Praying for the unsaved?

[donadams]

@donadams



Thats false, He came by the decree and purpose of God before mary had existence Isa 7:14

14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Please give us a break with that foolishness

Looks like You are rejecting the reformers!

 

[donadams]

Mary was betrothed to Joseph which was binding. The angel told Joseph to take Mary for a wife. To be married in the 1st century it was required on the wedding night to consummate the marriage, usually at the wedding in a tent, or there was no Marriage. It had to be recorded in the Temple.

Marriage is according to consent and consummation is not required or Adam and ever were not married in the garden of Eden?

Why are you rejecting the reformers?

Thanks

 

[brightfame52]

Why do the saved need to be converted?

To follow Christ, thats the fruit of His death, to live by faith. You didnt know that ? Thats basic Christianity

 

[Soyeong]

To follow Christ, thats the fruit of His death, to live by faith. You didnt know that ? Thats basic Christianity

That is true of those who are saved, but doesn't explain why you think that those who are saved need to be converted.

 

[brightfame52]

That is true of those who are saved, but doesn't explain why you think that those who are saved need to be converted.

I did tell you, dont lie on me. You may not agree with it

 

[Soyeong]

I did tell you, dont lie on me. You may not agree with it

If you don't want to tell me, then you have the freedom to refrain from doing that.

 

[brightfame52]

If you don't want to tell me, then you have the freedom to refrain from doing that.

So be it

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I was in a Church where one of the members argued 'it's vain to pray for the unsaved because God has already predestined his own to salvation and no amount of prayer will change that.

The pastor there would add a corrective and say, 'yes, but God uses means, and you might be those means He has ordained'

Do you pray for the unsaved? Why/why not?

Because we're told to.

 

[prism]

What did the Reformers say on the topic?
Sources please.

Marriage is according to consent and consummation is not required or Adam and ever were not married in the garden of Eden?

Why are you rejecting the reformers?

Thanks

 

[donadams]

What did the Reformers say on the topic?
Sources please.

Immaculate conception:

“I esteem immensely the Mother of God, the ever chaste, immaculate Virgin Mary.” Zwingli


Perpetual Virgin:

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

Note: an article of faith is required for salvation.

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).

 

[prism]

Immaculate conception:

“I esteem immensely the Mother of God, the ever chaste, immaculate Virgin Mary.” Zwingli


Perpetual Virgin:

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

Note: an article of faith is required for salvation.

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).

Praise God the Reformation is about 'semper reformanda'.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus didn't pray for the non elect reprobate world that obviously He didn't die for Jn 17:9

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

His followers should follow His example in this.

 

[prism]

Jesus didn't pray for the non elect reprobate world that obviously He didn't die for Jn 17:9

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

His followers should follow His example in this.

So, tell me, how would you know beforehand if an unsaved person isn't also an 'elect' person? After all we were all unsaved at one time.

 

[Rockerduck]

Marriage is according to consent and consummation is not required or Adam and ever were not married in the garden of Eden?

Why are you rejecting the reformers?

Thanks

Study the 1st century wedding during Jesus's ministry. Don't jump back to Genesis.

 

[prism]

@donadams @Rockerduck and myself, we need to remind ourselves of the topic at hand... praying for the unsaved,
not marriage.

 

[brightfame52]

So, tell me, how would you know beforehand if an unsaved person isn't also an 'elect' person? After all we were all unsaved at one time.

I dont know ! But what does that have to do with praying that the Lords will be done ?

 

[prism]

I dont know ! But what does that have to do with praying that the Lords will be done ?

In post #92, you said 'Jesus didn't pray for the nonelect, and we should follow His example, you said nothing about praying 'the Lord's will be done'.

Or are you saying we shouldn't pray at all for the unsaved, and instead say 'the Lord's will be done'?

 

[brightfame52]

In post #92, you said 'Jesus didn't pray for the nonelect, and we should follow His example, you said nothing about praying 'the Lord's will be done'.

Or are you saying we shouldn't pray at all for the unsaved, and instead say 'the Lord's will be done'?

Right, If Jesus didnt pray for them, His followers shouldnt neither

 

[donadams]

Praise God the Reformation is about 'semper reformanda'.

Do you believe the dogma?

Mother of God?
Immaculate conception?
Perpetual virgin?

 

[prism]

Do you believe the dogma?

Mother of God?
Immaculate conception?
Perpetual virgin?

Nice try, see post #97, this thread is about whether or not one is convicted to pray for the unsaved.
Start your own thread on RCC dogma.