think of how the human muscle works in order to be made stronger it has to be torn and built up again torn and built up again it requires dedication and hard work to do. This is also how he is he values hard work he tears down builds all the time.



To be fair I do apologize if I get off topic that sadly is part of my brain damage and if I get talking about a subject I can accidently go another direction.

And if regardless I did mention that I wasn't saying any of this as a matter of fact it was my perspective. I prefer discussing the things of God and getting everyone into discussions rather than debates so a lot of the things I say are not set in stone take it with a grain of salt.
 
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