Praying for the unsaved?

[ReverendRV]

@ReverendRV


Okay and you know this how ?

I wouldn't say I know it %100, but I side with those who think Agrippa was Cursed by God to die. King Nebuchadnezer was Cursed by God; but lived, and may be Unconditionally Elect...

Agrippa? Not so much. He didn't become a Christian the day Saint Paul prayed for him. All signs point to his Reprobation, especially under Arminian Soteriology; he didn't persevere to the End. A tree is known by it's fruit; I feel safe to say he died a Reprobate...

Thanks for asking. I would add; a Calvinist may want to deny we know Agrippa was Reprobate, because Saint Paul prayed for him. Those Calvinists deny we should pray for the Salvation of anyone who isn't Elect. But I tell you, a Calvinist can pray for the World; as Saint Paul did...

Eaten By Worms: Comparison between Acts 12:23 and Death of the Persecutors 33-35 | CSCO

When asked if I wanted to write an article for this blog about worms, I was hooked. It is one of my favorite parts in my dissertation and I cannot get tired of talking about Galerius and how his groin got eaten by worms from the inside out. But first things first: In quite a

www.christianorigins.div.ed.ac.uk

 

[brightfame52]

I wouldn't say I know it %100, but I side with those who think Agrippa was Cursed by God to die. King Nebuchadnezer was Cursed by God; but lived, and may be Unconditionally Elect...

Agrippa? Not so much. He didn't become a Christian the day Saint Paul prayed for him. All signs point to his Reprobation, especially under Arminian Soteriology; he didn't persevere to the End. A tree is known by it's fruit; I feel safe to say he died a Reprobate...

Thanks for asking. I would add; a Calvinist may want to deny we know Agrippa was Reprobate, because Saint Paul prayed for him. Those Calvinists deny we should pray for the Salvation of anyone who isn't Elect. But I tell you, a Calvinist can pray for the World; as Saint Paul did...

Eaten By Worms: Comparison between Acts 12:23 and Death of the Persecutors 33-35 | CSCO

When asked if I wanted to write an article for this blog about worms, I was hooked. It is one of my favorite parts in my dissertation and I cannot get tired of talking about Galerius and how his groin got eaten by worms from the inside out. But first things first: In quite a

www.christianorigins.div.ed.ac.uk

Believers dont know who the elect are nor the reprobate. Now if one comes to faith in Christ, they were elect, if one never comes to faith they were of the reprobate. Also an elect may hear the gospel in 2015 and reject it, then in 2022 they hear it and receive it, so we cant judge one reprobate because they reject the gospel, it may not be Gods time for them to believe, however, until that time I would consider them a christian brother or sister without them believing the gospel.

 

[donadams]

The messiah came thru Mary’s intercession!

Our salvation!

And we continue to intercede for sinners!

Mary is was the immaculate conception?

The pure of heart shall see God. Matt 5:8

Because of Her immaculate Conception and being filled with the plenitude of divine grace Mary from her mother’s womb saw the beatific vision of God in heaven on His throne, and was consumed with love and desire for God and His will, she dedicated and consecrated and sacrificed her entire being to Him forever, and began interceding and imploring God’s grace and mercy!
And the coming of the messiah the savior of the world!

The pure of heart shall see God. Matt 5:8

 

[brightfame52]

@donadams

The messiah came thru Mary’s intercession!

Thats false, He came by the decree and purpose of God before mary had existence Isa 7:14

14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Please give us a break with that foolishness

 

[Rockerduck]

The messiah came thru Mary’s intercession!

Our salvation!

And we continue to intercede for sinners!

Mary is was the immaculate conception?

The pure of heart shall see God. Matt 5:8

Because of Her immaculate Conception and being filled with the plenitude of divine grace Mary from her mother’s womb saw the beatific vision of God in heaven on His throne, and was consumed with love and desire for God and His will, she dedicated and consecrated and sacrificed her entire being to Him forever, and began interceding and imploring God’s grace and mercy!
And the coming of the messiah the savior of the world!

The pure of heart shall see God. Matt 5:8

Mary was betrothed to Joseph which was binding. The angel told Joseph to take Mary for a wife. To be married in the 1st century it was required on the wedding night to consummate the marriage, usually at the wedding in a tent, or there was no Marriage. It had to be recorded in the Temple.

 

[brightfame52]

The only time its appropriate to pray for the unsaved, is when we pray for the unconverted elect, because God will eventually give them repentance. However the non elect, He has decreed their damnation ! He sends them a strong delusion to believe a lie so that they may be damned 2 Thess 2:11-12

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness

 

[Soyeong]

I was in a Church where one of the members argued 'it's vain to pray for the unsaved because God has already predestined his own to salvation and no amount of prayer will change that.

The pastor there would add a corrective and say, 'yes, but God uses means, and you might be those means He has ordained'

Do you pray for the unsaved? Why/why not?

What do they think is the point of Jesus instructing to spread the Gospel it it won't change who believes it? The pastor is exactly correct. It is better to pray that God will lead us to live in a way that will convict the unsaved.

 

[brightfame52]

What do they think is the point of Jesus instructing to spread the Gospel it it won't change who believes it? The pastor is exactly correct. It is better to pray that God will lead us to live in a way that will convict the unsaved.

The Gospel is sent to the saved so they will believe it. It converts the saved

 

[Arial]

What do they think is the point of Jesus instructing to spread the Gospel it it won't change who believes it? The pastor is exactly correct. It is better to pray that God will lead us to live in a way that will convict the unsaved.

First question. Because people must believe the gospel in order to be saved. And they cannot believe what they have not heard. Romans 10:13-17

Second question. Convict them of what?

 

[Soyeong]

First question. Because people must believe the gospel in order to be saved. And they cannot believe what they have not heard. Romans 10:13-17

Second question. Convict them of what?

Of sin.

 

[Soyeong]

The Gospel is sent to the saved so they will believe it. It converts the saved

Why do the saved need to be converted?

 

[Arial]

Of sin.

And what purpose would their being convicted of sin serve?

BTW living a righteous and pious life does not convict others of their sin. Usually they are laughed at and considered dull fuddy duddies who don't know how to have fun and don't want anyone else to have fun either. They are often referred to in a negative way as self righteous or holy than thou.

 

[Soyeong]

And what purpose would their being convicted of sin serve?

BTW living a righteous and pious life does not convict others of their sin. Usually they are laughed at and considered dull fuddy duddies who don't know how to have fun and don't want anyone else to have fun either. They are often referred to in a negative way as self righteous or holy than thou.

So that they will repent from their sin. There are some who are convicted and it is better to pay that God will use us to convict them than simply to pray that God will change their mind. We are instructed to let our light shine before all men that others may see our good deeds and give glory to the Father (Matthew 5:13-16).

 

[Arial]

So that they will repent from their sin. There are some who are convicted and it is better to pay that God will use us to convict them than simply to pray that God will change their mind. We are instructed to let our light shine before all men that others may see our good deeds and give glory to the Father (Matthew 5:13-16).

Oh right. You do not consider faith in the person and work of Jesus of any importance, just behaving like Him and even that is up for grabs as all are saved irregardless?

But the OP is about praying for the unsaved. I don't think anyone does pray that God would change anyone's mind. From what to what?
They pray for their salvation. To hear and believe the gospel.

 

[prism]

It is better to pray that God will lead us to live in a way that will convict the unsaved.

Sort of like Noah, with only 8 convinced to enter the ark after 100 years?

 

[Soyeong]

Sort of like Noah, with only 8 convinced to enter the ark after 100 years?

There are certainly ways to more actively evangelize than praying for someone, but when praying for someone's salvation, it is better to pray that God will lead us live in a way that convicts them than that they will change their mind.

 

[Soyeong]

Oh right. You do not consider faith in the person and work of Jesus of any importance, just behaving like Him and even that is up for grabs as all are saved irregardless?

But the OP is about praying for the unsaved. I don't think anyone does pray that God would change anyone's mind. From what to what?
They pray for their salvation. To hear and believe the gospel.

Jesus is God's word made flesh, so us embodying God's word is the way to put our faith in the person and work of the one who is the embodiment of God's word. God is trustworthy, therefore what He has instructed is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so it is contradictory to think that we should trust in God for salvation, but should not obediently trust in what God has instructed for salvation. In Proverbs 3:5-7, we have a choice between whether we are going to lean on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own eyes or whether we are going to trust in God with all of our heart to correctly divide between right and wrong through obeying what He has instructed, and this is what it means to have faith in God alone. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20). In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments.

Praying that someone will God will change there mind in regard to believing the Gospel.

 

[Arial]

Jesus is God's word made flesh, so us embodying God's word is the way to put our faith in the person and work of the one who is the embodiment of God's word. God is trustworthy, therefore what He has instructed is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so it is contradictory to think that we should trust in God for salvation, but should not obediently trust in what God has instructed for salvation. In Proverbs 3:5-7, we have a choice between whether we are going to lean on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own eyes or whether we are going to trust in God with all of our heart to correctly divide between right and wrong through obeying what He has instructed, and this is what it means to have faith in God alone. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20). In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments.

Praying that someone will God will change there mind in regard to believing the Gospel.

Are you saying it is good works of obedience and charity that are the way to be saved?
What do you say the gospel is?
What did Christ do on the cross and why was it necessary?

 

[Soyeong]

Are you saying it is good works of obedience and charity that are the way to be saved?

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we do not become saved as the result of having first obeyed God's law, getting to have the experience of living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically part of the concept of him saving us from having the experience of not getting to live in obedience to it.

What do you say the gospel is?

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which is a light to the nations, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message and the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Titus 2:14). If anyone shares the extremely positive view of getting to obey God's law that is expressed in the Psalms, then they will see that message as being very good news.

What did Christ do on the cross and why was it necessary?

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we are not required to have first done those works in order to become saved as the result and we are not required to do those works as the result of having faith been saved, but rather God graciously training us to have the experience of getting to do those works is itself the content of His gift of saving us from having the experience of not getting to do those works. Again, Titus 2:14 states that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so it was necessary for him to pay the penalty for our lawlessness and to set us free from all lawlessness so that we could be fee to enjoy the experience of getting live in obedience to God's law.

 

[prism]

There are certainly ways to more actively evangelize than praying for someone, but when praying for someone's salvation, it is better to pray that God will lead us live in a way that convicts them than that they will change their mind.

The Gospel should be sufficient...

Romans 1:16
I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew, then to the Greek.